Do you really believe your Koran? It is a bunch of DOGMA! It is 
what keeps your people POOR, IGNORANT and SUBSERVANT. You sick 
ass holes are stuck in the same crap you were in 2000 years ago. 
DONT YOU THINK IT'S A CLUE???? You spout off about satin. You 
sick fucker YOU ARE SATIN!!!!!!!!!!!! Any ass hole who thinks 
war is holy is a sick misguided idiot! Wake up you stupid towel 
head! Why the fuck do you run around with a stinking dirty towel 
on your head any way? You look like a baby with the diaper on 
the head! You are an arrogant sick imbecile! Your stupid rock is 
no better than anyone else s! Wake up! You have your head stuck 
in a book written by a religious FREAK!!! The whole world is 
sacred. Not just your stupid rock you call home!! Fuck off you 
stupid ass hole. Get a grip! You idiots have been pissing at 
each other since the beginning of time. Nothing has changed! I 
am sick of the Holier than thou Muslims and Jews!!! Fuck you and 
your fucking religions!!!! Do you really think you will have 
virgins and plentiful fruit in paradise?? What a fucking 
IDIOT!!! You really believe that fairy tale??!! You are OUT OF 
YOUR FUCKING MIND. Get off the damn drugs!! you bunch of poppy 
headed idiots!!!!!!! YOU ARE GOING TO YOUR OWN LITTLE HELL!! you 
sick fucker

One Word:Paxil

kklkl

Another word:Straightjacket

ROFL@Paxil.  Good one, Walter.

To the person posting under the name God's son.  Your ignorance 
is just as profound as you claim theirs to be.  2000 years ago 
was the time of Christ...not Mohammed, he came later.

Both the Jewish people and the Muslim people worship the SAME 
God that you profess to be son of.  God's REAL son would never 
have spoken to God's followers the way you just did.  And, the 
Bible cautions us against judging others...that job is assigned 
to Jesus.  Only he can determine who will burn in hell.  I 
believe that he is a forgiving Lord, I hope that you will 
someday grow up and see that everything in the world is not 
black and white.

1.In a free society such as the United,  
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe,without repercussions 
from said goverments or society in general?(by  "repercussions", 
we are refering to imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or even 
death.)

I don't know about any other country but I do know that it is a 
historical fact the the United States was founded, in a big part, 
on the premise of Freedom of Religion (NOT freedom FROM religion 
as many have been brainwashed to believe today.)  Nowhere in the 
constitution is the phrase or even the idea of separation of 
church and state indicated.  What is mandated is that the 
government will not interfere with the people's free excercise to 
worship God (or not, if they so choose.)  If they choose to 
worship other gods, this, too, is there constitional right.  The 
government is also prohibited from setting up a government run 
religion.

2.In societies that control freedom of said choices;what is the 
purpose of that control over society?

Societies that restrict or control the practice of religion do so 
to divert the people's desire to answer to a higher authority 
than themselves.  There is a deep seated desire in the human 
psyche to answer to a power higher than themselves.  God designed 
us that way and, like it or not, it is the search for this power 
that drives most human pursuits.  The leaders of these 
restrictive societies understand that if you eliminate all the 
competition they have much better control.   Hitler knew, 
acknowledged and played on this during his rise to power.  The 
document portion below can be found using the following 
link...see for yourselves.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca/nca-01/nca-01-07-means-30.html

6. SUPPRESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCHES 

A. The Nazi conspirators sought to subvert the influence of the 
churches over the people of Germany. 

(1) They sought to eliminate the Christian Churches in Germany. 

(a) Statements of this aim. Martin Bormann stated in a secret 
decree of the Party Chancellery signed by him and distributed to 
all Gauleiters 7 June 1941: 

     "Our National Socialist ideology is far loftier than the 
con- 

                                                                                                         
[Page 264] 

     cepts of Christianity, which in their essential points have 
been taken over from Jewry ***. A differentiation between the 
various Christian confessions is not to be made here *** the 
Evangelical Church is just as inimical to us as the Catholic 
Church. *** All influences which might impair or damage the 
leadership of the people exercised by the Fuehrer with the help 
of the NSDAP must be eliminated. More and more the people must be 
separated from the churches and their organs the pastors. *** 
Just as the deleterious influences of astrologers, seers and 
other fakers are eliminated and suppressed by the State, so must 
the possibility of church influence also be totally removed. *** 
Not until this has happened, does the state leadership have 
influence on the individual citizens. Not until then are the 
people and Reich secure in their existence for all time." (D-75)


3.Regarding the war on terror;how do you feel about the relation 
between current affairs of now,and Isaac and Ishmael of old.Or 
does it relate?

There is definitely a relationship here.  These conflict in the 
middle east come from origins of thousands of years.  Not only 
between Isaac and Ishmael but also between Isaac's son's Esau and 
Jacob.

***
The following quote comes from a commentary to be found using the 
following link:

http://gospelcom.net/shofar/pp/until/until.php

Though the Palestinians want Jerusalem for the capital of their 
own Palestinian state, Palestine, God's word teaches that the 
Jewish people will end up in Jerusalem with this city as their 
eternal political and religious capital, forever (Psalms 
132:13-14; Ezekiel 37:24-28; and Zechariah 1:14-17).

Ezekiel 35 and Obadiah are both prophecies of a people in the 
last days that come to power with the purpose of eliminating the 
Jewish state and its people. The people described in these 
passages are the Palestinian people of today, descendants of the 
Edomites, Esau.

What we are witnessing today in Israel, the struggle between the 
Israelis and the Palestinians, is the precursor to these 
scriptures being completely fulfilled. Since it has never been 
just like it is today, seemingly in lock-step with the word of 
God, Arafat's every action and word move us closer to the time of 
fulfilled prophecy.
***

I have included the portion of scripture that describes the birth 
of the fore fathers of both Israel and Palestine.  You may look 
up the preceding scriptures in any Bible and read for yourselves 
the prophecies stated therein.

Genesis 25:19-23  And these [are] the generations of Isaac, 
Abraham's son: Abraham begat Isaac:  And Isaac was forty years 
old when he took Rebekah to wife, the daughter of Bethuel the 
Syrian of Padan-aram, the sister to Laban the Syrian.  And Isaac 
entreated the LORD for his wife, because she [was] barren: and 
the LORD was entreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.  
And the children struggled together within her; and she
said, If [it be] so, why [am] I thus? And she went to inquire of 
the LORD.  And the LORD said unto her, Two nations [are] in thy 
womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy 
bowels; and [the one] people shall be stronger than [the other] 
people; and the
elder shall serve the younger.  And when her days to be delivered 
were fulfilled, behold, [there were] twins in her womb.  And the 
first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they 
called his name Esau.  And after that came his brother out, and 
his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: 
and Isaac [was] threescore years old when she bare them.  And the 
boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and 
Jacob [was] a plain man, dwelling in tents.  And Isaac loved 
Esau, because he did eat of [his] venison: but Rebekah loved 
Jacob.  And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and 
he [was] faint:  And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, 
with that same red [pottage]; for I [am] faint: therefore was his 
name called Edom.  And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy 
birthright.  And Esau said, Behold, I [am] at the point to die: 
and what profit shall this birthright do to me?  And Jacob said, 
Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold his 
birthright unto Jacob.

Esau  = Edom = Palestine
Jacob = Isreal


As a final note to add to yet another posting I read this morning 
by Missin'.  Christ did die for us, for all of us, not just 
a fractional few.  He died the death he did so that the 
prophecies of old would be fulfilled and that those who chose to 
search, see and believe might be saved from their own sin.

Thanks for the firm stand Missin' .

Smiley,
Thanks so much for upping that post.  I'm finding the biblical 
references very helpful in broadening my understanding of why 
there is such continual unrest between the Palestinians and 
Israel...much more so than just the history of the Zionists and 
the creation of the state.

It does sadden me though, that God would have set brother 
against brother so many times in eternal unrest.  Again, I have 
to accept that his ways are not my ways.  And, trust that 
everything will work out in the end to his Glory.  But, it's 
heartbreaking all the same.

And, you are very welcome.  I only wish that there didn't have 
to be so much hatred in the world.

it will probably take us a few more days to respond ourselfs.
we are happy for those of you who are responding to our 
questions.it is interesting.
again,we thank you.

In answer to your query, I've heard nothing reported myself 
regarding any suspected British fatalities on either the B.B.C 
or British Sky Broadcasting News (an official sister station 
affiliated to the Fox News Network in the U.S.) since the date 
you mentioned. IF...it has been reported, it hasn't been made 
into a conspicuous news item to my knowledge. The passing of a 
former Beatle member had grabbed all the headlines over the week-
end.

In the act of scanning through the papers however I found 3 
items, one an alarming report, and 2 opinions one pro-War 
(former MP Robert Kilroy-Silk) and anti-War (freed British 
reporter Yvonne Ridley) , which I'll relay verbatim. These 
latter two iems, Om/cf, I'll have to leave until my next posting.


News Report: Dated Dec 1 2001 (Daily Express, Tabloid U.K.)

"I trained to bomb British Parliament"

A man held by police in India has claimed to be part of a plot 
to crash a passanger jet into the Houses of Parliament (London).

Mohammed Afroz said he took flying lessons in Britian, the 
United States and Australia to prepare for the attack, spending 
more than 150,000 in British Sterling. Police arrested Afroz in 
Bombay more than a month ago as part of the worldwide round-up 
of suspected worldwide terrorists.

The Asian Age newspaper reports that local investigators are not 
sure when the attack was intended to take place and are unsure 
how much credibility to give to the claim. Afroz was also found 
with documents using the last name "Afridi". He confessed to 
taking lessons at the same Florida flight school that trained 
the hijackers who crashed four U.S. airliners on Sept 11, 
including 2 into the World Trade Centre and 1 into the Pentagon.

But police in India said they had not yet found evidence of a 
link to terror leader Osama Bin Laden and the Al-Qeada network 
held responsible for the U.S. attacks. Bombay police recovered 
an "American Crdit Card" from Afroz and a passport with visas 
from Australia, Britain, Thailand and the United States, 
according to the newspaper. Afroz arrived in New Delhi on 
September 12 - the day after the suicide hijacks - and then 
moved to Bombay.

Above, is the report in its entirety. The newspaper editorial 
voiced its own opinion on 3 of its stories, 1, was the Asylum 
Issue, 2, the death of George Harrison and the above. The paper 
comments as follows;

Titled: Why we are still in peril.

The arrest of a terrorist suspect in India appears to confirm 
our worst fears. Mohammed Afroz claims he learned to fly at the 
same Florida avaition school as September 11 hijacker Mohammed 
Atta so that he could crash an aircraft into the Houses of 
Parliament.

If we thought that Britian was not a target of terrorists in the 
same way that the U.S has been we were wrong. This underlines 
once more the need to maintain extra vigilance and tighten 
security measures at home. Even with all eyes on Afghanistan and 
with the events of September 11 begining to sink into the memory 
we must never forget that the threat here remains ever present.

The speed with which the Taliban are crumbling in Afghanistan 
must not fool us into believing that those scheming further 
attacks on Western capitals have stopped doing so. Even if Osama 
Bin Laden is killed or captured the Al-Qaeda network of 11,000 
recruits and it's cells in more than 50 countries will be 
operating.

As Mr Afroz in India reminds us, it takes only one fanatic to 
wreak horrific destruction. That is why security at home must 
never take second place to the war abroad. 

Unfortunately this type of strife goes all the way back to the 
garden.  The first murder was comitted by the 2nd generation; and 
why? Because of jealousy, selfishness and pride.  

It was not God, really, that set them against each other, it was 
sin.  God, however, did know, through his omnipotence, that these 
two brothers (and their descendents) would struggle right up 
until the last trumpet sounds.  It is all in the Book and 
undeniable.  I was a marginal believer most of my life but as 
these last years have unfolded and fallen step for step with 
prophecies made hundreds, and even thousands of years ago, I 
cannot deny the signs of the times.  

I agree with you that it is painful to see so much strife in the 
world today.  It is not how God intended it to be.  Again, most 
of it comes from...jealousy, selfishness and pride.

I can't wait to see the replies given.

Dear Smiley,

I'm not sure how much I agree with you.  I'd like to, believe 
me.  But, if you've read the Left Behind series of books, you'll 
see some of the prophecies of the end times promise terrible 
things to those who were not raptured.  Ordinary people 
tortured, massacred, the world torn apart.  The reason given in 
the books for these things are that they serve as a last wake-up 
call for people to come to God in their hearts.

The secular world...and sin...are compelling and beautiful in 
appearance.  How else can God compete when we can't see, hear or 
touch him in our everyday lives?  I think that it's 
possible...and maybe even probable that these brothers were set 
against each other so that the prophecies might unfold before 
our eyes giving ample proof of God before the end times.  A last 
chance to convince non-believers that he is very real.  Not 
necessarily his kind and loving side, but certainly his very 
powerful side.

What do you think?  

How old are you? 12 maybe? You certainly proved how ignorant you 
are. If you are older than 12 you better seek help as soon as 
possible.

1.In a free society such as the United 
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe,without 
repercussions from said goverments or society in general?
(by  "repercussions", we are refering to 
imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or even death.)

In any given democracy, the constitution protects individuals 
from other individuals. 
In the old world (since the Greeks, who invented these very 
principles) this principle was called bound liberty.
The democracy protects its' citizens only as long as these 
same citizens respect it's civil laws (and therefore each 
individuals' fellow citizen) and of course its' constitution.
In return the citizen who respects the lawmaker is protected 
by the very state.
The latter is the base of the very existance of the state, in 
wich laws are made by chosen representatives from these 
same citizens.
In the antique form of democracy, anyone actively going 
against the constitution OR not respecting law, was sort of 
placed "outside of" it.

Most Western democracies have never been confronted 
with religious groups that are potentially anty-democratic or 
able to bring political instability.
Lately however, an Immans in Europe has, for instance, 
openly declared to have understanding for the punishment 
of homosexuals.
Luckily he will probably be sentenced to jail for a few 
months, since homosexuals are treated like other citizens 
over there, unlike in Muslim states...

Then: 

Amsterdam, the Netherlands, november 29th:
The mayor of Amsterdam has received an official letter from 
rabbi Dr. R. Evers-Emden about the capitals' police forces' 
attitude.  
For years it has neglected complaints about anti-semitic 
behaviour by arabic speaking youths.
It has now become impossible for the rabbis' children to 
visit sinagog without being attacked and harassed by the 
same youths.
In the fifth, consecutive year of his complaining the rabbi has 
decided to launch an official complaint, finally...


What we want to say by this, dear E.S.D., is that a 
democracy can only offer freedom as long as it is not used 
against others with equal rights.
A society should give us all freedom but at the same time 
protect us from others who abuse it.
Most democracies are extremely reluctant to "adress" in a 
political or legal sense, religious groups, political parties or 
ethnic groups from within their society, simply because their 
freedom is guaranteed by its' very constitution.
As soon as these groups' behaviour becomes politically 
destabilising or a clear and proven danger to others (like, 
say, a nazi-statement)....
than that may change.  






2.In societies that control freedom of said choices;what is 
the purpose of that control over society?

Stability, in political, social and most importantly, 
economical favour of its' regime.
That is why it is not unusual for a regime to die, together 
with a head of state...
Usually, the constitution is also fully in favour of the regime, 
in contrast to a democracy where it is made for citizens.
When not, it is mostly manipulated. 
...Like elections in most these forms of state.




3.Regarding the war on terror;how do you feel about the 
relation between current affairs of now,and Isaac and 
Ishmael of old. Or does it relate?


Regarding the above, we think it not a good idea to relate to 
matters "of old". 
We rather see the democratic side of the world take its' 
responsibilities toward anyone posing a threat to it, instead 
of getting its' values get corrupted by propaganda in any 
religions' name.
We do not think this war relates to Isaac and Ishmael of old.
We are also convinced that it is better the other side in this 
war keep its' religious motivations to itself.
These religious motivations are getting more racist by the 
day. 
And we should be careful not to get dragged in to these 
religous visions.


This is about extreme violence, the abuse of a religion, vile 
propaganda,
the accumulation of poor peoples' frustrations, and the well 
organised canalisation of the resuting hatred towards for 
instance the U.S.A....

For even if our enemies were half the worlds' population, 
this cannot be tolerated in a modern, human world, 
for it would simply mean the end of it.




We excuse for our elaborate answers and for not answering 
them directly...


We highly value your posts, for none of us we think have 
come closer to the core of the matter as you have, so far...



From Europe, this was Radio Europe... 

  

Eagle, you posted:

Ive had my eye on those Cinema Displays since Internet 
World LA 
1999 !!! But alas, they say they cant be run on a pc ..... I 
envision instead of my dual 17" viewsonic flat screens 
connected 
to the Matrox G450 dualhead video card ..... two 24" Cinema 
Displays, mounted FLATLY on the wall :-)

Baaaangaaaaa!

I have never seen a better monitor picture than those 
demo'd at 
IW that day in 99 .... from a basic ATI graphics card no less - 
very cool stuff - hope your havin fun.

Thanks for the content!




Radio says:
...There's a gizmo, made by a company called "Dr. Bott" that 
allows you (and us too, by the way), to connect this baby to 
any computer)...

Gamin's freakin' orgastic on this thing...  Believe us,


RRRRRRadio Europe, from europe, hah

From: Missin' 
To: Ashraf 
Subject: Jesus 
Date: Wed Dec 5 02:11:28 2001 
Message:

Ashraf,


"Please don't try to interpret the Bible to serve your own 
agenda".




He has his Imman and Koran to do that for him...

Radio europe

Your Post:

"If only you knew who the real terrorists were, you'd know 
why 
they havent yet been arrested..."

You know that the brains behind all this do not reside in 
Palestine,

Radio Europe...




"Both Israel and the US make me sick, with their double 
faced 
policies.. and individuals, with their single tracked minds.. 
How the hell can any President be personally targeted..??"

Simply trying to protect his citizens from terrorists would do 
enough, we suppose, to make him a possible target...

Radio Europe...



"The US and Israeli acts are now the acts of terror.. 
Remember when I defined Terrorisim earlier as being 
anything/anyone who is an Anti-American/Anti-Jew? I guess 
I 
wasnt wrong now.. was I..?"

You were, wait and see what happens if terror strikes in 
Europe...

Oh, and by the way Ashraf, your attitude towards Jews is 
called racism over here...
We do not condemn muslims for their race. 
We despise their religion, because all too often it is 
politically active un an un-democratic, anti-progressive, anti 
multi-cultural manner.
As soon as their numbers reach "critical-mass" be it in 
Africa, India, Balkan states, Phillipines, Chechnia or 
wherever...

Radio Europe...  


"You are so blind.. Its sometimes DAMN funny.. yet I aint 
smiling..."

We are sorry for that, but we didn't post for the purpose of 
making you smile...

Radio Europe, from Europe, Good Night...

I am Catholic since birth, but prefer to be more SPIRITUAL 
versus religious.   I think too many religions use their own 
versions of bible, koran, etc. to their own liking.  My own 
experience is that MOST of these "holy rollers"  that dont miss 
a Sunday of Mass are the meanest, selfish sons of bitches 
around.  Biggest bunch of hyporcrites.  Not to say that ALL of 
them are like that, but I think religion breeds bad bedfellows.

From: om/cf 
To: all 
Subject: Premature Ejaculation 
Date: Wed Dec 5 07:21:34 2001 
Message:

"Maybe Isreal should leave the Palisinians alone. Seems 
like
half the time the suicide bombers make it a true suicide. 
Well
at least the last fellow got the bomb out of the house, but..."

But what if you're blamed fot his death in the end?

Radio Europe, From Europe...


but wait....   it  better like maybe seem half suicide bombers 
got the house out premature ejaculating at least the bomb 
to mecca?  

From: EagleEye 
To: ALL 
Subject: Nukes need no longer be out of the question 
Date: Tue Dec 4 21:27:46 2001 
Message:

"NEW YORK    Three months after the World Trade Center 
attack, 
victims' families are being forced to face the ghastly 
possibility that many of the dead were "vaporized," as the 
medical examiner put it, and may never be identified."

So I guess vaporizing terrorists is now an even handed 
retaliation ...... they selected jet fuel, we choose 
particles...... the difference is?"


The cost... and no-one left to send the bill for the airliners, 
the Pentagon and Twin Towers...

P.S. So what do you reckon the joint insurors would offer for 
his head?


Radio Europe...

Eagle,

"And let us not  forget ......... our new oil friend... Russia.  
Not real sure they are as Arab friendly as they might once 
have 
been.  So that'd likely be USA, Britain and Russia ..... and if 
it got really bad, Germany, Italy, Australia.  AND .... if it 
got really, really bad ...... the push of a few buttons makes 
baqarat out of all that fucking sand.  Interesting a Jew 
unleashed the science that will likely wipe out the Arabs .. in 
the long run.  Quite an Irony I say."

And let us not forget China, who are -to their extreme dislike- 
only beginning to experience trouble with Muslims. And who 
are only too eager to take part in a "new order" on world 
energy...

And let us not forget hydrogene, a form of energy that is right 
now getting its' biggest boost,  ever...


From Europe, Radio Europe...

Where was any GOD on September 11th?  What kind of god would 
allow hardworking people to meet such horrendous deaths. If you 
knw some of these victims loved ones like I do and see what they 
are going through, you would question God too.  He must have 
been asleep at the fucken wheel then!  Fuck Christmas too.  I 
dont mind if people have those little Christmas soldiers with 
the flags behind them, but to put Santas and big jolly HAPPY 
HOLIDAYS, etc. is horrible.  I cannot stand walking in the 
stores and hearing all this Christmas shit.  I am very BITTER 
that these people were slaughtered in that manner.  I am a bit 
closer to the situation than some of the posters on here and 
even if it were not my loved one, I feel DEVASTATED for the 
people that I know that are suffering and crying daily.  When do 
they get any deliverance?  What kind of God would take their 
children from them?  How are those parents supposed to go on 
living?  Can the Christmas music.  

Justice dear, I ache for you.  Truly, I do.  I can only imagine 
what it's like to live near the site of the devastating loss of 
life only weeks ago now.  

I hope that someday you'll be able to make your peace with God.  
I don't fully understand why God allows these things either, and 
I don't think now is the time to try to explain what I think to 
you...you are in too much pain now.

In the meanwhile, know that even though I don't know you, I love 
you.  And, I believe that God loves you, and all the people 
suffering in this world today, and all the people who died at 
the hands of 19 madmen.  I hope that in time it will get easier 
for you...when your grieving is done.

Hope you are feeling better these days.  Remember to walk around 
a lot to loosen up that tight knot from the operation.  

I hope that I can UNDERSTAND why on earth some of this shit 
happens.  I know the PERSONAL STORIES of the people involved 
that were murdered and I wont tell them on the internet but it 
makes it so VERY real.

I am sick over this.........................


Thanks for the kind words and understanding.

Dear Justice,

If there is god, he must have chosen you and all the others, 
suffering unmeasurably, especially now, as a warning to all  
the others who haven't yet suffered.

He may know,  or maybe even just hope,  that you are one  
the strong enough to understand his message if ever there 
was one for the dogs of violence out there, deprived of any 
ethics or feelings whatsoever.

He may want you to speak out the warning in your fiercest 
manner, that we have been neglecting for some twenty or so 
years.

Your message had us sit here in silence for minutes.

Today, some more young people have died on their mission 
for justice out there in the freezing cold.
Those waiting for them will also have the worst christmas, 
ever.

Their loss doesn't compensate your grief, but we are  sure 
their loved ones know why they went and lost their lives.

And they also won't be bothered by the religious excuses 
coming our way....   The "holy war"....

Keep speaking out  to us, it  may be as close to truth as we 
will ever come...



We all  feel for you, in honesty,

Radio Europe.

I was so very lucky that day.  My brother and my best friend 
were both scheduled to be in the towers that day.  Both 
cancelled last minute for different reasons.  The company I work 
for is based in New York, and some of the people I work with up 
there had spouses that normally WOULD have been at work in those 
buildings...but, for some mysterious reason(s) decided to take 
the day off or go in late.  I was incredibly lucky that out of 
20 or so people who could have died, all were saved.

There are 5000 plus tragic stories of that day.  The ones I've 
heard have broken my heart over and over again.  I do have to 
Thank God though, for the other 10,000 or more who might have 
died had the attack been later in the day.

None of it is pretty.  None of it seems fair.  

Justice, I wish I could share with you a picture I saw that was 
drawn by a 12 year old child in the days afterward.  It brought 
me comfort.  It was of Christ hovering over the towers with arms 
outspread welcoming the lost thousands home.  I believe that the 
ones who suffer most are the ones left behind.  The ones like 
you. 

I am not into any religion, but not anti-religion person either.
Being removed from the fray I understand your feelings right now.
If god is so loving and caring as all have been taught, how in
the hell do these things happen? But in the Bible (or Koran) it
says God will take care of us all, then the opposite happens.
Oh ya, some will tell you God has a plan, or God allows this for
a reason only he himself knows! Like George Carlin said, "if God
is all powerfull, can he make a rock so big even he himself cant
move it?"
 The Bible, the Koran and the rest were all written by ordinary
humans. All can be interpreted in countless ways depending on
what each person is looking for.
 Religion on a personal level seems great. Religion on the
higher levels, countries & leaders, seems to kill very 
effectivly.
But then what the hell do I know?

I think you're right.  I think maybe that was the point E.S.D. 
was trying to make with the triad of questions.  (Forgive me if 
I'm wrong about that E.S.D.) Religion itself can reduce hatred, 
bring healing and light into a sometimes dark world.  Religion 
in the hands of a Government is usually used for entirely the 
opposite purposes.

Hey om/cf.  Just wanted to let you know that Justice and Justice 
USA are two different people.  Not trying to be an anal 
retentive bastard.  I do agree though with some of the points 
Justice USA has made though, and some that you and Missin' have 
made.  If everyone would stop persecuting others for their race, 
religion, color, creed, or economic worth, then this world would 
be a much better place.

Noted. Hit the J key Justice popped up. Im lazy after work!

In answer, if a little late...

1. The nations and areas of the world you specified seem (but I 
stand ready to be corrected) to have, through their nation's 
constitutions, succesfully separated to varying degrees 
church/religion from the state. It may be debatable as to 
whether it is a panacea, but at a glance at least, countries who 
value secularism find it easier to have faiths that are able to 
co-exist alongside each other rather better than a nation which 
has theology as its principle priority. Any religious system no 
matter how valid (only in my opinion I hasten to add), that is 
in some way, a part of the ruling government of that country 
must surely be open to being compromised. Governments, and 
persons who constitute the government are in positions of power 
over the populace and over the nation they represent (or in many 
cases claim to). If a government's priority is to cling onto 
power, then any religion that is involved could also if not 
careful, take on that same mentality. In England, many of our 
indigenous population are babtised protestants overseen by the 
Church of England. An ever declining proportion of which , are 
not active in church attendance. Numbers may have stabilized 
now, or may even be increasing, I cannot give an informed 
opinion if that is the case. The general point, is that in a 
nation where religion is not deemed to be the be all and end 
all, there seems to be more freedom for people to choose not to 
worship at all, to change religions and if not accept, then at 
least tolerate other religious worship to some degreee. The 
building of mosques in their neighbourhoods for instance.

On a related issue, Oliver Cromwell who ousted Charles I in a 
bitter Civil War some years after the practice of Christianity 
in England had been reformed, put the state as represented by 
Parliament as his chief priority 'ahead' of religion, although 
he was very much a staunch protestant himself. Cromwell utterly 
refused to be made a King himself after all the effort he put in 
to removing the previous King. He ruled as 'defender of the 
nation' for some years during which he was the 'first' English 
ruler to allow the building of the very first synagogues in 
England. The influence of religion and the Monarhcy over 
government were never as powerful from his time in power. 
Britian as a nation, with these changes in place steadily grew 
more sucessful from then on.

2. Power corrupts...(if only if not careful!),Government in 
whatever form is absolute power, absolute power corrupts 
absolutely...(but again only if not careful!). If religious 
influence is prevalent in the upper reaches of government in the 
act of maintaining power...that religion's founding principles 
come under serious threat..and in time...the people who live 
under it, especially if they choose to practice another religion.

3. If those living in that region, base their history in these 
specific lines you highlighted, neither side in my opinion have 
any future. Such thinking will self-perputuate conflict 
indefinately. It is ALL TO EASY as an outsider to comment...but 
it is ONLY by having the courage to look forward to the future 
and not back to the past, that any future worth having, will 
ever be attained.  
         

Clayton Lee Waagner, the suspected author of hoax letters sent to 
abortion clinics that claimed to be contaminated with anthrax, 
was arrested Wednesday after eluding authorities for months, 
according to federal authorities.

Law enforcement sources said the arrest was made shortly after 1 
p.m. in the Cincinnati suburb of Springdale, Ohio, after an 
employee at a Kinko's photocopy store called the U.S. Marshals 
Service saying she believed Waagner was in the store.

"ThanksForYourReply"----it might even take longer than 
originally planed for our response.(smile)

You all have been very kind to us.
again,we thank you. 

we don't usually address many people on this board.
we usually just"report"and"read".
forgive us;but we would hope you would "respond" to our 
"three"questions. 
we feel it would further enlighten us.

Thursday, 6 December, 2001, 01:58 GMT 
Hamas beats off Arafat's forces


Gunmen from the Palestinian militant group Hamas freed their 
leader soon after he was placed under house arrest by 
Palestinian security forces. 
Hamas gunmen and security forces exchanged fire outside Sheikh 
Ahmed Yassin's Gaza City home before the security forces 
retreated.
 

Hamas has said it carried out the suicide bomb attacks on 
Israelis at the weekend which killed 25 people. 

The arrest attempt came as Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat 
asked for more time from Israel, which has suspended its 
retaliatory air strikes, to clamp down on militants. 

Thousands of people came out onto the streets to demonstrate 
against Sheikh Yassin's arrest after a call from loudspeakers at 
a nearby mosque. 

The 62-year-old leader, who is paralysed and virtually blind, 
was believed to be still inside his house on Wednesday night 
after the arrest attempt. 

However, Palestinian security forces did successfully arrest a 
number of other Hamas members on Wednesday, and Mr Arafat 
reported detaining a total of 151 suspected militants in recent 
days. 

BBC
---------------------------------------------------------- 

 Yessir, Yasser has it all under control, do not worry, his
police put on a good show, eye winks to the Hamas then fire
off some rounds over their heads and all have a good chuckle.
 "No! Not my helicopters! You Zionist bastards shall die! I mean
Im doing all I can to stop our people going into your shopping
malls and buses with bombs to "defend" themselves."
 Has anyone proposed a democratic election to the Palistinians?
And any suspected leader of terrorists cannot apply for the
job. Im not up on the historical or relgious history of the
conflict but as an average American citizen sees it, this is 
about the stupidist bunch of shit ever in the human history of
the world. If these were 2 kids fighting in my backyard, on and
on, not agreeing to settle it once and for all I would grab
them both by the hair and slam their heads together! Damn, if
only things could be so simple.
 Its apparent that Arafat has to go, he cant help his people and
he cant help Isreal. He is nothing. Even old terrorists have to
retire sometime.
 

At this moment, a lot of people have a wrong interpretation of 
Islam because of the recent event. To all the muslim who think 
the people who call for Jihad speak for GOD. The answer is NO

Religion are not to be force, you have to lead by your good 
example to attract others who are not in your religion to see 
that you are being taught well through your religion.

Yes I do agree all of us should fear GOD, doesn't your GOD teach 
you to forgive. Look at all around the world, where is the 
trouble region. Most of them are poor muslims region, and 
because of poverty they are easily influence into fighting for 
Allah by those muslims who want recognition for their own gain.

Look at the Philippines. Mr Misuari (muslim leader) was fighting 
for an independent muslim state in southern Philippines for many 
years with a lot of innocence civilian as well as his fighters 
and goverment forces been killed. After an agreement with the 
goverment in 1996 he is made a Governor in that states. He was 
given US$1 billion to improve his states as he ask for but spent 
most of his time in the luxurious hotel (sometime blocking a few 
floor) for what? You have to ask him. So for those 5 years the 
states did not improve but got worse with a lot of kinapping 
(penalty is death sentence in Quran) by muslim radical. You can 
read more about this group, the Abu Sayyaf. Now after five years 
governing or enjoying himself, it is time to change another man 
(also Muslim) to take his place. He did not agree and rebel 
against the goverment causing more than 100 lives and instead of 
fighting to the end as he always preach, he fled to Malaysia 
hoping that the Malasian goverment would except him because he 
did not want to give up his position as governor. Unforturnately 
for him the Malaysian goverment arrested him. So do you think 
this man is fighting for Allah? No way.

These countries would never grow economically or religiously. 
They will remain poor. No people around the world will want to 
go to these countries due to security reason.

Look at Malaysia under the rule of Dr Mahatir (muslim too). They 
too have problem with this type of radicals muslims who tried to 
disrupt the country but Mr Mahatir would not allow that to 
happen to their beautiful country. They were arrested and put 
behind bars. This country prosper and is now one of the leading 
country in Asean. They live in perfect harmony with Christian, 
Hindus, Buddism and others religion respecting each individual 
for their own belief.

So if you are really servant of Allah, pray to Allah that he may 
enlighten all these radicals through his power and make senses 
come to these radicals not for themselves but for their 
children, our children and all children of the world.

I believe that the world would be very happy and have peace, if 
all these radicals would just lay down their weapons, intention, 
greed and whatever and return to serving Allah in the correct 
way and show the world that Islam is Good and trust me, Allah 
would be very please because he know that people will see Islam 
as what it really is.

To all the muslims, be a good servant of Allah, pray for peace. 
Starting with you.

Face the fact, Isreal retaliation attack on Palestinian for the 
suicide bombing of Isreal, cost only a few lives. If they want 
revenge, how many lives would have been killed from their 
precision bombing.

They bomb the network of the palestinian leaders and do not 
intend to harm but with such massive attack definitely some 
would be killed.

The Palestinian (Hamas) on the other hand target civilians, in 
shopping mall, buses, cafeteria and many other innocence 
civilian places. You don't call these people hero. I am not 
talking about the one who died. They died thinking that they go 
to meet Allah as brain wash by their leader. Yes they would 
probably meet Allah because they innocently believe that what 
they do is right in the teaching of Islam but Allah is going to 
put it straight to them that they died for the wrong cause which 
only blemish the name of Islam but Allah will forgive them for 
their innocence.

The world is not blind or brainless. If you want the world to 
support the Palestinian cause you should not bomb innocence 
civilian but the Isreal Forces and their military bases. Then 
the world would be very fair.

U.S has seen the whole issue for so many years and had judge in 
fairness. So this make some muslim radicals angry and turn the 
suicide bombing to the US, killing not only US civilian but 
people from many countries in Sept 11. So what does the world 
think. Hey, we are innocence why kill my children because we go 
to US as a guest?

So my advise is, this war should be a war fought by true Muslim 
against Radicals muslim or terrorists. Where are the big Muslim 
countries, why are they not anything about this or are they 
radicals themselves?

Mr Bush put it very clearly. We shall fight terrorist (people 
who kill innocent civilian) and all those who harbour them. As 
he say this is going to be a very long war. I agree on that. The 
war is not only in Aghanistan. Their so many radical groups not 
only Al Qaida or Hamas. There are more than 20 group. Why so 
many group if they are fighting for the same cause (Allah) which 
they always say  so as to get support from innocence Muslim. No 
GOD teach you to go to War. G0D teach us to love. These leaders 
of the individual groups  who just want power and fame.

Thumb up for Mr Bush, Mr Blair and all the leaders of the world 
who support this cause of fighting terrorism, especially Gen 
Musharaf of Pakistan for his stand against terrorism in a  
strong Muslim country. May Allah shine his wisdom on you.

So lets us join hand and pray for world peace.

Dear Fact Finder,
Thank you so much for your post.  You have given me hope that 
there are many like you who truly understand what it is we are 
doing and why.  Your opinions mirror my own perfectly.

One excellent point that you made is this.  Why are there 20 
different terrorist groups all suposedly trying to serve the 
same purpose.  If there purpose was truly the same...to serve 
Allah, then why wouldn't they all work together.

I hope you'll stay around and visit with us here.  I appreciate 
your viewpoint very much.

Dear om/cf,
I have to agree with you.  I wanted to believe that Arafat was 
trying to work for peace, but I've lost patience with him these 
last few weeks.  Israel has said that they intend him no harm 
personally, but, perhaps it would be for the best if the 
Palestinians had a new leader with backbone.  I'd have thought 
that fear of our War on Terrorism would have had Arafat 
scrambling to stop the terrorist organizations in his country.  
Maybe he's just not been scared enough.

Sorry.Downloading some Turtles songs and thought I was lost in 
the 60's.

The Palestinian (Hamas) on the other hand target civilians, in 
shopping mall, buses, cafeteria and many other innocence 
civilian places. You don't call these people hero. I am not 
talking about the one who died. They died thinking that they go 
to meet Allah as brain wash by their leader. Yes they would 
probably meet Allah because they innocently believe that what 
they do is right in the teaching of Islam but Allah is going to 
put it straight to them that they died for the wrong cause which 
only blemish the name of Islam but Allah will forgive them for 
their innocence.

The world is not blind or brainless. If you want the world to 
support the Palestinian cause you should not bomb innocence 
civilian but the Isreal Forces and their military bases. Then 
the world would be very fair.



Comment: Now that is some precision bombing! Good work, we all
         hear of violence in the name of Islam, way to step up
         for the truth and not a political agenda reguarding
         religion.

Hi Ashraf, thanks for the news on Arab opinion. I guess I can 
see why we're not wanted there. It may be controversial, but I 
don't think that there is anything wrong with Israel targeting 
the heads of terrorist organizations. It is a matter of national 
security and it is a war initiated by those who wish to 
"liberate" Palestine. I really think that it is a hundred times 
better to target a military person during war rather than many 
civilians. This really is a case where "less is more". I think if 
the Palestinians really want to have a war they actually 
should target the Israeli Army with their suicide bombers. I 
have not often heard of a bomber blowing himself up near a 
military installation. For that matter, why not attempt to 
assassinate Sharon? I know it is crazy, but it makes more 
sense than killing a bunch of innocent Israelis. 

Crazy thought huh? My point is that if the palestinians want a 
war, they should be willing to fight it. 

Man, I wish America didn't have such a crappy image over 
there, but I know what it looks like. It's a big country with big 
businesses holding all the power and they just want their oil 
(that's actually not completely untrue). However, by far, most 
Americans are very compassionate people who do not want 
innocent people to die. I seriously cannot wait until there is a 
strong alternative to oil for energy and raw materials - Maybe 
then when we go in and try to get rid of a tyrant, it wouldn't be 
looked at as a ploy for oil. Oh well. Until then, I'll just have to 
let you know that most Americans find it horrible that 
thousands of children are dying in Iraq. The purpose of the 
sanctions is so Saddam couldn't build a military to threaten 
people with, but he has gone on to do just that and starved 
much of the population. I just wish the Iraqi's (who I know 
hate the man) would be willing to stand up and fight for 
themselves and for the benefit of their country. I know how 
much poverty there is and how things must feel impossible 
under the weight of such a regime, but there are so many of 
them! If they only knew their true power, they could stop him 
and enjoy the sort of wealth that your country enjoys. I don't 
see why it shouldn't be possible. 

Thanks again for your communication! 

FactFinder a question. Did you post as Truth on another board?
Your message was good there too. What country are you from?
 Missin, I just wonder how much control Arafat has over anything
in Palistinian areas. I just have a gut feeling, from what I have
read through internet scources other than U.S. that the younger
boys in Hamas and Islamic Jihad listen to him out of respect
then do whatever they please. But if that is the case, who does
Isreal negotiate anything with? If not Arafat Im sure the next
leader will be the Terrorist leader whith the most clout.
 Thats why Im wondering if the current situation can be turned
into a positive. Get beyond the suicide bombing planners to the
average people and have a real election of a leader.
 Damn Im getting tired, I must be dreaming, got to get some sleep
for work tomorrow. I have this weird dream of me killing Osama
slowly with my pistol crossbow.

The eyes of a child are prophetic enough - 
When I was a child they saw something beautiful
Beautiful and distant was something kind. 
More often my eyes saw flashes of terrible
Other eyes telling me that I was theirs
I ran as a child could run, away to the safety 
Of my mothers arms - but there was no peace there
I kept running and running because I had joined
The ranks of the attacked, the outcasts. 
Those dark red eyes threatened me nightly
In the morning I would wake up and start running
Until I ran, one morning, into my bedroom, onto my knees
Crying, "What have I done? Forgive my running"
The only answer I heard out loud was this, 
"NOAH! Get up" So I did. I got up and smiled 
Because I knew I would no longer have to run.
To repent means to turn around and to do that,
One must first stop running.

I wrote somewhat freely because it is not something I really 
can explain. To hear God and know in your inmost being 
that it is possible to be saved is something words cannot 
really describe. I pray for kingdom come - so I can hear that 
beautiful voice once again.

ouch...can't lift my fingers off the keyboard makes typing 
harder. People, I'm tired!! why do you make me come here 
and read everything you have to say? I like you guys!!!

HAHAHAA I'm going nuts now - If there's one thing I do know 
about God - He certainly doesn't mind if his children get 
some sleep! heehee. 

Goondight everybody.

Remember,America is one of the only nations on the earth that 
allow the general population the right to possess weapons.Unless 
Saddam's military turns against him it's not going to 
happen.We've been reminded just recently what rock-throwing will 
get you,and they were reminded in China not that long ago also.

I don't wanna understand nuthin' about terrorists or even Arabs. 
It's about time THEY understood that a sovereign state can and 
will defend itself.  This ain't bean-bag.  We won't lose. We 
will kill many people.  That's just the way it has to be.  If 
you doubt America's resolve, then there's somethin' else you 
need to understand.  

Maybe it is time to isolate again, but then we all know where 
that got us.....JB

Yeah!An we don ned none dat reedin an rightin shit niether.All I 
need is me a gun,a hors,an I got me a cell fone dat playz"Back In 
The Saddle Agin",instead of ringin.Aint dat a sumbitch?

Re:Dear Father G,
Thank you for your comments.  One thing I'd like to respond to 
is the requirement to witness...in your words meaning Mission 
work. (If I understood you correctly)

Dear Missin',
You are right on the money with your whole reply except for the 
above copied statement... As you put it so well, it's not the 
door to door people, which I also find brash and bold (just not 
my style)but rather the day to day "Living the Word" through our 
own examples of what we were taught about the life of Christ and 
how we should use His life as an example.  It is then that those 
who would come to know Him will come to you to find out how.  I 
have always felt that through out my entire life, I have only 
been the vessel from which the Words come from... I carry Him 
with me and I also am a sinner by my own admission but because 
of God's gift of Grace, I am able to go on and do what it is I 
feel that I'm being led to do in His name... 

Mission work actually has to start at home and reach out from 
that stable base... Kind of like a single drop of rain on a 
still pond. As Jesus came from Heaven to be born as a Man, the 
rain drop falls from the sky. when it hits the calm water, it 
penetrates the surface and from the point of impact several 
things start to happen. First there is a sort of crown effect 
that reaches up and out from that center point and a series of 
rings will then appear as the initial droplet actually is thrust 
back up above the water. The crown effect is kind of like the 
Apostles and then the followers after them are the ripples 
reaching out to spread the Good Word that there is LIFE after 
Death. The droplet going back up in the air has the symbolisim 
of Christ being risen. Then the droplet falls back into the 
water again, causing more ripples. That would be the second 
comming and if watched, the waters ripples then are spread out 
until they reach the shores on all sides and the waters are then 
calmed again. 

That whole time you see the water ripples moving outwardly think 
of those who are spreading the Word...Some of the ripples will 
go through rushes and weeds and will never reach the shore but 
it is not for the lack of not trying. Some ripples will be cast 
onto rocks which will cause a backwards motion of that ripple 
which is the conflicts we run into on a daily basis. It doesn't 
stop us but it does change the direction in which we were headed.
Depending on the distance a ripple travles before it reaches the 
other shore, it can loose a lot of it's strength which is why 
there are ripples comming in from behind the first ones out 
there. Those are the ones still trying to reach those who have 
yet to really hear the Word. And the next set of ripples are 
doing the same until that Droplet comes back down to hit the 
water again strengthening the rippled effect and making it 
stronger and still continues to reach out to those willing to 
receive the Word.

Sorry about the long analogy but I hope you found your message 
here. You do not have to leave your home to find those in 
need....just look around you... 

I have also not been very kind to some on this and other boards 
and for that I am sorry but I'm not sorry for doing the Lord's 
work in whatever fashion it presents itself...  I've also taken 
a beating and a few tounge lashings here but that is expected 
when you find yourself picking up the cross.  Once the Spirit 
has come into your life, you can't help yourself because the 
control is not yours...you are moved to where you are needed, 
even if it involves hitting your head against the rocks... 
Humility is not a bad lesson to be learned and we should all be 
so lucky to experience it on a regular basis...I had more but 
I'm exhausted and am in need of rest...<><...<><...<><...F.G.+

If you are trying to be sarcastic, then you make sense, but if 
not then what are you trying to say?

I did not mean you Guido.

JB

I will talk to you tomorrow and if desired, we can continue our 
conversation on theology or whatever you would like...<><..F.G.+

What do you mean by your last statement?

Just to continue on where our phone conversation ended tonight. 
Just in case there is another J.B. out there the real one will 
understand....If not, he'll just have to have another LIMON'...
<><...<><...<><...F.G.+

FOOTPRINTS--------I don't know if you are all familiar with this 
work; I would send the whole poem, if I had it (I Can't find it 
right now).  Anyways the gist of it is that no matter how 
difficult things get the Lord is the one who carries you 
through.......JB

Everyone please have a safe Holiday season.

the pervading lesson in all the strifes the world is witnessing 
is the need to be tolerent. however the very word tolerence 
might smack of negativism , yet that seems to be the only safer 
and saner option for all to follow in these troubled times.well 
lets hope that these events (all acts of aggression including 
the state aggression by the USA) might teach the humankind to be 
more loving and caring and not to cry foul only when our 
neighbourhood is attacked but to fight violence and aggression 
where ever it occurs. even ifthe offender be a super power let's 
voice our opposition in one voice.

shanks

Be a little more tolerant to people eating breakfast please.
You just made me puke,
skanks a lot

It is you who needs a history lesson. Why do you think the bible 
pits man against man? Just when  do you think it was written?
                     Go figure

Jacob's pillow is crying. 

A dictator afraid of his own blood,
using death on his own soil.
His evil brings evil like silt in a flood,
The cry of his land, like a snake in a coil.
Saddam has killed any hope of his people,
and blamed it on a Christian steeple.
The starvation blamed on the west,
His oppression and evil put to the test.
Saddam works his alchemy for the destruction of man
He does his sick deed and blames whoever he can.
Uncle Sam, he says is the one to blame,
As he holds our sanctions out in his hand.
His own people he kills with his game,
And the blood of Muslims runs in the sand.

Hey Mr. know it all, go figure this. WE ARE ALL GOD'S CHILDREN!
Not just YOU! And YES I AM PLENTY PISSED OFF! You think you know 
it all, well figure this, God is pissed too. I am sick of self 
rightous religious freaks! We all are one, not the Jews, not the 
Muslims, and not the people who carry a crucifix around their 
necks, a symbol of ROMAN OPRESSION! If you beleive in Christ, 
loose the cross! His death was a reality, but his life was his 
message! The bible will be the blueprint of religious 
EXTRTEMISTS, but not good enough for the Mohammad! he wrote his 
own HATE MANUAL! Wake up! get your head out of the writings of 
religious EXTREMISTS! if we don't then bend over and kiss your 
ass goodbye! 

Seeing as you see yourself as being qualified to represent God's 
son, so to speak, who according to scripture, performed 
miracles, perhaps you could grace us all with a miracle of your 
own...

...such as writing something intelligent perhaps. 

Missin',
I am not quite sure exactly what part of my post you disagree 
with.  If you would clarify I will gladly respond.

I have, in fact, read the entire Left Behind series except for 
Desecration.  While the series is fictional it is indeed based on 
what the Bible describes as the tribulation period.  I do believe 
that the world will be torn in ways it has never known.  The 
thing that people must realize is that the tribulation is not a 
time for God to "punish" those who do not believe but it is 
actually a last ditch effort for him to show His mercy.  An 
important point to remember is that the rapture will not happen 
until every people group has heard the gospel.  Every person will 
have made a choice either to hear and accept or reject Christ 
BEFORE the rapture.  The tribulation is to give those that reject 
Christ yet another chance to avoid living eternity in hell.

I cannot bring myself to call you God's son, please forgive me.  
God gave his ONLY BEGOTTEN son so that we might have eternal 
life.  That said, yes, I agree we are ALL God's children.  God 
is my Father, yes.  But, when you come in here with THAT name 
blaspheming God by setting yourself against the rest of God's 
children and speaking in the most foul language you can...it 
puts a very bitter taste in my mouth.  It bothers me that you 
feel that it's ok to represent God in that way.

Do you take issue with the fact that Christ was born 2000 years 
ago?  Here is the history I know, feel free to enlighten me if 
you know differently.  First there was God, all of us worshipped 
him...Jews, Muslims, and Christians.  Then came Christ 2000 
years ago...that was the division between the Jews, and the 
Christians (I now understand that many Muslims were Christians 
too for a time...is that right Ashraf?)  Then came Mohammed, and 
thus the division of the Christians and the Muslims...for they 
believe that Mohammed was God's final and most exalted prophet.

I would never dream of speaking for God...I think he might 
be "pissed" too, but I also don't think he'd like me speaking 
for him about his feelings on these current affairs since he 
hasn't told me directly how he feels.

We are all angry here.  We are all sad too.  Most of us are here 
to try to understand all the factors (the shades of gray).  It 
is only the very young who can believe that everything is only 
black or only white.

Feel free to stay and join the conversation, if you are looking 
for knowledge and understanding.  If you just came to hear 
yourself yell...well you did that.  But, it adds nothing of 
value to the rest of us.

God Bless

Good Morning Smiley!
I'm sorry, that really wasn't very clear, was it. I had to look 
back myself to remember.

You had said that you believed that God didn't set brother 
against brother...that like with Cain and Abel, it was the 
presence of sin...jealousy, greed, etc...that sets brother 
against brother.

I was just wondering out loud if God might NOT have set brother 
against brother in the case of Isaac, then Esau and Jacob, in 
order to provide us proof before the end days that the 
prophecies of the Bible are true...thus proving his own 
existence to us before it's too late for us.

In your theory, it's chaos, sin, and our own natures that has 
brought us to this point.  In mine, it's proof that God loves us 
all enough to attempt (over and over) to prove his existence to 
us in order to try to save us.  I guess I'd just like to believe 
that even though this was a harsh way to go about it, that God 
loves us that much.  

Does that make more sense?  It's all theory anyway, only God 
knows the answer...but, it was an intriguing thought.

Hi Noah,
Sorry I missed you last night.  Yes...I DO know the sound of his 
voice...and the touch of his hand...and the joy that swept over 
me as I was forgiven and claimed.  It's amazing, isn't it?  
Thanks for sharing!  One day I'd like to tell you about my 
experience.

You said, "I am sick of self rightous religious freaks!"

Then what the hell are you?  Are you sick of yourself?
You are just as bad.  You condemn everyone else's religion and 
think yours is the best.  What makes you right?  When you force 
your beliefs on people, you only push them further away.  If you 
would educate instead of attack then maybe you would have 
somewhat of an audience.  You are the perfect example of when 
religion breeds hate.

In case you haven't seen, the names and ages of our three lost 
soldiers were published this morning.  I hope that all of you 
who pray will take a moment today to say a short prayer for 
these brave men.

Officials identified the victims as Sgt. 1st Class Daniel Henry 
Petithory, 32, a communications specialist; Master Sgt. 
Jefferson Donald Davis of Elizabethton, Tenn.; and Staff Sgt. 
Brian Cody Prosser, 28, of California. All three were special 
forces soldiers stationed at Fort Campbell, Ky.
       

Yesterday on Wall Street the Dow Jones Industrial Average closed 
above 10,000 for the first time since August 28th, and the 
Nasdaq closed above 2000 for the first time since August 7th.

Yesterdays rally effectively erases ALL of the financial damage 
done by the Sept. 11th attacks to American investors.  

Didn't last as long as you thought, did it Osama?  See, you 
killed some of us, but you didn't kill our industry.  You didn't 
kill our spirit.  You didn't kill AMERICA!

Excerpted from article on MSN this morning.

       U.S. defense officials told MSNBC that they could not 
confirm the report. But Kenton Keith, the former U.S. ambassador 
to Qatar who serves as spokesman for the coalition of U.S.-led 
forces in Afghanistan, said at a news conference in Islamabad, 
Pakistan, that  you should ... take seriously reports that 
Mullah Omar himself is negotiating to save his own skin.  
        I can tell you authoritatively that some of Mullah 
Omar s most senior commanders are negotiating their own 
surrender,  Keith said. 

I can see where you would deduce that I adhere more to a chaos 
theory than a devine plan in my post.  I apologize, I did not 
intend for it to come across this way.  There is nothing chaotic 
about God's plan.  It may seem that way at times but only because 
we are limited in our vision of the 'big picture.'  I simply 
meant to indicate that God does not 'cause' strife between people 
but will use, for His devine purpose, any circumstance that 
brings about the completion of His plans.  He even takes what 
Satan intends for evil and brings good out of it.  The fact that 
he transcends time in a way that we cannot allows Him see all 
things past and present and future and then use people, such as 
the prophets, to help us find our way to Him.

I hope that helps.  I cannot really seem to put into words 
exactly what I mean and for this I apologize.

You have all read my creative works, just under a different 
name. The rant I gave in this name is for those who have fouled 
the name of Allah! For this I Curse! For this I Scream! Osama is 
a bastird! He is NOT A MUSLIM. He is using the meek to further 
his madness! He defiles all who revere GOD! Religious extremists 
are holy rollers in the worst sense! Those in the UK seem to 
forget Jacob's pillow! and their occupation of Afghanistan! How 
convenient! Well read the books, you are the Crusaders, 
remember? King George? Revolutionary war? Everyone seems to just 
remember what they find convenient to put the blame on others! 
And yes YOU said don t make god come down here, remember 
Father?? Before you speak for GOD hold your tong, you have no 
more right than anyone else. Do you figure yourself divine? more 
so than others? Well guess again. WE ARE ALL GOD'S Children! Not 
just one religion or another! 
  I will hold the slander and vile language in respect for your 
dominion, but for those who defile the many faces of god in the 
name of hate and war, HOLY WAR!, I curse! And I swear! 
  Religious Dogma is bad for the world  no matter who spouts it. 
It breeds contempt and fear. God is not to be feared! God is 
LOVE. Be at peace, I am a man of many tempers, but for god I 
have only respect. Before you tell people how to act, loose the 
dogmatic references to the books written by those who hate! I do 
not impose my religion on anyone as you say. I abhor those who 
do! You however do impose your religion on others, don t you?  

You'll have to forgive me, Jacob's pillow and the escapades of 
the British in Afghanistan was a little before my time, and as 
such not my personal responsibility. I would not, out of 
respect, ask you or anybody else for that matter, to take 
responsibility for your country's past misdemeanours, because 
virtualy every single nation on this planet has periods in it's 
history that do not hold up well to scrutiny. As you are well 
aware, it is easy for you to pointscore, as you'll neither give 
your country of origin or the previous 'handle(s)' you claim to 
have used. If you readily choose this form of deceipt WHY should 
anybody rely on your integrity as an individual or the integrity 
of the content of your posts? It really does not inspire 
admiration. The reason I personally responded to your first post 
as 'God's son' was that you deliberately used profanity and 
religious references that were solely used to get a reaction 
from contributors on this board. A pattern that is sadly 
becoming an all too familiar one. 

Do you have the HONESTY to throw some light on who you 
previously posted as? Do you have the integrity to apologise for 
ANY of your actions so far?

The one thing we can agree on sir, is that we are all God's 
children.   

Religious Dogma is bad for the world  no matter who spouts it.

EXACTLY.

It is ALL TO EASY as an outsider to comment...but 
it is ONLY by having the courage to look forward to the future 
and not back to the past, that any future worth having, will 
ever be attained. In this you ring truth. Bury those damn books 
telling people the world order according to them.  
         

I just have one question:Does your psychiatrist charge you per 
disorder?Or just one flat rate?

I cannot UNDERSTAND how the fuck Bush can "sympathize" with the 
terrorist taliban rat John Walker and call him a "poor fellow" I 
mean, gimme a fucken break....I thought Bush was getting tough.  
This Walker douchebag should be considered an enemy of the 
American people, guilty of treason and PUT TO DEATH ASAP!  Thank 
God, at least former military chiefs and war veterans have the 
sense to want him tried for treason.  Who gives a flying fuck if 
John Walker was "misled"?  Why is it so hard for Bush to admit 
that this scumbag is a despicable traiter?  Four years ago, this 
fucker picked up the Koran in one hand and the Autobiography of 
Malcolm  in the other.  Changed his name to Hamid  grew a beard, 
wore a sissy skirt, and dreamed of killing Americans for the 
taliban all the while living in California.  BUSH WHAT THE FUCK 
MESSAGE ARE YOU SENDING OUT?  This is why America becomes a 
laughing stock to the world.  I mean, it is stupidity like this, 
that makes us look like a bunch of fucking pansies.  I support 
Bush, but cannot for the life of me, understand WHY HE IS 
SHOWING SYMPATHY FOR THIS TRAITOR?  What about all the shit 
talking about destroying all those that support the taliban?  
Goddammit this rips me a new asshole folks..........

Now you're starting to understand my anger.

As most of you know, I am Catholic and my people come from 
Austria.  I actually lived in Austria for awhile when I was a 
child and too young to know about the Hitler regime and 
persecution of the Jews.  I remember Austria as a beautiful 
hilly place where I could lie on my back and pick flowers and 
watch the clouds roll by to young to know that this was the same 
sky and beautiful trees and flowers that bore witness to the 
millions of poor jews that were slaughtered.  I was only about 
five at the time and knew nothing of this.  When I was about 
seven or eight, a lot of us Austrian/german kids were taunted in 
school and called NAZIS.  I learned to be ashamed of being 
german and I still feel that same half a century later.  I would 
watch the Sunday evening History show that taught me more about 
the monster Hitler and saw the depiction of jews stick thin 
being thrown into mass graves.   I can never hold my head high 
and be proud of my heritage because of this.  I take on the 
shame of what happened in Austria and it is a hangup I still 
need to work on.

You better believe I have sympathy for the Jews.  My own 
personal friendships with Jewish people during my lifetime have 
been very positive. Jews can be VERY GENEROUS people and if 
someone wants to talk about cheap or thrifty, I have some German 
relatives that would make a penny sqeak.  Now, my first 
experience with having a Jew Friend was when I came back from 
Austria in the mid 1950's.  My Mom had a wonderful Jewish friend 
by the name of Estelle Shapiro that used to live at 55 Central 
Park West.  When my Mom first came to this country, she worked 
as a domestic for Mrs. Shapiro, and Mrs. Shapiro and her doctor 
husband treated her like one of the family.  Even years later, 
after she stopped working for them, they remained good friends.  
Mrs. Shapiro would give me beautiful expensive dresses and shoes 
that her daughter had outgrown, took me to the temple, and also 
gave me a lovely Thanksgiving treat by having me to her house on 
Thanksgiving so I could see the parade right in front of her 
house.  Mrs. Shapiro would take me to lovely restaurants and buy 
me nice dinners, the real swank type of restaurants, where they 
gave you slices of lemon in a bowl to dip your hands into.  

I will always have sympathy for the jews and am so proud of NOT 
being anti semetic.  My symapthizes go out to all the poor 
people in Israel that are getting killed on a daily basis. 

They say that jews are God's chosen people, but it seems that 
they are almost God's scapegoats for all the decades of  pain 
that they have been forced to endure.  The fact that New York 
City has a large Jewish population certainly made the horrible 
Twin Towers tragedy more plausible.

With all that is going on, He'll be a millionare! but no I am 
saner than you might think, just really angry at the post from 
the self rightous Muslim telling everyone he is going to 
paradise. You might get a clue as to how angry if you think out 
of the box for just a minute. I know it is hard to do after a 
life of religious conditioning. But just this once think about 
it from the standpoint of no religion at all.

i hate you you suck big donkey nuts thanks for listening

You will have to find someone else to discuss religion with.

I feel as if u did nothing to all of us american but all u did 
is fuck ureself so have fun with it in your ass. fucker! Osama 
needs to go lick his wifes nasty clit.

12/01/2001: "A defecting German intelligence officer 
provides more insights on a possible Jarrah-Abu Nidhal 
link" 


Washington-Al-Mutamar

Referring to a story in last week s Al-Mutamar about the 
relationship between Assem Omar Al-Jarrah (Born 1962 in 
Lebanon) and the Fatah Revolutionary Command group 
lead by the infamous terrorist Sabri Khalil Al-Banna (Abu 
Nidhal), an INC security official has stated that more details 
on this relationship can be found in the published 
revelations made by a defecting Stasi officer who fled to the 
West on New Year s Eve 1990.

Citing German press reports and security sources, 
Al-Mutamar had revealed in its previous issue that Assem 
Al-Jarrah, the grand uncle of Sept. 11 hijacker Ziyad 
Al-Jarrah, was an informer for the Stasi since the 
mid-1980s, and had links to the Abu Nidhal organization, 
currently based in Baghdad, and that Assem Al-Jarrah could 
have been one of the channels that introduced the Iraqi 
General Intelligence Directorate (GID) to the Hamburg 
terrorist cell led by Muhammed Atta in early 1999, through its 
agent the Palestinian terrorist Abu Nidhal who was hosted 
by Baghdad from 1970 to 1983 and then again in the early 
nineties and has been in Baghdad since December 1998 
according to press reports, and in living at Al-Makasib 
village near Saddam International Airport and is being 
treated by Saddam s personal doctors for leukemia.

The source stated that Colonel Rainer Wiegand of the Stasi, 
who was in charge of its counterespionage section and 
supervised the files of foreigners in East Germany, and who 
defected with a suitcase containing secret documents to the 
West 11 years ago, had told his debriefers from several 
Western intelligence services that one of his agents, 
codenamed  Carsten Berg  (Der Spiegel, which broke the 
story of the Abu Nidhal-Jarrah connection in its November 5 
issue had established that  Assem Omar Jarrah  was 
codenamed  Carsten Berg  in his secret file no. 
15/1309/85), had undergone an attempt to recruit him into 
the Abu Nidhal organization during April 1988 by a person 
codenamed  Hassan  in East Berlin, who had threatened 
him with physical liquidation if he revealed this recruitment 
attempt to anyone. Col. Wiegand began investigating this 
 Hassan  and found out that he was also working for the 
Stasi and was being supervised by one of Wiegand s 
friends, Col. Wolfgang Stuchly.

 Hassan  was an assistant professor of life sciences at 
Liepzig University (known between 1956 and 1993 as Karl 
Marx University) in southern Germany, and Wiegand could 
not specify to his debriefers if  Hassan  carried Iraqi or 
Syrian citizenship but he had been granted political asylum 
in East Germany since the mid-1970s. He was a radical 
fundamentalist who hated the West and especially hated 
Western influences on Arab societies and had a deep 
problem with women.  Hassan  volunteered his services to 
the Stasi upon his arrival in Germany and managed to 
expose tens of illegal financial rings run by Iraqi and Syrian 
and Libyan diplomats as part of a clandestine sting 
operation conducted by the Stasi codenamed  Operation 
Trader .

Col. Stuchly confessed to his colleague that he had always 
been perplexed as to why  Hassan  never provided any 
information on terrorist networks or espionage throughout 
the time he was actively exposing the illegal activities of 
Arab diplomats over the span of seven years during which 
he was being supervised by Stuchly. The Stasi did not know 
that  Hassan  had any links to Abu Nidhal until he tried to 
recruit Assem Al-Jarrah. Consequently, the Stasi conducted 
a wide surveillance operation on the movements of 
 Hassan  and Wiegand ordered Assem to have one of his 
underlings join the Abu Nidhal group. After several weeks of 
monitoring his movements, it became clear that  Hassan s" 
chief role was acting as a spotter and recruiter for Abu 
Nidhal, and while he reported on the illegal activities of Arab 
diplomats, he made sure to maintain his own rapport with 
them on behalf of Abu Nidhal (who resided for long periods 
of time in both Syria and Libya, as well as Iraq), and one of 
 Hassan s  regular contacts was the Libyan intelligence 
officer of Palestinian descent working in the Libyan 
Embassy in East Berlin, Yasser Chraidi, who was the 
mastermind of the La Belle disco bombing during April 
1986 in West Berlin that claimed the lives of two U.S. 
servicemen and a Turkish woman, and who was sentenced 
to life imprisonment by a German court just last week for his 
role in the bombing 15 years ago.

Wiegand and Stuchly planned to arrest  Hassan  but the 
head of the Stasi, General Erich Mielke prevented them from 
doing that and closed the case. It should be noted that the 
Stasi was selling weapons to Libya through Abu Nidhal who 
in turn cashed in on sizable commissions, and some 
reports have claimed that he was in East Germany during 
1985 and had given his word to the Stasi that he would not 
conduct any activities in their country.

The INC security official added that  Hassan  is the key to 
the mystery of the possible link that occurred between the 
GID and Abu Nidhal on the one hand and Assem and Ziyad 
Al-Jarrah and Muhammed Atta on the other, saying,  the 
psychological profile of Hassan is very similar to that of 
Muhammed Atta, and it is not far fetched that Assem 
Al-Jarrah, who was suffering from financial woes, had 
maintained a channel of communication with Hassan and 
told him that his relative Ziyad had met a group in Hamburg 
in 1998 that was both willing and the able to participate in 
clandestine and terrorist activity, and then Hassan told Abu 
Nidhal who in turn went to his sponsors in the GID .

The source added that in the absence of tangible evidence 
then this scenario requires further and deeper investigation 
and said that German intelligence officers are taking a very 
good and long look at the this trail. The source claimed that 
 Hassan s archival file is missing and could have been 
destroyed in the last days of the Stasi and nothing is known 
of Hassan after the collapse of the Iron Curtain . 
Furthermore, Assem Al-Jarrah s file had been tampered 
with and  combed  according to Der Spiegel Magazine and 
is missing much of its content, especially the records 
dealing with his relative Refet Al-Jarrah, who was also 
working for the Stasi. The source added that many of the 
missing files could be in the possession of the Central 
Intelligence Agency (CIA) that managed tp capture large 
amounts of sensitive files from the Stasi archives and have 
them shipped to the United States right after the fall of the 
Communist regime.

The source lamented the death of Col. Wiegand in a 
mysterious car accident in Portugal during 1996 that also 
killed his wife. After his defection, Wiegand warned Western 
intelligence officials of the effectiveness of the Iraqi GID and 
informed them that there were 14 Iraqi GID officers carrying 
German names in East Germany and that the GID had also 
succeeded in recruiting many Germans to work for Iraq. 
Wiegand often said that he had never encountered any other 
foreign intelligence service that behaved in the cruel manner 
of the Iraqi GID. It should be noted that Wiegand was the 
lead witness in the trial of Yasser Chraidi that started in 
1996, but he was killed before providing his testimony.

However, Col. Wolfgang Stuchly (Stasi file number: 
090734429718:99:02:00) is still alive and some reports 
have him working in a sausage stand in Alexanderplatz in 
Berlin, and he was known to secretly despise the 
Communist regime, especially its ties to terrorists, and 
could be helpful in determining the identity of  Hassan , in 
order to have Federal agents interrogate him. Moreover, 
Assem Al-Jarrah has been missing since Sept. 11 and 
could be hiding in Lebanon, and throughout the nineties he 
was in the business of supplying pharmaceutical and 
medical supplies to Libya through two companies he 
owned in Griefswald, but he was grappling with bankruptcy 
since 1997.

That's very good!Now hold still while get your little shoes 
on.We're going to the Mall,and if you're good you'll get some 
gum.

Last night I watched 20/20, with Barbara Walters interviewing 
President and Mrs. Bush.  

Barbara was going back to the events of 9/11 and they showed a 
clip of President Bush sitting in a second grade classroom, and 
his staff aid giving him the news that a second plane had 
crashed into one of the twin towers.

I say there is NO WAY this man knew that this was going to 
occur.  To implicate him in this 'conspiracy' theory is a load 
of *#%*!

The first thing he does EVERY morning is to go through & 
prioritize the 'threat list'; Many of which are threats to his 
life and that of his family.

(how's that for breakfast fare, OM/CF?)

Call me foolish, but I believed him when he said that we need to 
work toward peace--that we need to find a way to resolve our 
differences in a peaceful manner, and provide a world for our 
children and grandchildren where they can live in peace.  

I have not been a Bush supporter in the past; as Barbara was 
interviewing him, though, I tried to picture Gore sitting in 
that chair, and I just couldn't do it.  

A friend of mine once told me that God does not CAUSE bad things 
to happen--(man has freedom of choice) but is there to help us 
through those difficult times.

I agree with what Everyman stated to Justice USA.  God does NOT 
cause bad things to happen.  There are several reasons why a 
person or persons will experience difficulty and pain.

1. Sin - It is the whole process of sowing and reaping.  If you 
sow sin you reap pain, discontent and, yes, sometimes even death.  
If a person is promiscuous they should not blame God if they 
contract some terrible disease.  The same goes for smoking.  I 
HAD a friend who smoked since she was 14 and then blamed God for 
the lung cancer that killed her when she was in her fifties.

2. Evil - Evil is no respector of persons.  Any person under an 
evil influence does not care who or how they hurt another.  
Their only goal is to consume who they may in their hate and 
woundedness.  Just like the men who hijacked the planes in 
September.  They did not care at all who, specifically, was IN 
the buildings as long as they could kill...many.

3. Nature - Their are things that just happen in this world.  
Hurricanes are a natural phenomenon.  Regretfully, not everyone 
can escape the terrible destruction that comes in the wake of 
these storms.  There is no evil or good influence it just happens 
and sometimes people get hurt and sadly even die.

Now, on the side of God.  While He does not cause these things to 
happen to people, He is there under every circumstance.  I 
have heard story upon story of miracles just from the events of 
9/11.  These stories come not just from believers but also from 
people who, previous to that date, had rejected God.

****************************************

1.In a free society such as the United 
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe, without 
repercussions from said goverments or society in general?
(by  "repercussions", we are refering to 
imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or even death.)

In the words of our forefathers:


'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are 
created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with 
certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty 
and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, 
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers 
from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of 
Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of 
the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new 
Government, laying its foundation on such principles and 
organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most 
likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, 
will dictate that Governments long established should not be 
changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all 
experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, 
while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by 
abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a 
long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the 
same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute 
Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off 
such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future 
security'


2.In societies that control freedom of said choices; what is 
the purpose of that control over society?


Just that--CONTROL
POWER
An imposition upon and manipulation of others for the benefit of 
a few.  Talk about an abusive relationship!

(A feeling of inadequacy, perhaps?)




3.Regarding the war on terror; how do you feel about the 
relationsip between current affairs of now, and Isaac and 
Ishmael of old. Or does it relate?

I think it does relate.  It is part of the  collective 
consciousness  that we all hold within us.
For many, Ishmael is regarded as the  illegitimate  son.  
Ishmael is equated with stubbornness, violence, and 
irrationality.  In the words of Swedenborg:

 People whose rationality consists only of truth--even though it 
is truth that comes from faith--and not of the good of kindness 
also, are of this character. They are quick to find fault, make 
no allowances, are against all, regard everyone as being in 
error, are instantly prepared to rebuke, chasten, and punish, 
show no pity, and put no effort or energy into redirecting 
people's minds. They view everything from the standpoint of 
truth, and nothing from the standpoint of goodness. In short, 
they are hard people. 

 He shall be a wild donkey.  His hand against all.  Genesis 16:12

Issac, on the other hand, is represented by spiritual 
rationality, peacefulness, returning good for evil; instead of 
fighting for land and wells, he went out and found new land, and 
after a time had people coming to him for advice on how to live 
peacefully; even his enemies.

So yes, we have those who wish to fight and those who wish to 
live in peace.

'They shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears 
into pruning hooks.
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation. Neither shall 
they learn war anymore.'
Isaiah 2:4 

Don t you think it s time for  Ishmael  to wake up and smell the 
coffee?  No good is being accomplished by imposing violence upon 
others.

Well guess what. seems all we can do is disagree. Sound familiar?
Walter, we said no religion, remember? Well... just goes to 
show. God's son addressed it to the servant of Allah, and all 
you Bozo's chimed in! was it addressed to you?? NO! So WTF? All 
you can do is point point point! No one can be better than you! 
        Go to the pointless forest arrow! But don't goof with 
the bees! or are you too young to remember that story? think 
hard!

Forgive my hate, cast my hate into the fire of hell.
              For those who care,
              So do I. But for those who spout hate..
                So can I.

Just wanted to say Hi and let you know that I heard  from my son 
today....He's fine and somewhat homesick but,for the most part 
in good spirits..He couldn't go into much detail on the 
situation over there. Hopefully I will here more soon

I bet that is one long list right about now!
 I watched most of interview last night too and, JusticeUSA,
and my take was Bush was about to burst laughing when Bahbwaaa
brought up Johnny Walkers name, either that or the name brought
back fond memories of some good partys. 
 I voted for Bush and felt good about it, which never happens for
me in a Presidential election, and I also block out any image
of Gore trying to handle all this crap. The whole ballot counting
and the new science of Chad just cracks my ass up now! I wonder
if Gore looks at the news and says "whew, that could have been 
me"!

In relaying these two opposing opinions to you, I am allowing 
myself some editorial licence Om/cf, by stating formerly that I, 
in large part, disagree with the anti-war stance and agree in 
large part with the pro-war stance.

Anti-Opinion: Dated 2 Dec 2001 (Sunday Express, Tabloid U.K.)

(Former Express war reporter in Afghanistan, Yvonne Ridley)


Title: Why I have to speak out against war.

...I am not a political person, nor am I a member of any 
pressure group, and I am not anti-war. I am a reporter, not a 
commentator and I do not usually address personal opinions. 
However, I do have a story to tell and I have decided to tell it 
to anyone who will listen. On November 18, I gave my "peace" 
message to between 80,000 and 100,000 people who, like me, are 
against this war. Although my knees were trembling, I relayed my 
story about Kama Village (subjected to U.S. bombing). The Yvonne 
Ridley I used to know would not have dared, or cared, to address 
such a meeting.

There is a huge tide turning against this war and it has the 
authorities worried. This was illustrated by the London 
Metropolitan Police's statement which said 15,000 turned up at 
Trafalgar Square when it was plain to see that there were at 
least four times as many. They say truth is the first casualty 
of war and it's now lying in intensive care.

I don't know how long my "15 minutes of fame" will last but I 
intend to make use of every second to highlight the injustices 
of this war and the humanitatian disaster. I cannot stand 
shoulder to shoulder with George W Bush and Tony Bliar. I am 
not "with" Osama Bin Laden.

The life of one innocent Afgahn is as important as the life of 
one innocent American but that is not the message we are hearing 
from our "friends" over the Atlantic. I still feel a gut-
wrenching ache for the people of New York and Washington - but 
revenge on this scale is not the answer. The only way to deal 
with terrorism is to strangle it financially, then launch an 
underground war, as in Northern Ireland. I wonder how people 
would have reacted if we had dropped daisy cutter bombs on the 
American-funded offices and training camps (IRA) that have 
existed in Northern Ireland for 30 years.

I have always been passionate about life but now I do lie awake 
at night thinking about the pain being inflicted on the Afgahn 
people in the hunt for one man. This is not justice - it's 
bloody criminal.


[If upon reading U.K.Voices thinks that he has at last succeeded 
in his attempt at brainwashing U.K.Citizen, he would be quite 
mistaken.]

The above reporter, in my opinion, recklessly ventured into 
extremely hostile territory and was duly captured by enemy 
forces, immediately putting her life and those with her at risk. 
Her nationality gave her sufficient bargining power to hasten 
her release, I doubt the eventual fate of the 2 Afghan guides 
she took with her was as pleasant. One can only imagine what 
that might have been. To add further embarrasment to her nation, 
her mother pleaded before the national media, to implore that 
the Taliban release her daughter (of course quite 
understandably). However, on news of Ms.Ridley's release, and 
for the proceeding couple of days, the reporters's mother, in so 
many words, thanked the Taliban and stated for all the world to 
hear, what 'nice' people she thought the Taliban were. The same 
group of people who left to their own devices, put womens' 
rights, right at the bottom of their list of priorities, if it 
was ever on there. Ms.Ridley having been present at this rally 
seemed to contradict herself on the numbers present at it. She 
said..

Police Est 15,000 persons, and she multiplied that by at least 
4. Hmmmm...That makes at least the minimum 60,000...not 80-
100,000. The truth sure is the first casualty of 
war...Ms.Ridley. 



Pro-Opinion: Dated Dec 2 2001 (Sunday Express, Tabloid U.K)

(Former Labour MP, Robert Kilroy-Silk)


Title: Taliban are not worthy of Mercy.

Why all the fuss about a few Taliban fighters killed in the Kala-
i-Janghi fortress? What's Amnesty International getting into a 
lather for? The fighters weren't in Afghanistan to visit the 
sights or grow poppies, were they? They're terrorists. Their 
friends murdered innocent men and women in America on September 
11 and they gloated over the deaths.

And, by all accounts, the terrorists began the fighting when 
they beat and bit to death the CIA officer, Mike Spann - after 
one of them exploded a grenade to kill himself and several of 
his guards - after which they used their weapons on their 
captors. What were the Alliance forces and the Americans 
expected to do?

We all know Taliban troops cannot be trusted. We've seen them 
change sides faster than a traffic goes from red to green. For 
the past couple of months, they have played out a saga of 
betrayal and deceit, showing themselves to be turncoats who will 
fight against friends at the wave of a dollar, or a fist. They 
would barter their mothers for a Toyota pick-up.

Why should those guarding them have their safety put at risk 
once the fanatics had started the killing? After all, they keep 
telling the whole world what fierce fighters they are, how they 
will fight to the death and become martyrs on the way to 
paradise.

Who would want to take risks with gun-waving head bangers like 
these? Mind you, it was, so far, the only time they have stood 
their ground and fought.

Remember how we were warned by the faint hearts that this would 
be a war that the U.S. could not win? How we were told that the 
well-fed comfortable Western soldiers would be no match for the 
ideoligically driven hard men? Do you recall how frequently the 
so-called lessons of history were cited and how we were made to 
believe the Americans would get bogged down in the snow, lost in 
the mountains and would return home in body bags?

Some prediction that was. Oh, the Taliban posed as great 
warriors but the moment they were confronted by Alliance forces, 
being properly directed by Americans supported by precision 
bombing, they either caved in, surrendered, changed sides or 
fled. Some heroes they are.

They are fine when it comes to beating, intimidating and 
terrorising women. They can do that, all right. They're also 
good at blowing up unsuspecting and unarmed men and women going 
about their daily business. But they are not up to fighting real 
soldiers. One lot, the Pakistanis, got themselves airlifted out 
of harm's way by the Pakistani airforce.

Doesn't say a lot for their principles, does it? They evaporate 
pretty quickly, don't they? They can be bought, bartered or just 
forgotten when they become inconvenient or too dangerous to live 
by.

This war is being won by the Americans - in the air and on the 
ground. They must be sure to dictate the peace. Afghanistan must 
be built on American principles, reflecting civilsed values. It 
must not be left to the squabbling crew meeting in Bonn.

-------

Om/cf, speaking as an U.S. citizen what is your opinion on the 
contents of the 2 posts, the prior one containing that news 
report, but also specifically the last paragraph above? 

Ashraf:

To hell with what you think you know about me you little 
megalomaniac prick.
How dare you think you can act as the "Will of God" by 
threating peoples
well being, because of your judgement of them.
You are a (ta use your words)"terrorist point of veiw" little 
man.
I have no use nor see any need to address you again--in 
fact I was done with you in that letter
I wrote to allati2d, you and somebody else---and it might not 
have ended on not such a sour note, had you minded your 
own fuckin' business when I was talking to Walter.
And again Walter--thanks for that reply. For he finally gave 
me a sraight answer.
I never got one that clear out of you Ashraf.




To all my Friends:---I am done on this board. I will continue 
to read some----maybe an occasional post. But my 
character is no longer needed here.Spy.

No longer needed?!...I wouldn't be so sure Spy...I really 
wouldn't!....I'm a fine one to talk after my antics a few days 
ago, but things on this board are not quite as they appear in my 
opinion. Feel free to make your presence felt anytime you like 
sir. I in turn, hope you'll reconsider, but don't leave because 
you feel your presence hear is not needed,...because it most 
certainly IS.  

Hi, to answer your question OM, yes it is me who post in another 
board as Truth. When I came into this site posted my comment as 
Truth and realize that the date was back dated so I copy and 
pasted on this boad and change it to Fact Finder. It will be 
Fact Finder from now.

And thanks Missin for your comment, I am just commenting on what 
I learn. Should be hanging around.

The latest development, Taliban surrender, Should Mullah Omar 
and the hardliners of the Taliban be allow freedom? Just one 
week ago he was calling to fight to the death. Now he want to 
surrender or was he force to surrender?. What happen now? 
Answer, his own lives at stake. Has he chicken out? It is fair 
to those who died for his cause? And what about thousand who 
have died during his reign. Also who is going to answer for the 
death of Masoud (leader of Northern Alliance) and Mr Haz kill at 
the begining of this war when he was captured.

I feel all this hardliners are to be captured, gathered and sent 
to solidarity camp and re-educate them on Islam. The Allies can 
also learn from them about their organization and how they work 
but I doubt they will reveal.

Will Afghan be at peace? Still a big question mark. Even before 
the interim Goverment start 22nd Dec. We have a prominent 
Warlord General Dostum boycotting the meeting because he feel 
his group was not given enough power. Don't forget this man is 
the main force to attack Kabul and Kunduz. So the administration 
should pay more attention to this guy. 
Lets just hope and pray that these people, the goverment, the 
opposition and the people in general will work together to bring 
Afghan back to life. Peace be with them.

As for Mr Arafat. I don't think he is doing a good job. As one 
of the Isreal minister say he can be the best actor in West End. 
Now as of today at least we are seeing some real arrest that why 
the riot. As what the Isreal minister say, he can arrest 100 or 
200 in front of CNN OR BBC, bring them in the front door and 
release them by the back door. I just pray that he will be able 
to convince his people that peace can only be possible by 
arresting those who do not want peace.

Peace be with you all who want peace.

 We are the world, we are the children, we are the one who make 
the world a better place, so lets start giving. (forgiving)

Spy... I always look forward to reading your posts...Please 
don't  stop it just wouldn't be the same here....

I'll be here---just gonna try to hang back though.

But ---what do you mean or would you explain more about,
"things on this board are not quite as they appear in my 
opinion." 

anyhow --I'll be 'round.

JethroTull had a song years ago called "watching you, 
watching me, watching you". I always got a kick out of that.
This board reminds me of that.

I'll leave a message for you via Allatti2d's E-mail. I'll ask 
her to relay it to if you wish to E-mail her. I guess she may 
not be back 'till the week-end, so I won't E-mail her until she 
gets back. Wait until we can talk.. then make your mind up. Take 
care.

Thanks for the kind words.  They mean a lot. I have taken your 
thoughts into serious consideration and they make sense.  I am 
grateful for this board and happy that I am allowed to vent and 
cry.  THANKS! 

Well what d'you know yanks letting off bombs on allies again, 
there's a surprise

I have to make this short, have to get to the store, our dog
and cat are low on food and I dont want any Animal Rights
protesters burning down my house, its cold in the midwest.
 War protests. Famous since Vietnam, once the "in thing" to
be part of, they dont seem to be as popular anymore. I was
a kid during Vietnam but recall the nightly news images,
body counts apparently reporter everywhere, reporting everything,
citizens freaking out in more ways than one, then protesting,
all soldiers were baby killers. Flash to today, in America we
dont see blow by blow coverage, and there are virtually no
protests but then again Ho Chi didnt attack us in our country!
 Protesters must remember who protects their right to protest
and pay respect for the rights they have to the ones that give
them right. War is terrible, but as a citizen of the UK or
America relish the fact you can protest. I see a lotta happy
women in Afghanistan right now who didnt dare organize a protest
about their rights before this joint military action! I saw a
interview last night on 60 Minutes, I think, with a late teenager
, might have been 18, who had secretly snatching up everthing
available to read and learn English while the Taliban ruled.
This kid was so damn happy Im thought he would soil his pants
on TV! All he wanted was to see movies in English so he could
pick up some more phrases.
 As far as the Americans winning the war it seems obvious to me
that American, British and whoever else are not winning this
war, the Afghan people themselves are winning the war with
a considerable amount of help as in, BOOM BOOM. While Im near the
subject, I just laugh at people who say such things as "Americans
and/or British are cowards for just bombing, not on the ground
fighting hand to hand." No we are not, that would be called
STUPIDITY. Lets just throw away ant technological advantage we
have to fight fair. To those people I say, look for the results,
among other things (but Im trying to swear off swearing).
 The Afghan people are selling on the streets, TV dishes made
from scraped cans and such, I see no need to "impose" American
values on the Afghans, a democratic goverment and they will
be just fine. If I had the rescouces it might be a hell of a
business venture to open a new and used electronics megastore
in Kabal right now, but Im sure Best Buy, Walmart and all the
rest have their finger on the pulse of the world.
 Because the Afghans are going to have some serious disposable 
income from all the jobs to build that oil pipeline across
their country.
 Gotta run our dog is going to call the animal abuse hotline,
hes got it on speed dial.
 

 

Taliban John Walker = traiter!!!

He refuses to talk to CIA agents Spann just before he was 
killed. CIA has it on video tape - hahahahahaha!

Bye Bye Taliban Johnboy

http://www.msnbc.com/news/668588.asp

Spy, I was glad to see your post of hanging back rather than
goodbye. I also see the changes here, maybe differently than 
others see it. The obvious religeous aspect to everything is
not up my alley. Expecting lightning bolt now!
 Assrash has exposed himself completly here. Someone could
ask him about the weather in UAE and get a long sermon on how
the Jews are the cause of everthing bad that has ever happened
in the history of the world. Maybe there is some truth in his
early statements of being close to a terrorist, the UAE has
their share Im sure.
 What happened to EagleEye? Damn, nobody rips new poopshoots
like him. I miss that, especially with all the material that is
ripe for the pickin right now.
PEACE OUT

John Walker, the American Taliban loyalist, was accidently
killed today while held by American Marines in a small hut,
by himself, far removed from any troops or civilians.
 Apparently, it was a case of a bomb missing its target and
actually hitting a target. In any case, its all good!
 I got to get to sleep, looks like sweet dreams tonight.

How do ya like that? Virtual world we've created here. full of 
virtual people with virtually nothing for certain. In college, 
they used to say that we have to prepare for the "real world". 
Lo and behold, the real world seems pretty incredibly fake to 
me. I have to go to work and be someone I'm not all day just 
to come home and try to unwind until its time to sleep. 
Anyone have any idea where one can go be a chemist and 
not have to worry about putting on a dog and pony show all 
day? (not that this is the place to be looking for a job.) At 
least here I can type what I want to. If people don't like it, they 
just give me some verbal abuse and I can think about that 
what I want to. I come here because I'm not used to being 
treated so nicely verbally. Pretty cool.

I understand Spy wanting to hang back - I have been 
spending way too much time here. I think my wife is getting 
tired of me staring at the computer all evening. Perhaps I'll 
hang back too (it's hard to let go). Sorry to make people feel 
a bit uncomfortable by posting all the "religious" stuff. I know 
that that is not why a lot of people come to post here, but it 
turned out that there were some other Christians out there 
and its easier to relate. I like everyone's perspective though, 
so I don't want to hog conversation.

As far as Afghanistan goes. It looks like some very weird 
times. The Saleem Nayeef guy (the one we used to see 
lying on TV all the time) seems to want to cut a deal. That's 
just great..."We'll fight to the death!"
More like, "We'll fight for a little while then run all the way to 
Kandahar and then we'll give up because the man we 
worship (Mullah Omar) is in danger" Good grief! The chaos 
will probably last a while. Maybe it's time the US hangs out 
as the eye in the sky for a while until they have their stuff 
together.

Am I the only freak who is kind of curious as to what world 
war would look like nowadays? It's such a morbid thing to 
think about, but fascinating. Or am I just sick? I don't know, 
it's not easy being a being.
Llllllllllllllllamas!

Perhaps Friday is a good day for a break. I hope everyone 
has a great day and that those who seek peace will find it.
I'll say farewell with a fond animal adieu! 
BAAAAaaaaaaaAAAAA!

the religious aspect is very much part of
these attacks and resulting war.
it matters not whether one believes or not.
it is still a fact.
as we remember;Spy said he was of a Christian faith.
we don't feel you are hurting him.

Noah, thanks for reminding me to take a break from here too.
My daughter has been all over me about hogging the computer!
I actually oinked at her the other day!
 I was listening to the local news talking about some anti-gun 
group all over gun companys since the 9/11 attacks. Ithaca Co.
came out with a "Homeland Defender" model shotgun and I forget
the other company, has a 50 cal. "Turbin Chaser" rifle model.
I about fell to the floor laughing.
 Goodnight all.

http://www.arabnews.com/Article.asp?ID=11135

You're Welcome.

puke everything u have been fed. i think u have been overfed so 
much that ur mind refuses to do a little bit of soul searching. 
before u cry hoarse about any thing just sit back and introspect 
about everything. that way we might get fewer and fewer bomb 
explosions across the globe.

om/cf ur a skunk so skunk u so much.

The idea the the United states shouldn't fight anyone and feed 
everyone is the most idiotic idea everywhere. We have 
international interests because we need imports to survive. Oil 
for example. When our oil supply is threatened, we don't say-
 "oh no, too bad electric cars aren't efficient enough", we 
say "DAMN IT, GIVE ME MY OIL!". Japan did this, when WE exported 
oil. You know what they did? Does anyone know what pearl harbor 
is? They attacked us because we were refusing to export oil to 
warring nations. They bombed us. When Iran was overthrown, we 
gave money to Iraq to reestablish a system where we would have 
oil. 
    Persuing international interests is the key to a working 
system with so many members. I don't see why we should pay for 
the children to eat, when we already buy the oil...Its crazy. We 
aren't KILLING them, we're letting a bad government serve it's 
people the way it was designed to. Don't blame america because 
the middle east still lives in a moral stone age.
  So, when you cry foul, when sanctions "kill" babies (A cheap 
liberal statement that is unfounded), look at your clothes. 
Nylon? Do you have a car? Barbeques? You'd be surprised what 
comes from oil derivitives. You need that to survive. And a baby 
may need food to survive, but they also need a government that 
isn't going to cut their clitoris off, either.

The idea the the United states shouldn't fight anyone and feed 
everyone is the most idiotic idea everywhere. We have 
international interests because we need imports to survive. Oil 
for example. When our oil supply is threatened, we don't say-
 "oh no, too bad electric cars aren't efficient enough", we 
say "DAMN IT, GIVE ME MY OIL!". Japan did this, when WE exported 
oil. You know what they did? Does anyone know what pearl harbor 
is? They attacked us because we were refusing to export oil to 
warring nations. They bombed us. When Iran was overthrown, we 
gave money to Iraq to reestablish a system where we would have 
oil. 
    Persuing international interests is the key to a working 
system with so many members. I don't see why we should pay for 
the children to eat, when we already buy the oil...Its crazy. We 
aren't KILLING them, we're letting a bad government serve it's 
people the way it was designed to. Don't blame america because 
the middle east still lives in a moral stone age.
  So, when you cry foul, when sanctions "kill" babies (A cheap 
liberal statement that is unfounded), look at your clothes. 
Nylon? Do you have a car? Barbeques? You'd be surprised what 
comes from oil derivitives. You need that to survive. And a baby 
may need food to survive, but they also need a government that 
isn't going to cut their clitoris off, either.

As I have stated, I'm not religious, but I do RESPECT all those 
who choose to practice their respective faith's in a peaceful 
manner. 

theE.S.D: Religion is not my 'cup of tea' as a topic, but 
however, I very much understand it has relevance in the current 
crisis. If you have any further questions in the future on this 
aspect of the crisis, I won't mind answering them as best I can 
if it helps your contribution here. No reply required sir(s) 
madam(s):). 

Noah: I think you've expressed your views on religion well. 
They're heartfelt and sincere. Personaly, as far topics of 
discussion are concerned, I like variety including religion if 
need be, just only from time to time. The reason I say that, is 
that not being religious to any great degree I simply feel it's 
sometimes not my place to say anything on religious matters. 
But, I do nevertheless enjoy your posts on religion.

Everyman: Your post on Arafat rings true with Gerry Adams (Sinn 
Fein) in the Irish situation. Both as young turks, they seemed 
by all account to be actively engaged in terrorism in their 
youth. Both/neither may or may not have been sincere in 
distancing themselves from their terrorist pasts. The events of 
Sept 11 however brought their activities into sharp focus once 
again, both knowing that they were once again exposed to 
scrutiny in the current climate of intolerance towards 
terrorism. Their pasts now seem to be catching up with them, 
however worthy their causes might have been for which they 
fought. Gerry Adams had certainly gone on the charm offensive 
soon after Sept 11. Now that he and his political wing have a 
taste of real political power, he has more far more to loose and 
will act the part of the charming politician. However his past 
may one day, just catch up with him too if he's not careful.

Missin': Do you E-mail allatti2d? If you do I'll leave a message 
for you with her in a few days. Just in case you were wondering 
it was in answer to your ealier question to me.

To all the above, best wishes.

U.K.Citizen    

Your schedual for today:
Wake up. Smoke dope. Pick flowers to take to your imaginary
war protest. Smoke more dope. Apply for food stamps. Smoke
dope again. Nobody shows for protest. Calm self down
with Ommmm, Ommmmm, and dope.
 Have you tried lighting yourself on fire as a protest? Its a
real attention getter.
 You should have been with John Walker in Afghanistan.
Peace Out

Morning All!
It's just a matter of hours until I get to take my weekly break 
as well...can't wait to get back to the woods where we don't 
even watch the news.

Religion-I too think that we nearly HAVE to consider religion
(dogma) as important in these discussions since that is the very 
basis of why we were attacked, of what is happing between Israel 
and the Palestinians, and the only comfort some of us can find 
(faith).  I think MOST of us have shown respect for all 
religions in our posts.  The ones who perhaps haven't at times, 
I'll assume are just so angry that they lash out at everything 
that is part of the culture that attacked us.  I hope that those 
of you that stay here more for the war aspects will forgive 
those of us that seek the underlying meanings in an attempt to 
understand.

John Walker-If we make allowances for him because he's an 
American who was "misled"...does that mean we should make 
allowances for all the Muslims who were also misled?  War is 
war...he chose his side and should be punished in the exact same 
manner as those he sided with.  And, I hope that those who think 
that our actions at the prison were too harsh will read his 
interview that was on MSN yesterday.  They were given no less 
than three chances to surrender peacefully AFTER they were in 
the prison.  Each time, they chose to attack the guards and 
workers again.  Each time, they were put BACK into the 
basement.  They chose the only destruction they had the right to 
choose...their own.

Justice U.S.A., if anything I ever say in my life gives comfort 
to one such as you, then I am grateful that I had the 
opportunity to speak.  I was in New York in August.  I was 
showing my pictures of the trip to a friend a couple of weeks 
ago.  I had taken a beautiful picture from a dinner cruise of 
the towers at sunset.  When I came to that picture...the pain 
came back full force for me.  I can only imagine how you must 
feel everyday.  Feel free to lean on me anytime.

FactFinder, I find it amazing that your opinions mirror those of 
so many (dare I say MOST) Americans.  I'd like to know where you 
are...only in a rough sense, not exactly, so that I might 
understand what news you're getting.  The article I read 
yesterday said that the leaders of the Taliban would NOT receive 
amnesty...but were negotiating to save their own hides.

One who posts as "God's son", not everyone here spouts hate.  I 
think that there is a danger in lumping together all people in a 
group as being the same.  Whether that be Muslims, Jews, 
Americans, or posters on this board.  I do appreciate that you 
have toned down the language while you are posting under that 
name.  

Smiley,  I agree with what you are saying about how God works 
now.  But, before the New Covenant that came with Christ(maybe 
someone can help me with the exact verse that says something 
like "I will write my laws on the heart of every man so that all 
may know me." Meaning the point where he sent the Holy Spirit to 
each of us to guide and teach us.) God often DID cause wars to 
occur, didn't he?  Remember how some of the prophets had to BEG 
God to reconsider his actions?  The time frame would have been 
right for God to have actually taken action to set these 
brothers against one another.  I think it was only with the 
coming of Christ and the New Covenant that God took the hands 
off approach.  Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.  I am 
seeking knowledge here, and certainly DO NOT know everything I 
need to.  I appreciate your input here, by the way.

N.C. Gal, I'm glad to hear that your son is well...pass on some 
gratitude to him and his fellow soldiers for me?  Thanks!

In the day it seems fair and wild,
as the dusk comes I feel my inner child.
Color cascades across the sky,
as the sunset brings soft whispers to my eye.
The moon comes bright and full with the winter stars,
The universe speaks it's magic with a passion from so far.
          

Bizarre,
>
> It's freezing here. I'm sitting on hard, cold dirt between 
rocks and
> shrubs at the base of the Hindu Kush mountains along the 
Dar 'yoi Pomir
> River
> watching a hole that leads to a tunnel that leads to a cave.
>
> Stake out, my friend, and no pizza delivery for thousands of 
miles. I
> also glance at the area around my ass every ten to fifteen 
seconds to
avoid
> another scorpion sting. I've actually given up battling the 
chiggers and
> sand fleas, but them damn scorpions give a jolt like a cattle 
prod.
> Hurts like a bastard. The antidote tastes like transmission 
fluid but
> God bless the Marine Corps for the five vials of it in my pack.
>
> The one truth the Taliban cannot escape is that, believe it or 
not, they
> are human beings, which means they have to eat food and drink 
water.
> That requires couriers and that's where an old bounty hunter 
like me
> comes in handy. I track the couriers, locate the tunnel 
entrances and
> storage
> facilities, type the info into the handheld, shoot the 
coordinates up to
> the satellite link that tells the air commanders where to drop 
the
hardware,
> we bash some heads for a while, then I track and record the 
new movement.
> It's all about intelligence. We haven't even brought in the 
snipers yet.
> These scurrying rats have no idea what they're in for. We are 
but days
away
> from cutting off supply lines and allowing the eradication to 
begin. I
dream
> of bin Laden waking up to find me standing over him with my 
boot on his
> throat as I spit a bloody ear into his face and plunge my 
nickel-plated
> Bowie
> knife through his frontal lobe. But you know me. I'm a 
romantic.
>
> I've said it before and I'll say it again: This country blows, 
man.
> It's not even a country. There are no roads, there's no 
infrastructure,
> there's no government. This is an inhospitable, rockpit 
craphole ruled by
> eleventh century warring tribes. There are no jobs here like 
we know jobs.
> Afghanistan offers two ways for a man to support his family:  
Join the
> opium trade or join the army. That's it. Those are your 
options. Oh, I
> forgot,
> you can also live in a refugee camp and eat plum-sweetened, 
crushed beetle
> paste and squirt mud like a goose with stomach flu if that's 
your idea of
a
> party. But the smell alone of those "tent cities of the 
walking dead" is
> enough
> to hurl you into the poppy fields to cheerfully scrape bulbs 
for eighteen
> hours a day. And let me tell you something else. I've been 
living with
these
> Tajiks and Uzbeks and Turkmen and even a couple of Pushtins 
for over a
> month and a half now and this much I can say for sure: These 
guys, all of
> em,
> are Huns.
>
> Actual, living Huns. They LIVE to fight. It's what they do. 
It's ALL
> they do. They have no respect for anything, not for their 
families or for
> each other or for themselves. They claw at one another as a 
way of life.
> They
> play polo with dead calves and force their five year old sons 
into human
> cockfights to defend the family honor. Huns, roaming packs of 
savage,
> heartless beasts who feed on each other's barbarism. Damn 
cavemen with
> AK 47's.
>
> Then again, maybe I'm just cranky. I'm freezing on this stupid 
hill
> because my lap warmer is running out of juice and I can't 
recharge it
until
> the
> sun comes up in a few hours. Oh yeah! You like to write 
letters, right?
> Do me a favor, Bizarre. Write a letter to CNN and tell Judy 
and Bernie
> and that awful, sneering, pompous Aaron Brown to stop calling 
the Taliban
> "smart."
> They are not smart. I suggest CNN invest in a dictionary 
because the word
> they are looking for is
> "cunning." The Taliban are cunning, like jackals and hyenas and
wolverines.
> They
> are sneaky and ruthless and, when confronted, cowardly. They 
are hateful,
> malevolent parasites who create nothing and destroy everything 
else.
> Smart. Pfft. Yeah, they're real smart. They've spent their 
entire lives
> reading only
> one book (and not a very good one, as books go) and consider 
hygiene and
> indoor plumbing to be products of the devil. They're still 
figuring out
how
> to
> work a Bic lighter. Talking to a Taliban warrior about 
improving his
quality
> of life is like trying to teach an ape how to hold a pen; 
eventually he
> just gets frustrated and sticks you in the eye with it.
> OK, enough. Sun'll be up soon so I have to get back to my hole.
> Covering my tracks in the snow takes a lot of practice but I'm 
getting
> good at it. Please tell my fellow Americans to turn off their 
TV sets and
> move on with their lives. The story line you are getting from 
CNN is utter
> crap
> and designed not to deliver truth but rather to keep you glued 
to the
screen
> through the commercials. We've got this one under control.
> The worst thing you guys can do right now is sit around 
analyzing what
> we're doing over here because you have no idea what we're 
doing and,
really,
> you don't want to know. We are your military and we are doing 
what you
sent
> us here to do. You wanna help? Buy some stocks, America."

Thanks, 

Nice.  Where did you get that?

Thank You!!  ...and we are moving on with our lives, thanks to 
you.

John
E...

actually, I'm addressing the author.    What a great stirring 
piece of work.  Thanks for sharing it.

We are but 3 months from 9/11.  So much accomplished, thanks to 
our fine soldiers and our both elected and appointed leaders.

John
E...

"Please tell my fellow Americans to turn off their 
TV sets and move on with their lives. The story line you are 
getting from CNN is utter crap and designed not to deliver truth 
but rather to keep you glued to the screen through the 
commercials. We've got this one under control. The worst thing 
you guys can do right now is sit around analyzing what we're 
doing over here because you have no idea what we're doing and,
really, you don't want to know. We are your military and we are 
doing what you sent us here to do. You wanna help? Buy some 
stocks, America."

hehehehe ..... Guuuuut One!

I do wanna know what the "HUNS" are up to though ......  and I 
have headed this characters advice .....  Go Adobe,  Go CISCO !!!

Us old Wizards have our sources..
just a letter sent home to a friend of mine.
I feel it will all be over soon, but do be extra careful during 
the week before Christmas. I sense around 19th a dark cloud in 
my crystal ball, so to speak. My insight hasn't steered me wrong 
yet. From what I can tell the war may all be over by the end of 
the year. The "dark cloud" smells like Saddam, so be aware. as 
far as I can tell it could be his last mistake, I am hoping so.
  I was given a flash vision in May of the 9-11 disaster, turns 
out that is when the terrorists entered the country. As the 
vision unfolded it was like living a dream, a very bad one.
The gift of future sight is often a bane and never pleasant, 
kind of worries me when it happens, but it has never been wrong.
            With hope of peace /|\ 

You are right that God not only helped the Israelites win their 
wars he actively pursued these actions through His chosen people.  
When I said God does not cause strife between people I meant He 
does not cause individuals to sin against each other.  God makes 
a distinction between war and murder.  Countries go to war, 
individuals murder.  If you kill someone as an act of war ( I am 
speaking strictly in terms of a 'righteous' war) God does not 
condemn you as a murderer.  How could He when He led His people 
into battle so many times?   That does not mean that murder 
cannot be commited under the guise of war.  David had Bathsheba's 
husband murdered using their current war to achieve his end.  
Again, he was acting on, and as, an individual, not a country.

In the case of Jacob and Esau, however, Jacob was acting in a 
sinful manner because he and his mother coveted (sinned) that 
which Esau had (his birth right.)  They lied to (sinned) Isaac to 
get him to bless Jacob with that which was rightfully Esau's.  
Now, God in His wisdom, knew from the beginning of time that 
these events would occur and used these people's bents to 
accomplish His plan but still did not cause them to commit the 
sin.  It was THEIR jealousy and selfishness that caused them to 
act in such a manner.  

I hope that makes sense.  I am no Bible scholar to be sure but I 
do know that God cannot sin and he cannot cause people to sin.  

I do agree with you about the change in God's approach to 
handling people in the change from the Old to the New testament.  
Are these the verses you are looking for?  


Hebrews 10:1-25 For the law having a shadow of good things to 
come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with 
those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make 
the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased 
to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should 
have had no more conscience of sins.  But in those [sacrifices 
there is] a remembrance again [made] of sins every year.  For [it 
is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take 
away sins.  Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, 
Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou 
prepared me:  In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou 
hast had no pleasure.  Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of 
the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.  Above when 
he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and 
[offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure 
[therein]; which are offered by the law;  Then said he, Lo, I 
come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may 
establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through 
the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].  And 
every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes 
the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:  But this 
man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat 
down on the right hand of God;  From henceforth expecting till 
his enemies be made his footstool.  For by one offering he hath 
perfected for ever them that are sanctified.  [Whereof] the Holy 
Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 
>>>>>This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after 
those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, 
and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and 
iniquities will I  remember no more.  Now where remission of 
these [is, there is] no more offering for sin.<<<<<<  Having 
therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the 
blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath 
consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 
And [having] an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw 
near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our 
hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed 
with pure water.  Let us hold fast the profession of [our] faith 
without wavering; (for he [is] faithful that promised;) And let 
us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner 
of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, 
as ye see the day approaching.

Just a little ice-breaker...



The Truth About Reindeer

According to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game,
while both male and female reindeer grow antlers in the
summer each year, male reindeer drop their antlers at
the beginning of winter, ...usually late November to
mid-December.  Female reindeer retain their antlers until after 
they give
birth in the spring.

Therefore, according to every historical rendition depicting 
Santa's
reindeer, every single one of them, from Rudolph to 
Blitzen....had to be
a girl.

...We should've known.
Only women would be able to drag a fat man in a red
velvet suit all around the world in one night, and not
get lost.

Smiley, excellent point! And, thanks for the verse as well.

Everyman, can ya see me winking at you! Loved your post!

12/07/2001 : "Lawmakers Urge Bush to Make Iraq Next 
Target" 

Ten leading members of Congress have urged President 
Bush to make Iraq the next target in the U.S. war on 
terrorism, saying it has reinvigorated its weapons programs 
in the three years since U.N. inspectors left.

``As we work to clean up Afghanistan, it is imperative that we 
plan to eliminate the threat from Iraq,'' said the letter, dated 
Wednesday.

``This December will mark three years since United Nations 
inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that 
time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons 
programs.''

Among those signing the letter were Senate Minority Leader 
Trent Lott, House International Relations Committee 
Chairman Henry Hyde, the ranking Republican on the 
Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Jesse Helms, former 
presidential candidate Sen. John McCain (news - bio - 
voting record) and former Democratic vice presidential 
candidate Sen. Joseph Lieberman (news - bio - voting 
record).

The letter is the latest in a string of calls for a renewed 
offensive against Iraq and Saddam Hussein once the 
Afghanistan campaign ends.

The U.S. launched its war on Afghanistan after its ruling 
Taliban refused to give up Osama bin Laden and his al 
Qaeda network, blamed for the Sept. 11 attack on the United 
States that killed nearly 4,000 people.

Sen. Helms acknowledged in a speech on Wednesday that 
the United States does not know if Saddam was directly 
involved with the Sept. 11 attacks. Still, he said, ``there is a 
mountain of evidence linking him to international terrorism 
generally and to bin Laden's terrorist network specifically.''

In their letter, the lawmakers said international sanctions 
levied against Iraq are riddled with loopholes and illegal oil 
sales could not be contained by the administration.

``Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear 
programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War 
status,'' the letter said, adding: ``We believe we must directly 
confront Saddam, sooner rather than later.

``The threat from Iraq is real, and it cannot be permanently 
contained,'' the letter said.

U.N. inspectors, who had been working since the 1991 Gulf 
War to ensure Baghdad did not develop weapons of mass 
destruction, left Iraq in December 1998.

The lawmakers also urged support for the Iraqi National 
Congress (INC), saying the United States had learned from 
Afghanistan the importance of working effectively with local 
opposition on the ground.

A leader of the INC, Ahmed Chalabi, met on Thursday with 
the Republican policy conference on Capitol Hill.

Bush recently demanded that Saddam allow weapons 
inspections to resume and said he would ``find out'' the 
consequences if he refused.

But Secretary of State Colin Powell told NATO ally Turkey on 
Wednesday that the United States had no immediate plans 
to extend its war on terrorism to Iraq

Source:WASHINGTON (Reuters) 



12/06/2001: "Congress Letter to President Bush regarding 
Iraq" 

Congress of the United States
Washington, DC 20515

December 5, 2001


The Honorable George W. Bush
President of the United States
The White House
Washington, D.C. 20500

Dear Mr. President:

The events of September 11 have highlighted the 
vulnerability of the United States to determine terrorists. As 
we work to clean up Afghanistan and destroy al Qaeda, it is 
imperative that we plan to eliminate the threat from Iraq.

This December will mark three years since United Nations 
inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that 
time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons 
programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and 
nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to 
pre-Gulf war status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine 
delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit 
missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will 
threaten the United States and our allies.

For much of the last year, the Administration has struggled 
to plug loopholes in the international sanctions against Iraq. 
Unfortunately, efforts to coopt Saddam s illegal trading 
partners - particularly Syria - have failed. In the meantime, 
the illegal oil trade from Iraq has flourished, and Saddam 
now earns an estimated $2 billion annually, much of which 
he has devoted to his military and his illegal weapons 
programs.

If we have learned one thing from the ongoing battle in 
Afghanistan, is that working effectively in coordination with 
locals on the ground can significantly leverage our own use 
of military force. While we have no doubt that in the long run, 
the United States will always prevail in battle with the likes of 
the Taliban (not to speak of Saddam Hussein), we also 
know that we can minimize casualties and shorten conflict 
by cooperating with opposition forces. That has been a key 
element of US strategy for several decades.

Since the passage of the Iraq Liberation Act three years ago, 
we have fought to provide support for Iraqis inside Iraq. The 
Iraqi National Congress (INC), an umbrella group of all the 
significant anti-Saddam forces inside Iraq, has consistently 
requested Administration assistance for operations on the 
ground in Iraq ranging from the delivery of humanitarian 
assistance and information-gathering to military arid 
technical training and lethal military draw down.

Despite the express wishes of the Congress, the INC has 
been denied U.S. assistance for any operations inside any 
part of Iraq, including liberated Kurdish areas. Instead, 
successive Administrations have funded conferences, 
offices and other intellectual exercises that have done
little more than expose the INC to accusations of being 
 limousine insurgents  and  armchair guerillas . We note 
the troubling similarity of these accusations to charges 
made against the Afghan guerillas now helping us win the 
war against the Taliban.

The threat from Iraq is real, and it cannot be permanently 
contained. For as long as Saddam Hussein is in power in 
Baghdad, he will seek to acquire weapons of mass 
destruction and the means to deliver them. We have no 
doubt that these deadly weapons are intended for use 
against the United States and its allies. Consequently, we 
believe we must directly confront Saddam, sooner rather 
than later. Without allies on the ground inside Iraq, we will 
be handicapping our own efforts. Each day that passes 
costs us an opportunity to unite and professionalize the Iraqi 
opposition, thus ensuring it will be less capable when the 
conflict begins.

Again, we can learn from our experience in Afghanistan. We 
cannot be drawn into the ethnic polities of any particular 
nation, but should find a way to work with all the opposition 
in a unified frame work, The Iraqi National Congress is the 
only umbrella organization comprising all elements of the 
Iraqi opposition. No one group is excluded, no one group is 
favored.

Mr. President, all indications are that in the interest of our 
own national security, Saddam Hussein must be removed 
from power. Let us maximize the likelihood of a rapid victory 
by beginning immediately to assist the Iraqi Opposition on 
the ground inside Iraq by providing them money and 
assistance already authorized and appropriated.

We look forward to working with you on this most important 
matter.

Sincerely,

Signed by:
Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona
Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman, D-Connecticut
Jesse Helms, R-N Carolina the ranking Republican on the 
Senate Foreign Relations Committee
Trent Lott, R-Mississippi Senate Minority Leader
Henry J. Hyde, R-Illinois House International Relations 
Committee Chairman
Richard C. Shelby, Alabama the ranking Republican on the 
Senate Intelligence Committee
Sen. Sam Brownsback
Sen.Harold Ford Jr.
Sen. Benjamin Gilmore

Thank you sir, for your opinions and your insight from an 
American's perpective on what I posted.

Our cat wants nothing to do with me unless it's hungry. It 
obviously knows me well.

Thanks again.

I find it disturbing that the majority of Taliban fighters are 
Pakistani--so how many Afghani citizens were actually a part of 
the AlQueda?  

You have days... maybe hours left to live. That's far too long 
you fuckin' bastard. We have spent too much time kicking your 
pussy ass. Pray to Allah, 'cuz we're sending you to him.

Comeon Kevin,you can't believe all that stuff you see on TV.If I 
come to America,can I stay at your house?Since I've been staying 
at the"Cave"I really am getting good at the Playstation2 
games(not much else to do).I'll bet I could whup your ass at any 
PS/2 game!I also have a Dreamcast,but I can't get any games for 
it lately.

Ronald McDonald rules Afghanistan, Spreads happy meals!!
Micky mouse controlls mass production factory of new Jewish 
G.I.joe dolls in Afghanistan!! Bart Simpson will be the sheriff 
& Judge Judy will preside in the courts! Ex presadent Clinton 
will open a porno tabloid stand!  

As slowly as the wheels turn in Washington, maybe Merlyn's 
vision of Hussein's fatal mistake will happen first.  We can 
hope, I suppose.  Just one question, Merlyn. Please tell me that 
it won't be as bad as 9/11?

Here is a question for everyone.  If it meant the end of 
Hussein, would it be worth a fatal mistake...even if the death 
toll was only ONE American?  How about if it was ONE Israeli?
Something to ponder, eh?  As bad as I want him buried, I'd have 
a hard time hoping that he'd succeed in his mistake...whatever 
it might be.

Me? I'm outta here! The pine trees are calling me...
Y'all have a GREAT weekend...get some air and exercise, don't 
smoke or drink too much.  See ya on Monday.

Read and enjoy...

"To date, the number of US troops killed since the war began 
is around 500. 
Details are given below, from authentic sources based inside 
Afghanistan."
But the "authentic sources" are Taliban?? At least, they are 
pro-Taliban. And we'd have to "open our eyes" with all this 
bullshit that "we needed badly", you fool?

"The Taliban have confirmed that their withdrawal from 
the cities was purely strategic in order to protect the 
cities and the civilians from American bombardment."
Don't make us laugh!

"The Taliban leader, Mullah Muhammad Umar, has vowed to fight 
the Americans to the last breath as the war enters a different 
phase." 
What a different phase? Don't make us laugh again!

"The Muslims are urged not to despair at the state of affairs in 
Afghanistan because Allah's will changes the tides of war."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
But don't you Muslims see how ridiculous you hare?
 
"Even if the Americans use weapons of mass destruction..."
Do you know what they are? The ones Saddam Hussain is producing 
and Bin Laden is getting for using them against civilians in 
the U.S.

"Since the arrival of the Northern Alliance in areas previously 
held by the Taliban, poppy cultivation has been started again on 
a very large scale (confirmed by the UN) with the encouragement 
of Americans."
But don't you see what for foolish things are these? Don't you 
know Americans at the begin of the war even bombed a few poppy 
plantations?

"Earlier this week, a number of Taliban Mujahideen were killed 
during US airstrikes close to the town of Takhta Pul on the 
highway between Kandahar and the Pakistani border. Another 160 
of them who were captured, were executed in cold blood whilst 
being filmed by US troops. Obviously, the World does not raise 
an eyebrow at these 'human rights violations'.
'Human rights violations'? The killed and the executed Talibans
simply deserved it. 

"In the presence and auspices of American soldiers, the 
protectors of human rights, General Dostum walked over the 
bodies of the martyred Mujahideen in the prison fortress of Qala-
e-Jhangi, while his soldiers drove tanks over their bodies to 
make sure they were dead. It is reported that an incredible 
number of rapes by his soldiers took place, also under the 
observation of US troops. These uncivilized soldiers were also 
seen by the whole world beating and shooting prisoners, kicking 
the bodies of the Mujahideen and even extracting the golden 
fillings from the mouths of Taliban who were martyred."
Yeah, and do you think your Talibans are better?
 
"The soldiers of the Northern Alliance captured around 10 wives 
of the Foreign Mujahideen and raped them several times before 
making them slaves. These women were from families who had tried 
to cross over to Pakistan, but were prevented at the border by 
Pakistani troops under the orders of the US Government."
Strange! And if they were Afghan, how comes they were "wives of 
the Foreign Mujahideen" you idiot?? 

"America and the whole world are accessories to these 
mutilations, massacres, rapes and mass injustices and owing to 
the fact that they are committed under their own eyes and 
protection."
Talibans are even worse.
What, they are committed under American "protection", you fool?

"The Mujahideen inform the people that they are well and remind 
the Muslims not to be deceived or depressed by reading the lies 
of the Western media."
Oh, the "lies" aren't of the Islam media (you fool)? You just 
need to notice these passages I've quoted to see who are the 
liers.

"And where are the thousands of Taliban soldiers who 
strategically withdrew from Kabul and surrounding areas? The US 
soldiers on the ground will soon find out where they are with 
the Help of Allah."
Oh, we have found out now (with the Help of Allah) "where they 
were". (I admit I'm upsetting your sensibilities - not sorry).

"See - it works.  Now do you realise that there can be other 
points of view in the world?"
Oh, sure we do. And you are right showing THE QUALITY of such 
points of view. It's a good idea.

"Just like you see this as propaganda, there are loads of 
equally mystified people watching your news and treating your 
news as propaganda".
We aren't mystified at all in seeing this bullshit as naive 
propaganda, because it is. 
The "loads" of mystified people are Islam.

"Western Media is being seen as a big filter to stop real news 
getting out."
Even if in war time news always get partly distorted and biased,
CAN NEVER BE any comparison between the 2 ways of reporting 
pieces. It's useless that you try and illuse yourself.

"Your media and government have a roven track record of lies, 
deceit and immoral behaviour."
U.S. media? And why?
About U.S. governors, actually they aren't angels - in which 
country on earth they are? - but anyway about lies, deceit 
and immoral behaviours you Islam shouldn't even have to talk.

"Has the FBI pulled its head out of its bottom and found 
anyone yet?  I hear they're too busy rounding up innocent 
arabs / muslims around America and then executng them."
What, "executing them"?? I suppose you even believed it.
Get real guy.

"Why do your black/asian post-office workers get treated so 
badly and why are they left exposed to the Anthrax whereas the 
rest of the people get special treatment?"
And who said it?

"Learn form us and you won't be attacked so badly in future."
Sounds very Walter-like...

"What's this about your biggest energy company going bust?  
Don't worry - it's only money.  Oh, I forgot, that's what you 
guys worship."
Likely, besides evil and stupidity you worship money too.

Read and enjoy...

"To date, the number of US troops killed since the war began is 
around 500. 
Details are given below, from authentic sources based inside 
Afghanistan."
But the "authentic sources" are Taliban?? At least, they are 
pro-Taliban. And we'd have to "open our eyes" with all this 
bullshit that "we needed badly", you fool?

"The Taliban have confirmed that their withdrawal from the 
cities was purely strategic in order to protect the cities and 
the civilians from American bombardment."
Don't make us laugh!

"The Taliban leader, Mullah Muhammad Umar, has vowed to fight 
the Americans to the last breath as the war enters a different 
phase." 
What a different phase? Don't make us laugh again!

"The Muslims are urged not to despair at the state of affairs in 
Afghanistan because Allah's will changes the tides of war."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
But don't you Muslims see how ridiculous you hare?
 
"Even if the Americans use weapons of mass destruction..."
Do you know what they are? The ones Saddam Hussain is producing 
and Bin Laden is getting for using them against civilians in 
the U.S.

"Since the arrival of the Northern Alliance in areas previously 
held by the Taliban, poppy cultivation has been started again on 
a very large scale (confirmed by the UN) with the encouragement 
of Americans."
But don't you see what for foolish things are these? Don't you 
know Americans at the begin of the war even bombed a few poppy 
plantations?

"Earlier this week, a number of Taliban Mujahideen were killed 
during US airstrikes close to the town of Takhta Pul on the 
highway between Kandahar and the Pakistani border. Another 160 
of them who were captured, were executed in cold blood whilst 
being filmed by US troops. Obviously, the World does not raise 
an eyebrow at these 'human rights violations'.
'Human rights violations'? The killed and the executed Talibans
simply deserved it. 

"In the presence and auspices of American soldiers, the 
protectors of human rights, General Dostum walked over the 
bodies of the martyred Mujahideen in the prison fortress of 
Qala-e-Jhangi, while his soldiers drove tanks over their bodies 
to make sure they were dead. It is reported that an incredible 
number of rapes by his soldiers took place, also under the 
observation of US troops. These uncivilized soldiers were also 
seen by the whole world beating and shooting prisoners, kicking 
the bodies of the Mujahideen and even extracting the golden 
fillings from the mouths of Taliban who were martyred."
Yeah, and do you think your Talibans are better?
 
"The soldiers of the Northern Alliance captured around 10 wives 
of the Foreign Mujahideen and raped them several times before 
making them slaves. These women were from families who had tried 
to cross over to Pakistan, but were prevented at the border by 
Pakistani troops under the orders of the US Government."
Strange! And if they were Afghan, how comes they were "wives of 
the Foreign Mujahideen" you idiot?? 

"America and the whole world are accessories to these 
mutilations, massacres, rapes and mass injustices and owing to 
the fact that they are committed under their own eyes and 
protection."
Talibans are even worse.
What, they are committed under American "protection", you fool?

"The Mujahideen inform the people that they are well and remind 
the Muslims not to be deceived or depressed by reading the lies 
of the Western media."
Oh, the "lies" aren't of the Islam media (you fool)? You just 
need to notice these passages I've quoted to see who are the 
liers.

"And where are the thousands of Taliban soldiers who 
strategically withdrew from Kabul and surrounding areas? The US 
soldiers on the ground will soon find out where they are with 
the Help of Allah."
Oh, we have found out now (with the Help of Allah) "where they 
were". (I admit I'm upsetting your sensibilities - not 
sorry).

"See - it works.  Now do you realise that there can be other 
points of view in the world?"
Oh, sure we do. And you are right showing THE QUALITY of such 
points of view. It's a good idea.

"Just like you see this as propaganda, there are loads of 
equally mystified people watching your news and treating your 
news as propaganda.  
We aren't mystified at all in seeing this bullshit as naive 
propaganda, because it is. 
The "loads" of mystified people are typically Islam.

"Western Media is being seen as a big filter to stop real news 
getting out."
Even if in war time news always get partly distorted and biased,
CAN NEVER BE any comparison between the 2 ways of reporting 
pieces. It's useless that you try and illuse yourself.

"Your media and government have a roven track record of lies, 
deceit and immoral behaviour."
U.S. media? And why?
About U.S. governors, actually they aren't angels - in which 
country on earth they are? - but anyway about lies, deceit 
and immoral behaviours you Islam shouldn't even have to talk.

"Has the FBI pulled its head out of its bottom and found 
anyone yet?  I hear they're too busy rounding up innocent 
arabs / muslims around America and then executng them."
What, "executing them"?? I suppose you even believed it.
Get real guy.

"Why do your black/asian post-office workers get treated so 
badly and why are they left exposed to the Anthrax whereas the 
rest of the people get special treatment?"
And who said it?

"Learn form us and you won't be attacked so badly in future."
Sounds very Walter-like...

"What's this about your biggest energy company going bust?  
Don't worry - it's only money.  Oh, I forgot, that's what you 
guys worship."
Likely, besides evil and stupidity you worship money too.

Let's see if within X-mas we get the GREAT piece of news....

I would like to think Saddam is an ignorant sand sucker like 
Osama, but he's not. The most likely thing is for him to "jump 
in" the Afghanistan war. At least that is what seems likely to 
me. It would be his last jump. Just stay safe and keep your eyes 
open. I am doing everything a wizard can do to stop him. Let's 
hope I succeede. 
           Merlyn /|\

Osama Family's Suspicious Site 
By Howard Altman 

2:00 a.m. Nov. 9, 2001 PST  
      
 For the price of registering a domain name, a 30-year-old Web 
designer from Los Angeles has bought a bizarre piece of Internet 
history. 

On Oct. 27, Christopher Curry's company, Shrimpo.com, purchased 
a domain name that once belonged to the Saudi Binladin Group, 
the international construction conglomerate owned by the family 
of public enemy No. 1, Osama bin Laden. 

What makes Saudi-binladin-group.com so interesting is not just 
that it was once an official SBG website, but that it was 
registered on Sept. 11, 2000, with a pre-set expiration date of 
Sept. 11, 2001, according to a "whois" search of the Internet 
domain registry VeriSign. 



 
 

I think that - exept the detail of the "2000 years ago", the 
fact that he meant satan not satin, and the fact that he hates 
Jews and Muslims together - he has reason.

You would think that.

I just kept hearing this song going through my head.  I don't 
know why; and I thought, "No, I'm not going to sully a nice 
Christmas song with verses about the Taliban."  However, it just 
wouldn't leave me alone!  So, I started writing, and this is 
what came of it.  Thought I'd share it here.


O' TALIBAN

O Taliban, O Taliban!
How are thy strongholds withering!
O Taliban, O Taliban,
How are thy strongholds withering!

Not only Kabul s, no longer thine,
But even in caves you're targets prime.
O Taliban, O Taliban,
How are thy strongholds withering!

O Taliban, O Taliban,
Much pleasure doth it bring me!
O Taliban, O Taliban,
Much pleasure doth it bring me!

For every woman that is free,
To celebrate with joy and glee.
O Taliban, O Taliban,
Much pleasure doth it bring me!

O Taliban, O Taliban,
Shine thy candles brightly!
O Taliban, O Taliban,
Shine thy candles brightly!

Each cave that holds it s tiny light,
Will make each bomb to sparkle bright.
O Taliban, O Taliban,
Shine thy candles brightly!
 2001 Everyman





 
 

Excuse me for asking this question, but what excatly is the aim 
of your post to me? Is it a critisism of the way my posts come 
across. I don't pretend to report news in the fashion in which 
theE.S.D. reports it. We all have inbuilt bias to some degree. 
When I look at the reports from theE.S.D they seem from my 
perspective completely devoid of bias one way or another. I'm NO 
E.S.D., and don't pretent to be! My view are biased in that they 
are pro-American, that's how I feel. The posts I put forward are 
with that in mind. I know full well that NO COUNTRY has a 
monopoloy on what's good and what's right, but all in all I'd 
rather have America be the world's superpower than anybody else. 
That information theE.S.D presents for example, to someone who 
is not looking for bias in what they read, would say such 
information is put in a possibly more responsible way than I 
have done it. Is that your question?. Excuse me for being a 
little 'hazy' on the subject. I'm sorry Italian guy, but I just 
don't get the aim of your post? Or are you making an allegations 
of some kind? Please explain.

Italian guy, you and I have never posted, but you sure seem to 
have a lot on your mind. Is it the case that I've upset you, by 
any chance? Again, please explain?

NewsFlash--SmallPoxsAlert

In scanning the posts, I didn't realise you made an identical 
post out to U.K.Voices.....I see, well in that case you and I 
don't have much more to say to each other, I guess. To be quite 
honest, an Italian guy, I could'nt care less if you think I'm 
U.K.Voices, who am I stop you. I'm just sorry you put all that 
effort into writing those posts.

Hope he just made a mistake, and typed the wrong name...
it's obvious that you and 'Voices' are NOT one & the same.

Hi Everyman,.....yeah, that one sure got me scratching my head. 
There's not much to say is there, really. Except of course, that 
I hope sir...that you have a very good weekend! By the way, I 
liked the post about the reindeer, a nice touch!

Thank you for directing the questions to me.. I appreciate ur 
gesture.. About being enlightened with what I have to say in 
response to ur question, I doubt that will happen, but here are 
my responses any way:

Question 1:
In a free society such as the United 
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe, without 
repercussions from said goverments or society in general?
(by  "repercussions", we are refering to 
imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or even death.)
Answer:
In the above countries, human rights is not a banner ad that is 
used for propoganda. It is a belief that is actually followed by 
the leaders and civilians of the said countries. Therefore, 
since the freedom
of religion is a part of any human being, the matter is 
considered to be sacred. 
In most of other countries of the world, it is non-existant, and 
if at best it is, then it is tolerated to a minimal extent, as 
long at it is in conformity with its own policies.. ie it is 
virtually non-existant in most countries..

Question 2:
2.In societies that control freedom of said choices; what is 
the purpose of that control over society?
Answer:
The oppression of its people, to blindly follow the religions 
laid out before them, to ensure that the over all tide in the 
country they are in control of, would automatically justify any 
decisions taken by the higher authorities, without question, 
since such decisions have been taken in the name of the dominant 
religion of that country. They give no regard to the 
individual's opinion nor to his freedom of choice, and view him 
merely as a means to an end.. So why should his freedom of 
choice not be oppressed as well..??

Question 3:
Regarding the war on terror; how do you feel about the 
relationsip between the current affairs of now, and Isaac and 
Ishmael of old. Or does it relate?
Answer:
I understand the statement you are trying to make.. but when one 
speaks about or in the name of religion, one has to be careful. 
Therefore, please give me sometime to prepare my answer in the 
manner that will do justice to the question in hand.. But yes, I 
do believe they relate..

And thank you for these intelligent questions..

Peace..

I have a question to all..

1. What makes the matter of having material and concrete 
evidence against Bin Laden, of such high importance to the 
entire Muslim nation, religiously speaking?

Peace..

The problems Americans are facing (and any other country that 
believes in real freedom for all) is belief in religion as a 
basis for law.

Everyone knows that they should try and be good on a basic 
level. Seems to me that we all have known that since before the 
time of Sodom & Gomorrah. So lets go go beyond that. (if you 
can; if not don't bother responding)

Governments have evolved to the point where, like in the USA, 
and many other countries, Church and State should be seperated. 

As long as there are countries in the world that believe that 
religion should have basic control in government, problems are 
going to occur.(see:Iran, Afghanistan,etc....)

When children are raised from the time they are born to hate,and 
want to kill others people simply because the believe in a 
different religion,or have a different color skin, problems are 
going to occur.

Problems of property and land can always be solved if people are 
only worried about a place to live and work and are willing to 
be reasonable.

I pesonally will not ever visit Israel. I have already been to 
Saudi Arabia courtesy of the US Navy. I am a Christian. I 
believe in God, Allah, or whatever you want to call the big man 
upstairs. I do not believe that I have to be in Bethlehem, or 
leaning against the Wailing Wall, or visiting Mecca or 
Jerusalem, to be closer to my God. I certainly will not fight 
over it. That is simply stupid.

If you must fight over dumb crap like the color of you skin or 
your religion please go join osama-bin-dumbass in a cave. You 
belong with the idiot millionaire who lives in a cave waiting to 
die.   

You have laid out in simple terms a large problem. I agree
with you, and have also stated my thoughts on the subject of
state sponsored religion used to incite whole countrys and
world regions. Religion on a personnel level is a great thing,
but used to manipulate for political gains, it is completely
destructive.
 UK Citizen: The cat loves my daughter, the Lab, who is getting
older and not as bright as the cat likes me, maybe that should
tell me something?

The postings here are too long and unneccessarily complicate 
what is very simple:  Mullah Omar is a pussy.  "Fight to the 
death." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.   For at least 
ouir own good and, I think the good of humanity, the US should 
summarily execute Omar.

you posted:

"I have a question to all..

1. What makes the matter of having material and concrete 
evidence against Bin Laden, of such high importance to the 
entire Muslim nation, religiously speaking?

Peace.."


Your question shoold be:

How far can we go in thinking the rest of the world are suffering from massive brain 
damage...

It is the ulimate test for the Muslim Nation of their views against the ethics of -for instance- 
UN and the opinions of the western world as a whole.



ps The Muslim Nation will not stand, as it places itself outside national -and international 
law.

Just as it is intolerant to minorities, other religions, women, homosexuals and can and will 
not simply disaprove of the crimes the fiercest of its' citizens are and have been 
commiting and will commit.

The word "peace" seems to us perverse at least in this context....



Radio Europe, from Europe...
 

Have a great week-end...  

Love, Radio Europe, 11.33 GMT...





p.s.

To: Smiley  
Subject: Where is God? 
Date: Thu Dec 6 14:03:33 2001 
Message:

From our sources: "he is not in Iraq...." , but if you want to know for sure, ask his son, he's 
posting here...

Ashraf, why is it the Muslim world is so dead set upon 
having 'concrete evidence' for bin Laden, yet will condone 
stoning, beating, and imprisoning women.  Here is what he's done 
in Afghanistan.  Would you want your mother or sister treated 
this way?

Taliban restrictions and mistreatment of women include the: 

1- Complete ban on women's work outside the home, which also 
applies to female teachers, engineers and most professionals. 
Only a few female doctors and nurses are allowed to work in some 
hospitals in Kabul. 

2- Complete ban on women's activity outside the home unless 
accompanied by a mahram (close male relative such as a father, 
brother or husband). 

3- Ban on women dealing with male shopkeepers. 

4- Ban on women being treated by male doctors. 

5- Ban on women studying at schools, universities or any other 
educational institution. (Taliban have converted girls' schools 
into religious seminaries.) 

6- Requirement that women wear a long veil (Burqa), which covers 
them from head to toe. 

7- Whipping, beating and verbal abuse of women not clothed in 
accordance with Taliban rules, or of women unaccompanied by a 
mahram. 

8- Whipping of women in public for having non-covered ankles. 

9- Public stoning of women accused of having sex outside 
marriage. (A number of lovers are stoned to death under this 
rule). 

10- Ban on the use of cosmetics. (Many women with painted nails 
have had fingers cut off). 

11- Ban on women talking or shaking hands with non-mahram males. 

12- Ban on women laughing loudly. (No stranger should hear a 
woman's voice). 

13- Ban on women wearing high heel shoes, which would produce 
sound while walking. (A man must not hear a woman's footsteps.) 

14- Ban on women riding in a taxi without a mahram. 

15- Ban on women's presence in radio, television or public 
gatherings of any kind. 

16- Ban on women playing sports or entering a sport center or 
club. 

17- Ban on women riding bicycles or motorcycles, even with their 
mahrams. 

18- Ban on women's wearing brightly colored clothes. In Taliban 
terms, these are "sexually attracting colors." 

19- Ban on women gathering for festive occasions such as the 
Eids, or for any recreational purpose. 

20- Ban on women washing clothes next to rivers or in a public 
place. 

21- Modification of all place names including the word "women." 
For example, "women's garden" has been renamed "spring garden". 

22- Ban on women appearing on the balconies of their apartments 
or houses. 

23- Compulsory painting of all windows, so women can not be seen 
from outside their homes. 

24- Ban on male tailors taking women's measurements or sewing 
women's clothes. 

25- Ban on female public baths. 

26- Ban on males and females traveling on the same bus. Public 
buses have now been designated "males only" (or "females only"). 

27- Ban on flared (wide) pant-legs, even under a burqa. 

28- Ban on the photographing or filming of women. 

29- Ban on women's pictures printed in newspapers and books, or 
hung on the walls of houses and shops. 


Apart from the above restrictions on women, the Taliban has: 

- Banned listening to music, not only for women but men as well. 

- Banned the watching of movies, television and videos, for 
everyone. 

- Banned celebrating the traditional new year (Nowroz) on March 
21. The Taliban has proclaimed the holiday un-Islamic. 

- Disavowed Labor Day (May 1st), because it is deemed 
a "communist" holiday. 

- Ordered that all people with non-Islamic names change them to 
Islamic ones. 

- Forced haircuts upon Afghan youth. 

- Ordered that men wear Islamic clothes and a cap. 

- Ordered that men not shave or trim their beards, which should 
grow long enough to protrude from a fist clasped at the point of 
the chin. 

- Ordered that all people attend prayers in mosques five times 
daily. 

- Banned the keeping of pigeons and playing with the birds, 
describing it as un-Islamic. The violators will be imprisoned 
and the birds shall be killed. The kite flying has also been 
stopped. 

- Ordered all onlookers, while encouraging the sportsmen, to 
chant Allah-o-Akbar (God is great) and refrain from clapping. 

- Ban on certain games including kite flying which is "un-
Islamic" according to Taliban. 

- Anyone who carries objectionable literature will be executed. 

- Anyone who converts from Islam to any other religion will be 
executed. 

- All boy students must wear turbans. They say "No turban, no 
education". 

- Non-Muslim minorities must distinct badge or stitch a yellow 
cloth onto their dress to be differentiated from the majority 
Muslim population. Just like what did Nazis with Jews. 

And so on... 

we are "collecting" and "filing".
again;we thank you.

12/08/2001 : "NATO Head Says Defense Clause May Cover 
Iraq -Paper" 

NATO Secretary-General Lord Robertson believes NATO's 
mutual defense clause, invoked after the September 11 
attacks on the United States, will not be lifted immediately 
and could be used to cover action elsewhere, such as in 
Iraq, German newspaper Die Welt said on Friday.
``Should evidence be put forward that Iraq is involved, Article 
V could take hold,'' Robertson was quoted by the newspaper 
as saying.
Robertson told Die Welt, in a release ahead of its 
publication on Saturday, that Article V of the Washington 
Treaty would continue to be effective ``for some time.''
The clause in the North Atlantic Treaty, never before invoked 
in its 52-year history, declares an attack on one to be an 
attack on all.
Robertson also said a possible expansion of the U.S. war 
on terrorism could lead NATO to call on all 19 NATO 
members.
A number of U.S. lawmakers have urged President Bush to 
make Iraq the next military target after Afghanistan. But most 
Middle East nations and others such as France and 
Germany have cautioned against expanding the conflict.
The NATO secretary general said Article V could not be 
canceled by one or two nations.
``The duty to support one another was invoked 
unanimously. It can only be revoked unanimously,'' 
Robertson said.
He denied that NATO was playing a subordinate role after 
the September 11 attacks, saying invoking the mutual 
defense clause had had ``an electrifying political effect.''
Robertson denied too that closer cooperation between 
NATO and Russia would change or weaken the alliance. He 
insisted that cooperation did not mean Russia would have 
the power to veto NATO decisions.
He said Russia was not seeking or being granted a form of 
entry to NATO ``through the back door.'' 

Source:BERLIN (Reuters) 

=========================

Donkey shoe as Taliban stamp
After the capture of Mazar city by Taliban, they appoint an 
illiterate person by the name of Mulla Shah Mohammad in charge 
of Dehdadi municipality. Mullah Shah Mohammad asked the clerk of 
the municipality to order a stamp to seal the day to day paper 
work of the municipality. The clerk immediately asked the local 
stamp engraver to make a stamp for the municipality. When Mulla 
Shah Mohammad finally saw the stamp, he got very angry and 
said  look at this large municipality and look at that small 
stamp, go and make a big stamp . The clerk went back to the 
stamp engraver and said to him that the mayor is asking for a 
big stamp. The stamp maker gathers that he is dealing with a 
complete moron so he made the stamp from a donkey shoe upon 
which he scribed:  

In a city where asses are in-charge  
Shah Mohammed will be, of course, the city mayor   

When Mulla Shah Mohammad saw the new stamp smiled and 
said,  look, this is a good stamp . A few days later when he 
noticed the inscription, he went after the stamp maker, however 
by then, the stamp maker had fled from the town, yet the 
official documents with the new seal had reached the governor s 
office!  

I'm here, circling, reading, (mostly) every word.  When the 
topic religion, enters the conversation I mostly abstain from 
comment.  Like Merlyn I see things from perspective and 
understanding differring from most.  Heed Merlyn's words, these 
monsters are far from done.  Unlike Israel where attacks are 
symbolic (as horrendous as they are), and mostly limited, for 
fear of substantial retaliation, similiar, but more widescale 
attacks are planned here.  Unlike Israel who easily targets the 
perpetrators, who do we target?  Do you answer Saddam?  If so, 
then, he has nothing to loose, does he?  Allied forces will 
march through Bagdad - terrorists attack or not.

John
E pluribus unum

Bye, Spy, I think you were one of the most interesting posters 
on this board. I guess something must have happened to it, 
because a lot of people don't show up any more,lately.
UK Citizen, I always believe an English gentleman when he gives 
his word... and you gave it more than once; besides I don't 
think you would feel the need to e-mail anybody personally, just 
like you once said you would'nt give your e-mail address to this 
board. It would only water down the contents of what is written 
here. So I don't believe you are the real UK Citizen. After all -
 this is a very virtual world?
Justice USA, I do like you very much (anyone who dresses up for 
his children on Halloween is a great person) and you come across 
like a very "real" human being . 
I'm splitting myself, for the reasons given above, which I won't 
go in to any deeper, just so I will not hurt anybody's feelings.
Ciao, Marijke     

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fine defensive loads are available today for shotguns, even 
large slugs that mushroom like hollow point bullets (but, 
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though.
               Rules for war? LOL!!!

I prefer my Winchester Model 1300 Defender 12 Ga. Its got all
the features of the Ithaca but the magazine tube extends to end
flush with the barrel and holds 7 in the tube and one chambered
makes 8. The Ithaca only holds 6. With the maglite mounted under
the mag tube its perfect in the middle of the night.
 With a shotgun your also being a good neighbor! A bullet can
travel thru walls and kill the innocent. Buckshot wont.

1. What makes the matter of having material and concrete 
evidence against Bin Laden, of such high importance to the 
entire Muslim nation, religiously speaking?

Good question...I am guessing it has something to do with 
a quote from the Koran. I think perhaps they want enough 
proof so that they can, in turn, prosecute him for perverting 
the Muslim faith. However, I think there is more than enough 
proof of Bin Laden's guilt as a terrorist and hater of mankind 
to prosecute him. I still don't understand what more the 
Muslim world needs. He's the mob boss. All of his people 
are practiced and determined liars, so very few, if any, would 
offer testimony against him. Who knows, maybe eventually 
the pile of evidence will be heavy enough even for the 
stubborn.

At least the majority of the visible work is done. I am looking 
forward to seeing an independent Afghanistan and the 
possibility of disarming the populace. I just don't see how 
anarchy wouldn't be the norm if the people could outgun the 
authorities. "Hmmm let's see, should I feed my family today 
- or buy a Kalashnikov?" I just don't get it. 

Dude, I think Saudi Arabia should take responsibility for 
Saddam, since he's their neighbor. They have the right to 
defend their fellow Muslims from this maniac don't they? If 
they did it, there would be no need for America to do it. That 
would be much much better for public relations over there I 
think. 

God willing, there will be peace soon...

Just how much a coward, hypocrite and a religious disgrace can 
one wimp be?
Osama you suck incredibly. So much I might just recommend you 
spend the rest of your life, if that is an option, suck starting 
the US Military Harley Davidson s!
Telling poor people that cannot afford to feed their families, 
to become martyrs so that your, now nonexistent government, will 
take care of them while you cower in a cave pissing your hate 
dogma, is the lowest thing ever seen in recorded history! You 
have brought the word Muslim to a new low! Your very existence 
brings the human race to a new low! Religion has no part of your 
sick and perverted sense of reality. How any Muslim can stand 
the sight of you is beyond anyone's ability to puke! Your Omar 
sidekick is right down there with you! Just as much a wimp!

Sir, a question. What is your take on the general attitude of
the British people towards the war on terrorism?
 Maybe Im more gung ho than most, but here in America I sense
a letting down of the guard somewhat. Like a tired boxer
whose hands drop lower and lower in the late rounds, then BOOM,
he gets knocked out. But the first round isnt even over in this
fight yet. 
 I dont sense this from our goverment, but average Americans I
see on a daily basis. Its as if some think what happened was a
fluke. I just think as people we must keep this new found 
alertness, or focas when going about our daily lives. Sept. 11
was no fluke, it will happen again. Our goverment has taken
many steps to help with security, but this will not stop all
determined terrorists. How many times do police anywhere prevent
a murder? Not very many. Dont blindly expect protection. 
 With all the positive happenings in Afghanistan, lets not forget
what we have taken on, Osama and freinds are a drop in a big
bucket. These terrorists are spread all over the world, including
right here in the U.S.A., right now, just waiting. Dont stop
living your life, but we now have a threat to our safety that
was of no concern before. The greatest self-defence mechanism
is to be aware your surroundings.
 I for one cannot put the Sept. 11 images out of mind, nor do I
want too. My 12 year old came home from school that day and I
asked her If she had heard about the attack, and she said "Ya,
everybody was talking about it, we didnt see what the big deal
was about". She now has 20/20 vision, beleive me!
 Maybe its just a holiday season letdown. I hope so.

InRef.To:

From: Ashraf 
To: All.. & E.S.D. 
Subject: ... 
Date: Fri Dec 7 19:06:33 2001 
Message:

I have a question to all..

1. What makes the matter of having material and concrete 
evidence against Bin Laden, of such high importance to the 
entire Muslim nation, religiously speaking?

Peace..

=============================
1.pt.(a)...the matter of having material and concrete 
evidence against Bin Laden.



FBI Websites Document Evidence Against Bin Laden 

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has made public two 
websites where information about Usama bin Laden is 
available. Information about bin Laden's involvement in the 
1998 bombing of the U.S. embassies in Tanzania and 
Kenya can be found at 
http://www.fbi.gov/majcases/eastafrica/summary.htm. 

The U.S. indictment against bin Laden can be found at 
http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/nyfo/pressrels/1998/11041998.
htm 

The following is text of the fact sheet: 


FACT SHEET: THE CHARGES AGAINST INTERNATIONAL 
TERRORIST USAMA BIN LADEN

The Taliban Movement of Afghanistan, led by Mullah 
Mohammad Omar, continues to provide safe haven to the 
indicted terrorist Usama bin Laden. Spokesmen for the 
Taliban and its mass media continue the disinformation 
campaign that no one has provided the Taliban with proof of 
bin Laden's alleged crimes. 

According to the rule of law as practiced by the international 
community of nations, a judge and jury determine proof of 
guilt based on evidence submitted during a trial. 

Extensive evidence exists against Usama bin Laden and 
his collaborators. This evidence is public information 
available to all, including the Taliban, at two internet web 
sites, which are listed below. 

Usama bin Laden, leader of the terrorist organization 
Al-Qaida, is charged in connection with the August 7, 1998, 
bombings of the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar 
es Salaam, Tanzania. These attacks resulted in the deaths 
of more than 200 people, including 12 American citizens, 
and injuries to more than 4,000 individuals, among whom 
were Muslims. A summary of the facts of this terrorist act 
can be found on the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation's 
internet web site: 
http://www.fbi.gov/majcases/eastafrica/proct8.htm 

As a result of extensive criminal investigation, and working 
closely with Kenya, Tanzania, and other nations, the U.S. 
Government has indicted or filed criminal complaints 
against bin Laden and 16 of his associates for their 
involvement in the two bombings and other terrorist crimes. 
The U.S. indictment detailing the charges against bin Laden 
can be found on the internet web site of the U.S. Federal 
Bureau of Investigation: 
http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/nyfo/pressrels/1998/11041998.
htm 

USAMA BIN LADEN: AN INDICTED CRIMINAL, NOT A HERO

Usama bin Laden has repeatedly declared war on the U.S. 
and endorsed the murder of U.S. citizens. For this reason, 
some of his admirers consider bin Laden a hero. 

Usama bin Laden is not a hero. 

According to international standards of law and morality, 
anyone who incites violence against an entire people, 
especially for ideological reasons, is a criminal. 

August 1996 Declaration of War 

On or about August 23, 1996, Usama bin Laden signed and 
issued a Declaration of jihad (holy war) from Afghanistan 
entitled, "Message from Usama bin Laden to his Muslim 
Brothers in the Whole World and Especially in the Arabian 
Peninsula: Declaration of Jihad Against the Americans 
Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Mosques; Expel the 
Heretics from the Arabian Peninsula." 

February 1998 Fatwa Against American Citizens 

In February 1998, Usama bin Laden and his close 
associate, Ayman al Zawahiri, endorsed a fatwa under the 
banner of the "International Islamic Front for Jihad on the 
Jews and Crusaders." This fatwa, published in the 
newspaper, Al-Quds Al-Arabi, on February 23, 1998, stated 
that Muslims should kill Americans - including civilians - 
anywhere in the world where they can be found. 

May 1998 Fatwa 

On or about May 7, 1998, bin Laden associate Mohammed 
Atef sent Khaled al Fawwaz a letter discussing the 
endorsement by bin Laden of a fatwa issued by the "Ulema 
Union of Afghanistan" which termed the U.S. army the 
"enemies of Islam" and declared jihad against the U.S. and 
its followers. The fatwa was subsequently published in 
Al-Quds Al-Arabi. 

Bin Laden Endorses the Nuclear Bomb of Islam 

On or about May 29, 1998, bin Laden issued a statement 
entitled "The Nuclear Bomb of Islam," under the banner of 
the "International Islamic Front for Fighting the Jews and 
Crusaders," in which he stated that "it is the duty of Muslims 
to prepare as much force as possible to terrorize the 
enemies of God." (end text) 




Summary
http://www.fbi.gov/majcases/eastafrica/summary.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------

On August 7, 1998, at approximately 10:40 a.m., a bomb 
was detonated near the United States Embassy in Nairobi, 
Kenya. It killed 212 people, twelve of which were Americans 
and 31 of which were Foreign Service Nationals. Another 
4,650 people were wounded. Both Embassies sustained 
massive structural damage as a result of the blasts.


Nairobi, Kenya 



Almost simultaneously, a bomb exploded near the United 
States Embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. It killed eleven 
people, including seven Foreign Service Nationals from the 
Embassy, and wounded 72 others.


Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania 



The FBI immediately went to East Africa in order to assist in 
the search, rescue, and investigative efforts. The exhaustive 
investigation of the crime scenes, in cooperation with the 
host countries, included over 1,000 interviews. This 
investigation was the largest overseas deployment of 
personnel in FBI history. The FBI has named these 
investigations Kenbom and Tanbom, respectively, based 
upon the location of these incidents.

On May 29, 2001, after over 12 days of deliberations, a 
Manhattan federal court jury returned a guilty verdict on all 
302 counts against four of the individuals involved in the 
bombings. Wadih El-Hage, Mohamed Sadeek Odeh, 
Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-'Owali, and Khalfan Khamis 
Mohamed were convicted of conspiring with Usama Bin 
Laden and 17 other co-defendants to kill American 
nationals outside of the United States.

Odeh and Al-'Owhali were also specifically found guilty of 
participating in the August 1998 bombings of the United 
States Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, and Khalfan Khamis 
Mohamed the United States Embassy in Dar es Salaam, 
Tanzania, respectively. El-Hage was also found guilty of 
perjury.

Over four months later, on October 18, 2001, the four 
individuals were sentenced to life in federal prison without 
the possibility of release.

The investigation will continue as 13 of the 22 defendants in 
this matter, including Usama Bin Laden, remain as 
fugitives. Additionally, there is a $5 million reward for 
information leading to the apprehension and prosecution of 
each of these fugitives. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------





For Immediate Release
http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/nyfo/pressrels/1998/11041998.
htm


Date: November 4, 1998  
Contact: Joseph Valiquette (212) 384-2715
James Margolin (212) 384-2720

FBI - NEW YORK OFFICE - PRESS RELEASE




          LEWIS D. SCHILIRO, Assistant Director in Charge of 
the New York FBI Office and MARY JO WHITE, the United 
States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, 
announced that USAMA BIN LADEN and MUHAMMAD ATEF, 
a/k/a "Abu Hats," were indicted today in Manhattan federal 
court for the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States 
embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, 
Tanzania, and for conspiring to kill American nationals 
outside of the United States.

          The United States Department of State also 
announced today rewards of up to $5 million each for 
information leading to the arrest or conviction of BIN LADEN 
and ATEF.

          The first count of the Indictment charges that BIN 
LADEN and ATEF, along with co-defendants WADIS EL 
HAGE, FAZUL ABDULLAH MOHAMMED, MOHAMED 
SADEEK ODEH, and MOHAMED RASHED DAOUD 
AL-'OWHALI, acted together with other members of "al 
Qaeda," a worldwide Terrorist organization led by BIN 
LADEN, in a conspiracy to murder United States nationals. 
The objectives of this international terrorist conspiracy 
allegedly included: killing members of the American military 
stationed in Saudi Arabia and Somalia; killing United States 
nationals employed at the United States Embassies in 
Nairobi, -Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania; and 
concealing the activities of the co-conspirators by, among 
other things, establishing front companies, providing false 
identity and travel documents, engaging in coded 
correspondence and providing false information to the 
authorities in various countries.

          BIN LADEN's organization al Qaeda allegedly 
functioned both on its own and through some of the terrorist 
organizations that operated under its umbrella, including the 
Al Jihad group based in Egypt, the Islamic Group (also 
known as "el Gamaa Islamia" or simply "Gamaa't"), led at 
one time by Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, and a number of 
jihad groups in other countries, including the Sudan, Egypt, 
Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Somalia. Al Qaeda also allegedly 
maintained cells and personnel in a number of countries to 
facilitate its activities, including in Kenya, Tanzania, the 
United Kingdom and the United States.

          According to the Indictment, BIN LADEN and al Qaeda 
forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in the Sudan 
and with representatives of the government of Iran, and its 
associated terrorist group Hezballah, with the goal of 
working together against their perceived common enemies 
in the West, particularly the United States.

          In order to further this international conspiracy to 
murder United States nationals, BIN LADEN and other 
co-conspirators are alleged to have committed the following 
acts: (1) providing training- camps for use by al Qaeda and 
its affiliates; (2) recruiting United States citizens including 
the defendant EL HAGE to help facilitate the goals of al 
Qaeda; (3) purchasing weapons and explosives; and (4) 
establishing headquarters and businesses in the Sudan.

          The Indictment also alleges that fatwahs were issued 
by BIN LADEN and a committee of al Qaeda members 
urging other members and associates of al Qaeda to kill 
Americans. According to the Indictment, several of these 
fatwahs called for attacks on American troops stationed in 
Saudi Arabia and Somalia. The Indictment also alleges that 
American troops in Somalia were indeed attacked and killed 
by persons who received training from al Qaeda members 
or those trained by al Qaeda. The Indictment specifically 
charges that the August 7' 1998, bombings of the United 
States embassies in Kenya and Tanzania as actions taken 
in furtherance of this conspiracy to kill American nationals.

          BIN LADEN and ATEF, along with ABDULLAH 
MOHAMMED, ODEH, and AL-'OWHALI, are also charged 
with bombing the two embassies and causing the deaths of 
more than 200 persons and injuring more than 4,500 
others. Those five defendants are also charged with 
murdering all of the civilians killed in the embassy 
bombings. The Indictment names all of the victims of the 
bombings and each victim is charged as a separate count 
of murder for a total of 224 counts of murder against BIN 
LADEN, ATEF, ABDULLAH MOHAMMED, ODEH, and AL 
'OWHALI.

          WHITE and Mr. SCHILIRO said the investigation of this 
case is being conducted by the Joint Terrorist Task Force 
composed of the FBI, the New York City Police Department, 
the United States Department of State, the United States 
Secret Service, the United States Immigration and 
Naturalization Service, the Federal Aviation Administration, 
the United States Marshals Service, the Bureau of Alcohol, 
Tobacco, and Firearms, the New York State Police and the 
Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

          Ms. WHITE and Mr. SCHILIRO praised the 
Governments of Kenya, Tanzania and the Comoros Islands 
for their cooperation in this investigation and praised all the 
investigative efforts and cooperation of the agencies 
involved in the case. They also said the investigation is 
continuing.

          United States Attorney General Janet Reno stated: 
"This is an important step forward in our fight against 
terrorism. It sends a message that no terrorist can flout our 
laws and murder innocent civilians."

         Ms. WHITE stated: "Usama Bin Laden and his military 
commander Muhammad Atef are charged with the most 
heinous acts of violence ever committed against American 
diplomatic posts. These acts caused the deaths of 
hundreds of citizens of Kenya, Tanzania and the United 
States. All those responsible for these brutal and cowardly 
acts, from the leaders and organizers to all of those who 
had any role in these crimes in East Africa, will be brought to 
justice."

         Mr. SCHILIRO stated: "This investigation has been 
given the highest priority. Our investigative strategy is clear: 
We will identify, locate and prosecute all those responsible 
right up the line, from those who constructed and delivered 
the bombs to those who paid for them and ordered it done. 
This has been an investigation which has involved the 
largest deployment of FBI agents abroad, including 
members of the Joint Terrorist Task Force. Working closely 
with the law enforcement authorities in Kenya and Tanzania, 
our investigators have made significant progress, yet much 
remains to be done."

         BIN LADEN and ATEF, both of whom are fugitives, face 
a maximum sentence of life imprisonment without the 
possibility of parole, or death.

         Assistant United States Attorneys PATRICK J. 
FITZGERALD, KENNETH M. KARAS and MICHAEL J. 
GARCIA are in charge of the prosecution. The charges 
contained in the Indictment are merely accusations, and the 
defendants are presumed innocent unless and until proven 
guilty.

------------------------------------------------------------------------



==================================
1pt.(b)...such high importance to the 
entire Muslim nation, religiously speaking?

control.

Rajavi: Mullahs use the Palestinian issue to cover up 
missile attack on Iraqi cities and Mojahedin camps 

Commenting on the "Conference on Palestinian Intifada" in 
Tehran and the rhetoric by the clerical regime's leaders in 
the conference, Mr. Massoud Rajavi, President of the 
National Council of Resistance of Iran, said: "As far as the 
mullahs' regime is concerned, the call to hold this 
conference in Tehran is nothing but a maneuver and 
transparent posturing designed to cover up the firing of 77 
surface-to-surface missiles on Iraqi cities and Mojahedin 
camps." 

Mr. Rajavi added: "The mullahs' demagoguery is common 
knowledge. With the slogan of liberating Qods (Jerusalem) 
via Karbala, they only sought to export crisis to preserve their 
rule. Now, once again, the missiles are being launched at 
the people of Iraq and the Iranian Resistance. Hollow 
rhetoric and empty words are what Palestinians are getting 
out of this." 

The NCR President emphasized: "The absence of Mr. Arafat 
and the Palestine Liberation Organization in the mullahs' 
'show' is a clear testament to the fact that the mullahs are 
playing with the Palestinian problem for their own interests. 
Those to whom this issue relates are fully aware of the 
mullahs' tactics." 

Secretariat of the National Council of Resistance of Iran
April 25, 2001 


======================

U.S.A

                          L.i.V.e.S.


                         AFGaHaNiSTaN 

                           R.I.P
                        MoTHeRFuCKeRZZ  
                         

When i was in school and found out that someone had flown planes 
into the world trade center i was amazed and scared. To all 
those who want to condemn what america is doing, ask yourself if 
it had been your wife/husband or child or friend who died in 
that building, what would you want done. After one person is 
murdered and the police find out who has committed this crime, 
they chase and hunt down the person who has committed this 
crime. Yet after around 4,000 people were horrificly taken from 
this world you people think it is right to do nothing, to take 
the "noble way out". As so many have said "an eye for an eye 
leaves the world blind", but it is not like america is stealing 
some planes and crashing them into afghanistan, if someone came 
into your house and hurt you, would you really say "try to go 
and get the person responsible, but if you don't it's ok"? 
I know that I am only a teenager and still have an enormous 
amount to learn but I am tired of watching the news and seeing 
all these people who have a problem with what the gov. is doing, 
in my opinion you should not say how much the government is 
doing wrong if you can not say what they should be doing. In 
other words, sure everyone can say oh, thats bad...but if you 
were the person who was in charge of deciding what should be 
done, WHAT WOULD YOU DO? I can honestly say I am really glad I 
do not have to make that decision. Don't get me wrong I am 
against war in general, but I can not say I am against what 
America is doing, because I can think of no better way to handle 
a situation in which one man thinks he has the right to decide 
who lives or dies.
To Bin Laden, I don't care that you are Muslim and that I am 
not. I have friends who are Muslim and in my opinion the Muslim 
faith is not totally opposite of the Christian faith, so you 
thinking that allah would want to kill thousand of innocent 
people, because Americans are not what you think we should be, 
is just completely insane and there is no justification to it. 
I'm sorry, but allah probably doesn't like it either. I don't 
understand why you can have so much hatred against a group of 
people you do not even know just because they live in America? I 
am sorry if the American government has done something bad to 
the Muslim population (although I have no clue what that would 
be), but what did those 4 thousand people you slaughtered have 
to do with that?, what did those young firemen and police men 
and bystanders have to due with something they really had no say 
in? why destroy so many lives for something they could do 
nothing about? who gave you the right? who made you god? America 
is a great place to live and I am proud to be an American and 
when my time comes to die, I will be proud to die an American 
and a Christian, and all my friends will be proud that they are 
Muslim or what ever they are, and I will be happy and support 
them, because that is what America is about, supporting 
different people from different religions, ethics, etc. and 
trying to live in a free and peaceful place and make a happy 
life for themselves (at least that is what America is to me). I 
know that there are people just like you in America, those who 
think only white people should be able to live, those who think 
only christians should live, but you know what, I am a white 
Christian and all I want is to live a happy life with my friends 
and family and I think the diversity makes living even better, 
so you and all the people who want to destroy that I say try if 
you must, but it will never work, because there will always be 
another American who believes what I do. 

To everyone, I am deeply sorry to all those innocent people's 
families and friends who have lost their loved ones, but at 
least they do not have to live in our world full of hate anymore 
and maybe the place they are in is their perfect utopian (I 
truely hope that their souls have found the peace and comfort, 
that so many try to take from our world). I hope you to can find 
peace and know that your loved one is watching you from above 
and when you smile they will see you and smile back, and they 
will be there when you are sad supporting you like they did when 
they were here with you, and when you are mad they will be there 
reasoning with you or being mad with you, etc. I know it is hard 
to loss someone, who does not deserve to die, although I did not 
know anyone in the world trade center or the pentagon, about 6 
years ago my young cousin was murdered and I did not understand 
why a child should have to die in such a horrible way, but now I 
find comfort in the fact that she is whatching me and the rest 
of my family, and your loved ones are too. I sincerely hope you 
and your family and friends are able to find even the smallest 
shred of comfort in what i have just said. I hope that, not only 
for the innocent people who are dying here, but also those in 
Afghanistan and the rest of the world.

I am not racist or prejudist, but i can truely say i dislike 
those who justify their own violance and hatred with their 
religion. i hope god has mercy on your souls or allah has mercy 
on your souls, because I know that no god wants that kind of 
pain and suffering to be caused on anyone. 
One of my teachers told me, that most people hate in others what 
they hate in themselves, and I am not sure I believe that, but 
in the case of those who kill and justify it with their faith, 
maybe it is true. You can explain to the babies of those who 
died for your crime, you can tell them why their mommies and 
daddies were horrible people and then you explain to them why 
they have to suffer!

You are so very right...Thank You for your post

When i was in school and found out that someone had flown planes 
into the world trade center i was amazed and scared. To all 
those who want to condemn what america is doing, ask yourself if 
it had been your wife/husband or child or friend who died in 
that building, what would you want done. After one person is 
murdered and the police find out who has committed this crime, 
they chase and hunt down the person who has committed this 
crime. Yet after around 4,000 people were horrificly taken from 
this world you people think it is right to do nothing, to take 
the "noble way out". As so many have said "an eye for an eye 
leaves the world blind", but it is not like america is stealing 
some planes and crashing them into afghanistan, if someone came 
into your house and hurt you, would you really say "try to go 
and get the person responsible, but if you don't it's ok"? 
I know that I am only a teenager and still have an enormous 
amount to learn but I am tired of watching the news and seeing 
all these people who have a problem with what the gov. is doing, 
in my opinion you should not say how much the government is 
doing wrong if you can not say what they should be doing. In 
other words, sure everyone can say oh, thats bad...but if you 
were the person who was in charge of deciding what should be 
done, WHAT WOULD YOU DO? I can honestly say I am really glad I 
do not have to make that decision. Don't get me wrong I am 
against war in general, but I can not say I am against what 
America is doing, because I can think of no better way to handle 
a situation in which one man thinks he has the right to decide 
who lives or dies.
To Bin Laden, I don't care that you are Muslim and that I am 
not. I have friends who are Muslim and in my opinion the Muslim 
faith is not totally opposite of the Christian faith, so you 
thinking that allah would want to kill thousand of innocent 
people, because Americans are not what you think we should be, 
is just completely insane and there is no justification to it. 
I'm sorry, but allah probably doesn't like it either. I don't 
understand why you can have so much hatred against a group of 
people you do not even know just because they live in America? I 
am sorry if the American government has done something bad to 
the Muslim population (although I have no clue what that would 
be), but what did those 4 thousand people you slaughtered have 
to do with that?, what did those young firemen and police men 
and bystanders have to due with something they really had no say 
in? why destroy so many lives for something they could do 
nothing about? who gave you the right? who made you god? America 
is a great place to live and I am proud to be an American and 
when my time comes to die, I will be proud to die an American 
and a Christian, and all my friends will be proud that they are 
Muslim or what ever they are, and I will be happy and support 
them, because that is what America is about, supporting 
different people from different religions, ethics, etc. and 
trying to live in a free and peaceful place and make a happy 
life for themselves (at least that is what America is to me). I 
know that there are people just like you in America, those who 
think only white people should be able to live, those who think 
only christians should live, but you know what, I am a white 
Christian and all I want is to live a happy life with my friends 
and family and I think the diversity makes living even better, 
so you and all the people who want to destroy that I say try if 
you must, but it will never work, because there will always be 
another American who believes what I do. 

To everyone, I am deeply sorry to all those innocent people's 
families and friends who have lost their loved ones, but at 
least they do not have to live in our world full of hate anymore 
and maybe the place they are in is their perfect utopian (I 
truely hope that their souls have found the peace and comfort, 
that so many try to take from our world). I hope you to can find 
peace and know that your loved one is watching you from above 
and when you smile they will see you and smile back, and they 
will be there when you are sad supporting you like they did when 
they were here with you, and when you are mad they will be there 
reasoning with you or being mad with you, etc. I know it is hard 
to loss someone, who does not deserve to die, although I did not 
know anyone in the world trade center or the pentagon, about 6 
years ago my young cousin was murdered and I did not understand 
why a child should have to die in such a horrible way, but now I 
find comfort in the fact that she is whatching me and the rest 
of my family, and your loved ones are too. I sincerely hope you 
and your family and friends are able to find even the smallest 
shred of comfort in what i have just said. I hope that, not only 
for the innocent people who are dying here, but also those in 
Afghanistan and the rest of the world.

I am not racist or prejudist, but i can truely say i dislike 
those who justify their own violance and hatred with their 
religion. i hope god has mercy on your souls or allah has mercy 
on your souls, because I know that no god wants that kind of 
pain and suffering to be caused on anyone. 
One of my teachers told me, that most people hate in others what 
they hate in themselves, and I am not sure I believe that, but 
in the case of those who kill and justify it with their faith, 
maybe it is true. You can explain to the babies of those who 
died for your crime, you can tell them why their mommies and 
daddies were horrible people and then you explain to them why 
they have to suffer! You can come to me explain to me why you 
hate me, you can tell all those like me why you hate us when you 
don't even know us! if you can do that without using your 
religion i will be very surprised!

When i was in school and found out that someone had flown planes 
into the world trade center i was amazed and scared. To all 
those who want to condemn what america is doing, ask yourself if 
it had been your wife/husband or child or friend who died in 
that building, what would you want done. After one person is 
murdered and the police find out who has committed this crime, 
they chase and hunt down the person who has committed this 
crime. Yet after around 4,000 people were horrificly taken from 
this world you people think it is right to do nothing, to take 
the "noble way out". As so many have said "an eye for an eye 
leaves the world blind", but it is not like america is stealing 
some planes and crashing them into afghanistan, if someone came 
into your house and hurt you, would you really say "try to go 
and get the person responsible, but if you don't it's ok"? 
I know that I am only a teenager and still have an enormous 
amount to learn but I am tired of watching the news and seeing 
all these people who have a problem with what the gov. is doing, 
in my opinion you should not say how much the government is 
doing wrong if you can not say what they should be doing. In 
other words, sure everyone can say oh, thats bad...but if you 
were the person who was in charge of deciding what should be 
done, WHAT WOULD YOU DO? I can honestly say I am really glad I 
do not have to make that decision. Don't get me wrong I am 
against war in general, but I can not say I am against what 
America is doing, because I can think of no better way to handle 
a situation in which one man thinks he has the right to decide 
who lives or dies.
To Bin Laden, I don't care that you are Muslim and that I am 
not. I have friends who are Muslim and in my opinion the Muslim 
faith is not totally opposite of the Christian faith, so you 
thinking that allah would want to kill thousand of innocent 
people, because Americans are not what you think we should be, 
is just completely insane and there is no justification to it. 
I'm sorry, but allah probably doesn't like it either. I don't 
understand why you can have so much hatred against a group of 
people you do not even know just because they live in America? I 
am sorry if the American government has done something bad to 
the Muslim population (although I have no clue what that would 
be), but what did those 4 thousand people you slaughtered have 
to do with that?, what did those young firemen and police men 
and bystanders have to due with something they really had no say 
in? why destroy so many lives for something they could do 
nothing about? who gave you the right? who made you god? America 
is a great place to live and I am proud to be an American and 
when my time comes to die, I will be proud to die an American 
and a Christian, and all my friends will be proud that they are 
Muslim or what ever they are, and I will be happy and support 
them, because that is what America is about, supporting 
different people from different religions, ethics, etc. and 
trying to live in a free and peaceful place and make a happy 
life for themselves (at least that is what America is to me). I 
know that there are people just like you in America, those who 
think only white people should be able to live, those who think 
only christians should live, but you know what, I am a white 
Christian and all I want is to live a happy life with my friends 
and family and I think the diversity makes living even better, 
so you and all the people who want to destroy that I say try if 
you must, but it will never work, because there will always be 
another American who believes what I do. 

To everyone, I am deeply sorry to all those innocent people's 
families and friends who have lost their loved ones, but at 
least they do not have to live in our world full of hate anymore 
and maybe the place they are in is their perfect utopian (I 
truely hope that their souls have found the peace and comfort, 
that so many try to take from our world). I hope you to can find 
peace and know that your loved one is watching you from above 
and when you smile they will see you and smile back, and they 
will be there when you are sad supporting you like they did when 
they were here with you, and when you are mad they will be there 
reasoning with you or being mad with you, etc. I know it is hard 
to loss someone, who does not deserve to die, although I did not 
know anyone in the world trade center or the pentagon, about 6 
years ago my young cousin was murdered and I did not understand 
why a child should have to die in such a horrible way, but now I 
find comfort in the fact that she is whatching me and the rest 
of my family, and your loved ones are too. I sincerely hope you 
and your family and friends are able to find even the smallest 
shred of comfort in what i have just said. I hope that, not only 
for the innocent people who are dying here, but also those in 
Afghanistan and the rest of the world.

I am not racist or prejudist, but i can truely say i dislike 
those who justify their own violance and hatred with their 
religion. i hope god has mercy on your souls or allah has mercy 
on your souls, because I know that no god wants that kind of 
pain and suffering to be caused on anyone. 
One of my teachers told me, that most people hate in others what 
they hate in themselves, and I am not sure I believe that, but 
in the case of those who kill and justify it with their faith, 
maybe it is true. You can explain to the babies of those who 
died for your crime, you can tell them why their mommies and 
daddies were horrible people and then you explain to them why 
they have to suffer! You can come to me explain to me why you 
hate me, you can tell all those like me why you hate us when you 
don't even know us! if you can do that without using your 
religion i will be very surprised!

sorry i did not mean to send that so many times but i least you 
can seem i am persistent about wanting to be heard by someone

Well said!

Sorry H/I to have to disappoint you, but this unfortunately is 
still the original U.K.Citizen. True enough, I did give my word 
and I meant it, however Allatti2d compiled a list of posts in 
the form of an E-mail of those wanting me at least to reconsider 
which I took into account, one or two of those saying that I 
should put my word aside just this once. I was truly grateful 
for the setiments expressed by each and every one of those 
posts,...it was gratifying. Among those posts was one from a 
poster named 'North Carolina Gal', which finally promted my 
return. I have left an E-mail for Spy with Allatti2d regarding 
an issue surrounding the post, that promted my return. The other 
E-mail that I've left Allatti2d, was simply to be relayed to 
Missin'. I thought it was possibly more appropriate to 'speak' 
to her in 'private'...so to speak. Both individuals may not wish 
to E-mail Allatti2d, and that's O.K! They were simply one-off's, 
which I did state in those E-mails. I DO certainly agree that 
commuicating 'off board' can indeed de-value the board itself in 
certain respects, which is why I stated that they were just one-
off's.

I, as you and others too I'm sure, have noticed, there is a 
change of 'character' on the A.G. board which does not suit 
everybody. Those whose posts, I personally look forward to 
reading are not posting to the board nearly as 
frequently...which is of course entirely their choice. Such is 
the nature of a free access board it is difficult, if not 
impossible to please everybody. Individuals have different 
agenda's and motivations and not all of those coincide well with 
those of others. Mine was to be an inclusive agenda, I guess 
which again may not suit everybody, something which I was at 
pains to try and establish, if indeed that was the case or not. 
One can easily rufle the feathers of others without meaning to. 
I'd hoped people with different opinions and motivations (so 
long as they were not obviously destructive and disruptive to 
the board as a whole) would all be able to contribute in their 
own different ways. All of those in my estimation are of equal 
VALUE because the events of Sept 11 effacted ALL of us in 
different ways, otherwise, we wouldn't have been writing to 
boards such as this one.

I'm really sorry to hear that you're wanting to leave the board, 
I personally would have hoped you would have posted your 
thoughts far more often, I for one, would have loved to have 
read more of them!

I can only theorise, but when I joined the board as U.K.Citizen 
I guess another indivual saw the abreviation U.K. and 
thought...hey!..another Brit!...let's see what going here. 
Unfortunately this individual wished to cause nothing but 
trouble. Playing amatuer detective, with the emphasis 
on 'amatuer' I summized that UK Voices and Right said Fred were 
probably one and the same. Probably an english, white male. 
However I guessed completely incorrectly, that Walter and UK 
Voices were one and the same, much I'm sure to the bewilderment 
of Walter, no doubt. I'm as sure as anyone can be in 
this 'virtual world' that Walter is indeed an American Citizen. 
The reason I came to this board, I state yet again, was to 
simply extend sympathies and solidarity with the American 
People, because their nation was the one that was attacked in 
such a cowardly manner on Sept 11.

Out of respect and courtesy to others, I have done, and shall 
continue to, seriously consider by position on this board. I 
frankly don't need the aggravation of being mistaken for someone 
else, it gets tiresome.

If you're still reading this board, get back to me with a reply 
should you wish to. Best wishes nevertheless.

U.K.Citizen

     

I for one am glad that you returned....I don't believe an 
explanation was needed.....Best Wished

Dear Friends,
Sorry to be away for so long, but we are very busy in our 
country/state as you know...
You will be thrilled to know that www.Afghansas.com has been 
recently updated and has a lot of new and very interesting, and 
useful information for your reading pleasure. Please visit us 
often to see all that is new and changing in our wonderful 
country/state!
 
May you be blessed a thousand blessings from above,
Mullah Enaud

Lots going on there I see. That must have been a scary
meeting, outdoors and all? A St. Abduli Girl beer would sure
quench my thirst right now! I think the Govenor is right, no
human could take all that jabbering from the backseat!
 Keep up the good work, statehood is so close, there is no
turning back now.

Your song is already #2 in Afghansas. All can even sing it
kareoke style! Good work.

Wow, It's great to know that America still has some 
passionate, intelligent teens out there! Your post was better 
thought out and better written than a lot of those from much 
older people. It can be hard to keep perservering with such 
uncertain times, but I know that I will continue to support our 
government and that as long as there are younger people 
like you who support this, that others will follow. We will find 
the terrorist generals and they will be punished for what they 
have done and continue to do. Thanks for posting such an 
easy to read item! Keep the faith!

Wow, I had no idea!  Thanks for bringing that to my attention.  
I'm honored.  (Wonder how long it'll take for the royalties to 
start rolling in?)(:^)



Mullah Enaud, the site is looking great.  We're behind you.  

American Teen, well said.

U.K., you know who your friends are...hang in there.

Spy, John, we miss you. 

India--Headline:  Suspect says al-Quaida planned more attacks

BOMBAY--Indian authorities said Thursday that a man in their 
custody claimed he was trained by Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida 
which had planned terrorist attacks in Britain, Australia and 
India similar to the Sept. 11 assault on the United States.

The suspect--identified as 28-year-old Mohammed Afroz--was 
arrested Oct. 2 at a Bombay hotel on suspicion of theft and 
ordered held for questioning.

As details about the suspect's alleged involvement in al-Qaida 
emerged, Australian authorities said Afroz had received flight 
training in their country, and a Bombay police officer said that 
an e-mail sent by Afroz to an address in Australia mentioned 
plans to hijack a plane and attack the British parliament.

Voices--would Britain be to blame if such an attack occured?  Is 
it because of British foreign policies that they are a target?  
You seem to think the U.S. "deserved" or "asked for" the attacks 
of 9/11--do you think Britain does, too?  What say you?  Seems 
that we weren't the only target.  What about Australia & India? 

Is the terrorist activity as humorous to you knowing these other 
targets? 

I apologize if I posted anything to offend you I for one may 
have mistakenly posted something less than complimentary in 
reply to something U.K. voices had posted and accidently used 
your name.   I havent had much time to read all that has been 
going on here lately as my 3D life (holidays and shopping for 
the children and grandkids has me going 24/7) and rushing out of 
town to greet my nephew upon his return from his 6 month cruise 
in the arabian sea
glad your back, and don't go away again I love reading your posts

U.S. Says New Tape Points to Bin Laden
Words Suggest Sept. 11 Planning Role 
  

By Walter Pincus and Karen DeYoung
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, December 9, 2001; Page A01 


The United States has obtained a videotape of Osama bin Laden 
describing the damage around the World Trade Center -- where the 
twin towers and other buildings were destroyed -- as being much 
greater than he had expected, according to senior government 
officials.

On the tape, which was obtained in Afghanistan during the search 
of a private home in Jalalabad, bin Laden praised God for far 
greater success than he expected, using language that indicated 
he was familiar with the planning of the attacks, according to 
one of the officials.

The administration has blamed bin Laden for the Sept. 11 attacks 
but has not released evidence showing that he directly planned 
or ordered them. Although officials have said they have 
intercepted communications allegedly tying bin Laden or his 
associates to the hijackers, they have not released any such 
material, citing intelligence concerns.

The videotape discovered in Jalalabad offers the most conclusive 
evidence of a connection between bin Laden and the Sept. 11 
attacks in New York and Washington, according to government 
officials who have been briefed on its contents or have read 
transcripts.

Senior Bush administration officials are debating whether and 
how to release the videotape, which some officials hope could 
tamp down concern in the Muslim world that Washington has 
unjustly accused bin Laden.

"It is very clear that bin Laden not only had advance knowledge 
[of the Sept. 11 attacks], but [the video] is proof he was 
responsible for planning," said one senior official who has been 
shown a transcript of the videotape.

The 40-minute tape, which an official said appears to have been 
shot by an amateur, has been viewed by very senior Bush 
administration officials within the past week. Fearful it might 
be a fake, officials sent it to outside experts for review, and 
they declared it "legitimate," one senior official said.

On the tape, according to one official who has heard a 
description of its contents, bin Laden said he was at a dinner 
when first word came that a plane had crashed into a World Trade 
Center tower. Bin Laden said that he told the others at the 
dinner, and that they cheered. He then indicated on the tape 
that more is coming, according to the official.

Bin Laden used his outstretched hands to explain that he 
expected only the top of the Trade Center towers to collapse, 
down to the level where the airliners struck. The eventual total 
collapse of both towers, the al Qaeda leader said, was totally 
unexpected.

U.S. intelligence officials are not certain as to why the tape 
was shot, but in other cases such tapes have been used by al 
Qaeda for recruitment purposes, a senior official said. 
Government officials declined to offer more details of how the 
videotape fell into the U.S. government's hands or which agency 
obtained it.

The new videotape is not the one described last month by British 
Prime Minister Tony Blair. Intelligence sources had obtained 
only a transcript of that tape, not the actual video.

Blair, in a Nov. 10 speech to Parliament, said the transcript of 
an Oct. 20 video shows that bin Laden was asked by an 
interviewer about the New York and Washington attacks. Blair 
said the al Qaeda leader replied: "It is what we instigated, for 
a while, in self defense. And it was revenge for our people 
killed in Palestine and Iraq."

A decision on whether to release information on the newly 
discovered tape is in the hands of presidential counselor Karen 
Hughes, according to a senior official familiar with the 
situation.

Shortly after the September terrorist attacks, President Bush 
gave Hughes the task of managing the White House information 
flow on the Afghan war. Hughes heads a special White House-based 
public relations operation that the United States and Britain 
began early last month to win international public support, 
particularly in the Islamic world, for the anti-terrorist 
campaign.

The public relations group has been concerned with the lack of 
U.S. credibility in the Muslim world, and recent discussions 
about release of the tape have focused on how to get Arab 
audiences to believe its contents -- something that might not 
happen if Washington was the source of the release.

Asked yesterday about the bin Laden tape, Hughes responded 
through deputy White House communications director Jim 
Wilkinson: "We cannot confirm or deny this report. As a matter 
of practice, we do not comment on matters of intelligence or 
military activities."

Secretary of State Colin L. Powell promised on Sept. 23 that the 
United States would produce a document containing compelling 
evidence bin Laden and his network were responsible for the 
attacks. He later said the material was classified and could not 
be released.

On Oct. 4, however, Blair used a speech to Parliament to lay out 
the U.S. proof. He said that Western governments had evidence 
that bin Laden indicated, before the attacks, he was 
preparing "a major attack on America" and that he ordered 
associates to return to Afghanistan by Sept. 10. Blair also said 
a top al Qaeda lieutenant admitted the bin Laden organization 
was responsible for the suicide attacks. That person has not 
been identified and has not made any statements in public.

Evidence shown by U.S. officials to the government of Pakistan 
on Oct. 4 provided "sufficient basis for indictment" of bin 
Laden in a court of law, that country's Foreign Ministry 
spokesman, Riaz Muhammad Khan, said without providing details.

Last month, in releasing a 23-page update of intelligence 
findings, British officials said that another bin Laden 
associate had admitted that he trained some of the hijackers. 
That individual, also, has neither been identified nor has made 
any statement in public.

Bin Laden, himself, has denied a role in the attacks. On Sept. 
12, the day after the attacks, a bin Laden aide told an 
interviewer from al Jazeera television over a satellite phone 
that the al Qaeda leader "thanked Almighty Allah and bowed 
before him when he heard this news," but that "he had no 
information or knowledge about the attack."

On Sept. 17, a bin Laden aide gave the Afghan Islamic Press a 
statement in which bin Laden said: "I have taken an oath of 
allegiance to [Mullah Omar, head of Afghanistan] which does not 
allow me to do such things from Afghanistan. We have been blamed 
in the past, but we were not involved."

In a tape prepared for release over al-Jazeera television after 
the first U.S. missiles fell on Afghanistan on Oct. 7, bin Laden 
again praised the "groups of Islam, vanguards of Islam . . . 
[who] destroyed America," adding, "I pray to God to elevate 
their status and bless them." But he again did not accept 
responsibility for the attack.


  2001 The Washington Post Company



-----------------------------------------------------------------
------

 

When comparing the surprise attack in September to the Pearl 
Harbour attack in 1941, unlike '41 the main ralying cry from our 
governments, your's especially, as I'm sure you're aware 
is, "keep going to the shops, keep spending!". A curious call to 
arms. It doesn't have quite the same ring to it as "You're 
country needs you!". On the one hand people are being told to be 
vigilant and yet on the other to lead their lives as normal. I 
think Mr Spock would say to Captain Kirk in this instance, "It's 
a war Captain, but not as we know it." (Personally I prefer the 
Nimoy and Shatner vintage).

I think the world over, people were glued to their T.V. screens 
for at least the first week after the attack. These images were 
still raw and still incomprehensible for the following 2 or 3 
weeks. As you've rightly noticed many have returned back into 
their old routines, as I suppose one has too. Certainly in 
Britian, people are shopping 'till they drop, sales are up 10% 
on this time last year. Many here as a reaction to what happened 
on Sept 11, have decided to address their fears and 
uncertainties by spending their way out of it. This, I'm sure 
comes as a relief certainly to our Government, which now 
predicts that the U.K. may well still avoid any economic 
recession, despite all the odds. 

There was no way these international terrorists were going to 
compete will the military strength of the U.S. and the combined 
efforts of the N.A.T.O countries should they be required. Their 
main strategy seems to be to undermine the economies of the big 
nations by attacking in unconventional ways in the aim of 
striking fear into the average citizen. The "buy stocks America 
ethic" is indeed the best way to fight back. I'm digressing as I 
have a tendancy to do, but I think aside from the use of 
commercial aircraft and crude biological weapons that have been 
used so far, the next concerted effort to attack may well come 
via the internet. I'd hope American citizens would lobby their 
local representatives to in turn lobby their Government in 
regards to the security of the internet itself. Security on the 
internet needs to be tightend 10 fold, maybe even a 100 fold. 
State sponsored terrorism could have computer specialists attack 
utilities providers (water, electricity..etc) via the web. This 
issue should, in my opinion, be addressed with the utmost 
urgency, because I think that's where attacks will come, from 
where one least expects it.

Getting back to your question, the general 'mood' of Britain 
first in terms of support for how the U.S. has managed to 
conduct this war so far, has on the whole been favourable. 
Secondly, there is a certain detatchment simply because we 
haven't been attacked in the maner you have, yet. The reason I 
first posted to this board, was that I knew that this could have 
happened to anybody. The U.S. just happens to be the biggest 
target. In my view, an attack on one is indeed an attck on ALL! 
It's a big undertaking, to formally state that at the very least 
the threat of international terrorism should be eliminated, but 
then again, what alternative is there? I don't think there is 
one. What's at stake is the freedom of one's children and our 
loved ones generally, to be able to live a life free from this 
menace, something we all took for granted prior to the horrible 
events in September. A line in the sand has to be drawn. I think 
we owe those who come after us, that much.

But I also wouldn't worry too much, I think youngsters are far 
more resiliant than we give them credit for.


Sorry, for the delayed reply om/cf..time's also my enemy, but 
nonetheless I'm happy to find the time!    
          

Everyman: You're brand of subtle humour sir, is sure appreciated!

Snake~~Eyes: Just to say, if the E-mail I sent Allatti2d doesn't 
reach you, I'll post it on the board, but I'll wait awhile if 
that's O.K. Hey!..great news about you're Nephew..good stuff. I 
know you must be busy, but don't leave it too long before your 
next post.:-)

7-12-2001     

 Gas Chamber  Victims were Executed in Special Prison of 
Presidential Office 

 
The statement issued by the Centre for Human Rights on 
31/10/2001, which exposed details of the horrific crime 
committed by the Iraqi regime, under direct supervision of 
Qusay, the younger son of the dictator Saddam Hussein, in 
which 15 political prisoners were executed, Nazi-style,  in a 
 poison gas chamber  on 10 August 2001, received a lot of 
attention from human rights organisations and the media. 

In response to questions received after issuing this 
statement, a spokesman of the Centre for Human Rights 
has today revealed further information about the place 
where the crime was carried out. 

The spokesman said that the location is a special prison 
which is directly controlled by the Presidential Office, where 
political prisoners and others with special sentences are 
held. This prison is situated in a farming area near the town 
of Falluja. A traveller coming from Baghdad would get there 
through a road branching  off  to the left from  the  main road 
leading to the town, about 3 kilometres before Falluja. 

The spokesman has also pointed out that the prison is 
surrounded with a wall built with concrete blocks. Black iron 
gates lead to it. In the space along the left hand part of the 
prison area, there can be found the installation where the 
barbaric crime was committed. It resembles a shelter in 
external appearance. 

The victims were placed inside a specially designed 
chamber and then a poisonous gas was released through 
vents. They were dead within 27 seconds. Their bodies 
were left there for one hour until the gas was extracted 
through a special vent. 

This heinous crime was filmed on video and the film was 
shown to the criminal Qusay. The operation was closely 
supervised by members of his  Special Security  apparatus. 

The Gas Chamber was installed last year and its operation 
began after approval by Qusay. It seems that this barbaric 
method was designed to facilitate mass physical liquidation 
of prisoners and detainees in a shorter time and with less 
effort. The dictatorial regime is continuing its notorious 
 Prison Cleanup  campaign which has so far claimed the 
lives of more than 3000 prisoners and detainees. 

The Centre for Human Rights has exposed the names of 
the perpetrators of the crime, and has also given the names 
of some of the victims. 

====================================

12/09/2001 : "German suspected of dabbling in Iraq 
weapons trade" 

Suspect held in custody since October
German authorities have detained a man they suspect was 
involved in an attempt to sell Iraq material that could be 
used to manufacture weapons, an official said Saturday.
The man, a mechanical engineer who wasn't identified, has 
been in detention since October and is suspected of acting 
as a go-between in the procurement of a weapon, said 
Hubert Jobski, the state attorney in the western city of 
Mannheim.
He said a number of other people were also being 
investigated, but would not give details.
The German newsmagazine Der Spiegel reported Saturday 
that investigators suspect Iraq attempted to buy machines 
that could be used to make large-calibre guns from German 
firms.
UN sanctions, including an arms embargo, were imposed 
on Iraq after the 1990 Persian Gulf War. 

Source:BERLIN (AP) 

==============================

  

Lots of people out there will not be happy with what I write 
here. First off, English is not my native language. I live in 
a Muslim country. I am a modern educated man and my specialty 
is Math education. I watch TV and read American books. Perhaps 
you can say I partly "love" America. I live in this culture 
where I do question "what is America?" Whenever I watch an 
American movie, I wonder what is America trying to sell? For 
example, Americans in this forum are trying to tell the world 
that they are good people and trying to spread good cultural 
values ...why are there SO MANY American movies and TV programs 
showing American people think is morally correct showing them-
selves having illegal sex? When I say Americans are devils 
trying 
to spread mischiefs on earth ....SHOULD THEY BE ANGRY?
 
During WW2 America dropped atomic bombs on Japan which killed 
thousands of "innocent" civilians ..were the Americans thinking 
that non-Americans should die like animals? When the recent TWC 
tragedy happened ...are the Americans the only people who can 
feel hurt? I think Americans are saying that they should teach 
others to feel how they are feeling hurt. Who is hurting you?

Note that I don't use foul language because IT IS MORALLY WRONG 
TO DO SO!

Lots of people out there will not be happy with what I write 
here. First off, English is not my native language. I live in 
a Muslim country. I am a modern educated man and my specialty 
is Math education. I watch TV and read American books. Perhaps 
you can say I partly "love" America. I live in this culture 
where I do question "what is America?" Whenever I watch an 
American movie, I wonder what is America trying to sell? For 
example, Americans in this forum are trying to tell the world 
that they are good people and trying to spread good cultural 
values ...why are there SO MANY American movies and TV programs 
showing American people think is morally correct showing them-
selves having illegal sex? When I say Americans are devils 
trying 
to spread mischiefs on earth ....SHOULD THEY BE ANGRY?
 
During WW2 America dropped atomic bombs on Japan which killed 
thousands of "innocent" civilians ..were the Americans thinking 
that non-Americans should die like animals? When the recent TWC 
tragedy happened ...are the Americans the only people who can 
feel hurt? I think Americans are saying that they should teach 
others to feel how they are feeling hurt. Who is hurting you?

Note that I don't use foul language because IT IS MORALLY WRONG 
TO DO SO!

Kindly show yourself as a true good American. Or perhaps you
reperesent the good American who died in the WTC tragedy. If
anyone wishes to response, I can be reached at: ahc@tm.net.my

Tiger-Chan,
Pearl Harbor wa wasuremashita ka? Nippon kara kimashita ka? 
Watashi no Nippon ni sundeiru Nippon-jin no tomodachi wa baka 
dewa arimasen. Watashi no atama ga ii tomodachi wa sono sensou 
no koto wakarimashita. Anata wa? Nan sai desu ka?

Seems you are quite quick to forget about how America was 
brought into the war.  Have you forgotten Pearl Harbor?  
Manchuria? Nan King? My Japanese friends are not idiots and seem 
to really understand what Word War II was about. I think it 
would be a good thing for you to read a little history. How old 
are you? Were you born yesterday and have only visited the 
Nagasaki and Hiroshima memorials? Have you visits the USS 
Arizona? Have you been to Punch Bowl? That was a war brought on 
by a surprise attack. How can you compare these terroist attacks 
to Pearl Harbor?

We mourn these deaths in American as acts of extreme cowardice 
as are all terrorist acts against innocent civilians. We blame 
the Taliban and the al Qaeda and the extremists who have 
perpetrated these henous acts. Justice should and will be served.

Regardless of which religion you observe, or none at all, a bomb 
in a disco or a civilian aircraft flown into a civilian target, 
ESPECIALLY when not at war, is an act of terrorism. You are 
trying to compare something much worse than apples and oranges.

Sekai no rikishi o yonde kudasai!!

May you be blessed a thousand blessings from above,
Mullah Enaud

Please visit our new state site:
www.Afghansas.com

After that,
Please visit my favorite golf shop on the web:
www.ParShot.com

Tiger-chan,
I apologize for not reading you post more closely. I was under 
the impression that you were Japanese at first because of the 
Tiger-chan. I was so incensed by your comparison that I lost it 
for one brief moment. I do stand by every last word that I wrote!


May you be blessed a thousand blessings from above,
Mullah Enaud

Please visit our new state site:
www.Afghansas.com

After that,
Please visit my favorite golf shop on the web:
www.ParShot.com

Your thesis is correct, however, having grown up in an area 
filled with Jews, I can tell you that the "holier than thou" 
thing is definitely not restricted to Muslims. Muslims have a 
real problem facing a Jew! Jews simply consider that they are 
god given rulers of the world already and everyone else is a 
slave to them. Just ask the Germans why they rose up in World 
War II. Hitler, and others did just what Osama did, using the 
poor to create a military dictatorship. Lots of poor to use 
created a large army in no time at all. 
 Osama is riding on the coat tails of Saddam and as we will soon 
see saddam is stewing right now. His little game plan just went 
south and I sense that my prediction will show this. I feel a 
darkness on or about Dec. 19th. My gut feeling is that Saddam is 
going to try to jump in and try to save his piss poor little 
plan from complete failure. During the first week of the war on 
Afghanistan, Saddam said "the Americans cannot be allowed to win 
the war in Afghanistan" and that is a direct quote. 
 It will be Saddams last mistake, if he tries, it will open the 
door for political support that America is looking for. We shall 
see.........
         Merlyn /|\

Pak nuclear experts may have al-Qaeda links 
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_id=7
75225283

U.K.Citizen: Thank you for the report from the U.K. Im a 
little edgy about the time between now and Christmas like 
Merlyn. Im sure if Usama meets his demise, he had plans in place 
to mark the event.  
 Mullah: I also cannot compare what happened this fall at all to 
Pearl Harbour other than they were both attacks. To the credit 
of the Japanese they at least attacked a military installation 
with their legitamate armed forces. The terrorists attacked 
buildings full of civilians. They deserve no honor.
 JackieChan: Dont lose the math gig! Go have some perfecly 
legal, strong American sex, to calm you down! You may be 
watching too many movies and losing touch with 
reality.             

Dressed To Kill
From Kabul to Kandahar, It's Not Who You Are That Matters, but 
What You Shoot 
 
By Stephen Hunter
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, November 26, 2001; Page C01 

(Excerpt)

You won't see guns like that carried by the Taliban, no sir. 
Look at Osama bin Laden's gun. It's visible in any of a dozen 
pictures and it's tubeless, screenless and grenade-launcherless. 
But it, too, is not only a gun. It's a gun with a coded message; 
you can read this guy like a book.

He's certainly no Captain Winters from HBO's "Band of Brothers," 
who, despite his natural genius for soldiering, insisted on 
carrying the line soldier's prosaic M1 all the way to 
Berchtesgarten. No, bin Laden's narcissism -- dead giveaway to a 
fake tough guy -- mandates that he make a fashion statement.

Any idiot knows that was an AK-47 leaning against the cave wall 
behind bin Laden during his videotaped response to the American 
bombing. Yes, the AK-47, the most famous of the liberation 
firearms distributed globally by the Soviet Union and its client 
states during the Cold War. There may be 50 million of them 
floating around the globe today.

Except it wasn't. But if you're one of the idiots, don't feel 
bad; you belong with the other 99.9 percent of the population 
that doesn't know anything about guns. Bin Laden's rifle wasn't 
an AK-47 at all, but one of its descendants, an AK-74, and of a 
particular modification that included, for portability and ease 
of handling, a very short barrel and a folding skeletonized 
stock and a flash suppressor. It's called a Krinkov.

It's actually a hybrid. If you crossed a classic 7.62mm x 39 
Soviet AK-47 with an American 5.56mm NATO M4, its natural 
antagonist in about a million firefights in about 75 wars, 
insurrections and special-ops tiffs, you'd get the AK-74, which 
is the AK-47 mechanism reconfigured to fire the smaller-caliber, 
high-velocity round. Then you trick it up; by cutting the barrel 
and adding that folding stock, you get a Krinkov, which is the 
current hot lick among people who want to be noticed. It was 
designed for airborne troops. If you're not going to be jumping 
out of airplanes, it doesn't do anything for you that the 47 
won't.

Bin Laden knows this: For him the gun isn't just a weapon, it's 
a symbol. He's making a statement, as with the curved ceremonial 
dagger that hangs from his belt when he's all duded-up in his 
white finery. He is making a claim: I am of the elite. In other 
words, he is saying something so Western it suggests the soul-
deep depth of his hypocrisy. He is saying: I am so cool. 

A fellow who favors posing with a Krinkov has delusions of 
grandeur, and he'll try to take over no matter the venue.

Bin Laden wouldn't be caught dead with a regular old AK, but his 
men are, all over the place. In a funny way, I like it better 
that he has this little vanity. I don't think he's a good enough 
man for an AK-47 and what it stands for. This is the true symbol 
of the war, for both sides seem to have it in the thousands, and 
no matter where the war blows next, you can bet that most of the 
close-in killing will be done with that old war horse. That cold 
wind you just felt, that was the chill of history.

Editors comments: Could this behavior be related, psychologically
speaking, to the well known fact, that Usama is, well, something
less than hung like a donkey.

 

[[We mourn these deaths in American as acts of extreme cowardice 
as are all terrorist acts against innocent civilians. We blame 
the Taliban and the al Qaeda and the extremists who have 
perpetrated these henous acts. Justice should and will be 
served.]]

I saw the September 11 on TV. I was writing Emails to my American
pen pals. I did ask myself, why would some insane people kill 
innocent people in those WTC buildings? Who did it? Immediately
it came to my thoughts that it was the work of Palestinian arabs.
When I imagine the faces of the Palestian arabs, they seem sad
and gloomy, desperate people who see no future in their own home-
land. When the Jews destroy their homes and take their land, 
kill 
their families, who were there to protect them? Why would they 
prefer to become suicide bombers?

I imagine this too, people who have nothing left would rather
die than live to bear the pain. Perhaps those people could get
together and form a suicide force, because they think they 
have no other way to destroy their enemies. As they would say,
"we die, THEY die too". And who are the THEY? They are the Jews,
Americans and the Muslims too who didn't care to see their
hardships and sufferings. The Jews took their homeland, the 
Americans help the Jews by giving them financial support to
buy weapons, the arab nations didn't care ...so destroy them
all. So they planned well, they went to Amerika to get it done.
Commit suicide to feel their last pain and let the people
worldwide know about their pain. 

Okay, why punish Amerika? The WTC had people of all nationa-
lies, not only American citizens alone. They did to tell the
world to look at the Palestinian people. They will all soon
die, then destroying Amerika if they could is their aim.
They cannot blow up the whole world, perhaps America is just
the right spot to do it. Its a beginning of a global war.
Between justice and injustice. They did perhaps seeking their
own form of justice? What is justice. Is it that it has to be 
only America that defines it?

And about Bin Laden ...that son of a bitch knows the Palestinian
people's sufferings. He is extremely rich and living in all
the luxuries he could afford. Now this "idiot" left all his
riches behind just to tell those Palestinian bastards that
an Arab is finally helping them ..kill those Americans, Jews 
and Muslims for them. Of course this the work of a handful
Muslims. Note my rude language, I am now like an American?

[[Dont lose the math gig! Go have some perfecly legal, strong 
American sex, to calm you down! You may be watching too many 
movies and losing touch with reality]]

The reality is that we are very concerned about the American
culture is spoiling our people here. We have a bad government
who takes "all" that's from America. Even the internet there 
is enough of them. That's why the Taliban immediately say 
NO internet and TV.

[[We mourn these deaths in American as acts of extreme cowardice 
as are all terrorist acts against innocent civilians. We blame 
the Taliban and the al Qaeda and the extremists who have 
perpetrated these henous acts. Justice should and will be 
served.]]

I saw the September 11 on TV. I was writing Emails to my American
pen pals. I did ask myself, why would some insane people kill 
innocent people in those WTC buildings? Who did it? Immediately
it came to my thoughts that it was the work of Palestinian arabs.
When I imagine the faces of the Palestian arabs, they seem sad
and gloomy, desperate people who see no future in their own home-
land. When the Jews destroy their homes and take their land, 
kill 
their families, who were there to protect them? Why would they 
prefer to become suicide bombers?

I imagine this too, people who have nothing left would rather
die than live to bear the pain. Perhaps those people could get
together and form a suicide force, because they think they 
have no other way to destroy their enemies. As they would say,
"we die, THEY die too". And who are the THEY? They are the Jews,
Americans and the Muslims too who didn't care to see their
hardships and sufferings. The Jews took their homeland, the 
Americans help the Jews by giving them financial support to
buy weapons, the arab nations didn't care ...so destroy them
all. So they planned well, they went to Amerika to get it done.
Commit suicide to feel their last pain and let the people
worldwide know about their pain. 

Okay, why punish Amerika? The WTC had people of all nationa-
lies, not only American citizens alone. They did to tell the
world to look at the Palestinian people. They will all soon
die, then destroying Amerika if they could is their aim.
They cannot blow up the whole world, perhaps America is just
the right spot to do it. Its a beginning of a global war.
Between justice and injustice. They did perhaps seeking their
own form of justice? What is justice. Is it that it has to be 
only America that defines it?

And about Bin Laden ...that son of a bitch knows the Palestinian
people's sufferings. He is extremely rich and living in all
the luxuries he could afford. Now this "idiot" left all his
riches behind just to tell those Palestinian bastards that
an Arab is finally helping them ..kill those Americans, Jews 
and Muslims for them. Of course this the work of a handful
Muslims. Note my rude language, I am now like an American?

[[Dont lose the math gig! Go have some perfecly legal, strong 
American sex, to calm you down! You may be watching too many 
movies and losing touch with reality]]

The reality is that we are very concerned about the American
culture is spoiling our people here. We have a bad government
who takes "all" that's from America. Even the internet there 
is enough of them. That's why the Taliban immediately say 
NO internet and TV.

The only reason the Taliban say No internet and TV is to
control the people, which they would not have if the people had
access to other sources of information. In short they are
weak leaders who forced their mutilated version of Islam to
get and keep control of Afghanistan with the help of a wealthy
nutcase who does not care about his people or any other people.
 Look at Muslim countries that are the most sucessful, they
have allowed the people some freedom and are modern. They do
not try to force their people to live as they did 500 years
ago. And Islam still thrives in these countries. Why is that?

I gotta say, I sometimes have SERIOUS DOUBTS that this fucker is 
even in Afghanistan.  There were many many years for the scumbag 
and his dogs to formulate their plans and I believe the fucker 
is not EVEN in Afghanistan!  I know the papers are saying they 
hear him etc. but my feeling is that he is NOT there and very 
well protected and insulated, maybe even in Eygypt somewhere.  I 
know this sounds a bit off, lol. BUT, has anyone ever thought 
that maybe just MAYBE Dog Ladin has a DOUBLE or someone that is 
masquerading as him so that when he does get taken out, he will 
still be very much alive?   What are your SERIOUS opinions on 
this. I am about to have a second cup of hot cocoa now.  Eagle, 
Alatti2, Spy, Radio Europe, Holland/Italy, etc. thinking of all 
of you and hoping you are okay.

The Muslims in Afghanistan were poor, run down and deprived. But 
they are not without self-respect and hope. Once the Queen Osama 
is deposed, dead or not, he will have humiliated every Muslim on 
earth! No one, especially a Muslim will ever want anything to do 
with Osama or his ludicrous mutilation of the Muslim faith ever 
again. Just like you can still find a fanatic Nazi or two, still 
around, no one will follow an idiot like that ever again. Nor 
will they ever follow Muslim extremists. This is what makes 
Saddam a threat today. This is his last chance. If his sick 
movement fails now, it will never succeed. No one wants to save 
him, like a drowning man, Saddam will take anyone that sides 
with him to the depth of the hell he is headed for. Like a 
cornered snake, we must be ready for him to strike. 
          Merlyn /|\

tempores mutantur et nos in illis! in signo aedificii ascendi 
prudentia vixit et imperat orbi mundi? pro amicitia et libertas 
per multos annos peto.

No Habla Espanol

Hi. I just want to let you know that I think it is horrible how 
many people died (on both sides) in WWII. Japan had no 
intention of giving up in the war until the two bombs were 
dropped. However, these two gigantic bombs killed far less 
people than the thousands of other bombs that were being 
dropped. I mean, millions of Japanese were killed in 
conventional bombings. Had the war gone on, many more 
would have been killed (no smart bombs back then). The 
attacks on the world trade center were made with no 
declaration of war and with no military target involved. It was  
the dumbest thing Osama ever did for Islam. I certainly do 
not claim that America is a "moral" nation, but I believe all 
people are born with free will and when this will is taken 
from them by a temporal power - bad things begin to 
happen. What sort of faith is it if it cannot choose? 

I am sorry for the rest of the world that the United States has 
a much larger and superior military. But do not be so stupid 
as to think you can hit the country and not be hit back! Does 
an 80 lb weakling go up to a professional wrestler and slap 
him in the face? I don't think so. This world is full of stupid 
people that think the only answer is to kill themselves and 
take as many people with them as possible. 

Just a short lesson on Economy though. People sell what 
others are willing to buy. When hollywood producers set out 
to make a movie, they try to make it marketable. You are 
under no obligation to buy. If you don't like the concept, don't 
see the movie! It's that simple! Why do people need their 
choices to be made for them?? crazy.

Farewell. I am sorry that the world is messed up. It's our job 
as human being to live here though and do what we can to 
improve it. I'll do my best and you do yours. 

Parlez vous Francais?

Do not be so sure that Osamas' passing or not will have
any effect the fanatical side of Islam. It will only make
them more committed, he has achieved rock star status, even
in such places as Pakistan. He will only be the Jimi Hendrix
of the Muslim extremists. Rock music was around before Jimmi
and after as well. (my apologies to any for that comparison).
 These extremists are worlwide and not all led by any one
man. Sodamn, I believe you are right, is an crazy man who always
had great dreams for himself in whatever sick, distorted way
they could be achieved. He is getting older, hasnt really
accomplished shit, has a son who would be on death row right
next to dear old dad in most civilized countrys, and is 
getting more bold and verble about the sanctions agianst Iraq.
He also knows evidence against him regaurding terrorist support
will be his undoing. He is a desperate piece of shit that
must be watched closely.
 Murdering your own citizens in Iraq is another case of being
,Okey Dokey, if you do it in the name of Islam. But Allah forbid
if the infidels throw a little freedom around in Afghanistan
in route to the goal of crushing al-Quacky. 
 Got to get back to my Taliban arerobic exercises now, talk a 
bunch of shit for 2 minutes, then hold your hands above your
head for 30 minutes in the stratigic withdrawl position.

"Serious stuff"
"Yet despite the US coming up with its own new proposals, many 
countries fear this will not be enough to cope with the growing 
threat of bio-terrorism."
(And this would be the "serious stuff"?)
What's the problem? I think the U.S. will make effective
proposals for that problem, because it's their own interest.

"According to Nicholas Sims any new US proposals are not likely 
to be well received. 
I would expect them to be received coolly because the United 
States is seen as having disqualified itself from contributing 
to the strengthening of the convention by its rejectionist 
attitude." 
I think U.S. either will re-qualify itself with an accepting 
attitude or anyway will suitably face that problem, always 
because it's their own interest.

"Experts are also concerned that the Americans are opposing
moves to toughen up the treaty to protect its own biological 
defence programme, as well as the US pharmaceutical industry."
Well, don't they have the right to protect their biological
defence program?

"After all you're in the land of the free.  Free to be ignorant 
anyway."
As you show, you are so stupid and naive to think that every 
article expressing doubts on the U.S. behaviour or talking in a 
slightly negative way about it is good as an "accusation" 
towards the U.S.A. or as a "demonstration" of something or 
anyway as an argumentation against the U.S.A. to post on this 
board.
And after this RIGHT YOU accuse somebody of ignorance?

"The rest of us are in the land of reality. 
It's not clear if "us" means the Muslims, the U.K., or all 
non-Americans. Anyway you personly can't talk about realism.
On this board you continuously demonstrate to be stupid and 
illused. Also Islam in general can't claim to be realistic, 
as the recent and the present events show.

"We can explain "reality" to you if you guys want to attend a 
lecture on it."
But your lecture on reality would be that the U.S.A. are 
"guilty" of supporting Israel, and "therefore" you Muslims are
now looking for EVERY POSSIBLE (or stupid) ACCUSATION to make 
to them??
About reality lectures, I think now Bush is giving a beautiful
one to you anti-American Islam.

"Instead of invoking its legal powers, the Pentagon bought 
exclusive rights to all Ikonos satellite pictures of Afghanistan 
off Space Imaging, the company which runs the satellite.
...Since images of the bombed Afghan bases would not have 
shown the position of US forces or compromised US military 
security..."
I wouldn't be sure about last sentence.
The Pentagon didn't buy the rights to the pictures of bombed 
bases only, or of dead civilians only, but to ALL satellite 
pictures. (It was anyway allowed to buy them). 
Amongst all pictures broadcasted from the satellite there could
potentially be some compromising U.S. military security.
Therefore, this can be the reason.

"...The deal keeps other eyes off the war zone and allows a 
different look."
It's strange if their aim was to distorce the truth about the 
effects of war actions, since all the same we're often 
getting pieces about civilian casualities, misguided bombs 
and victims of friend fire, at least we here in Italy.

"Your media are totally biased."
To demonstrate this sentence you utilized and article of
IslamOnLine about an American Islam-sympathizer journalist.
Like this are your "demonstrations"? How naive you are.
About your sentence the truth is that at most they can be 
only partly biased, but I think it'll be never comparable
to how biased Islam media are by reporting about 
Israeli-Palestinian issue. THEY are really totally biased.

"This second article shows how your media is controlled...."
I'd better say it shows how fool you are.

"Weir's experiences in the Palestinian-populated area were much 
different from what she expected, said the paper. 
She said the region usually is portrayed as anti-American and 
hostile toward women, but she was surprised at how welcoming 
and friendly the people were."
And ACTUALLY it was so strange.... Did they know yet that she 
was a western reporter sympathizing them?

"She said her articles focused more on the impact of the 
fighting on Palestinians, while newspapers reported Israeli 
deaths in the headlines and Palestinian deaths in the body text."
If it's like this those mewspapers had to be right stupid.
Question: did she make no articles focusing the impact of 
Palestinian kamikaze attacks on Israeli? Or about how Palestinian
schools trained children and boys to hate Jews?

"She tied the U.S. media's bias to the large amount of money 
that Israel annually receives from the U.S. to buy arms. 
She said cutting off support to Israel might make them more 
willing to compromise with the Palestinians."
(Not bad, as propaganda of IslamOnLine).
I'd better say cutting off support to Israel might make them all
exterminated by Arab countries. (Maybe she'd like it).

"Palestinians are dying by the ammunition bought with American 
taxpayers' money," Weir said. 
And Israelis are dying with the explosives bought with Arab 
taxpayers' - and of oil - money, didn't she know?

"Our blank check to Israel is preventing the peace process 
that needs to take place."
Instead Bush is unbiasedly pushing on both parts for peace
- but you don't understand it.

"She listed ways Israelis discriminate against Palestinians, 
saying Israelis are building highways, or "bypass roads," in 
the occupied territories that Palestinian cars marked with 
different colored license plates are not allowed to use."
Yes, Israelis are showing arrogance. And now they're also 
going with a heavy hand on retaliations. 
But this situation was WANTED and PROVOCATED from 
Palestinians, form Arabs and from Islam. WHY didn't 
Palestitian accept the 1948 ONU resolution, which assigned 
lands to both parts? They could live in peace since then. 
WHY did Palestinian prefer to continuoulsy kill Jews with 
bloody terrorist attacks? WHY did they keep on like this 
even if Israelis always answered the slaughters with 
moderate retaliations - DID SOMEBODY FORGET THIS??? - 
until begin of eighties, when Israelis finally started 
doing massive retaliations campaignes against them?
What for an attitude did Palestinians expect now from 
Israelis, and how want they get to peace, after they've
cultivated PURE HATRED in their schools for decades, 
through progressive training programs? In Palestinian 
low-level schools, children were trained to make the 
gesture of piercing a bayonet in a sack, labeled "Jew". 
In middle-level schools, boys were trained to quite deeply
pierce the bayonet in the sack. (In high schools, I don't 
know what they were trained to do... guerriglia?)

"Checkpoints, heavily guarded by soldiers - Weir called 
them "death points" - often denied Palestinians access to 
extensive areas within Israel, she said."
Never for security reasons?

"Palestinians called "terrorists" are actually "terrorized 
victims who [have] tragically, but explicably, turned to 
violence [themselves]," Weir said."
Then quite the same can we say for Israelis:
Israelis called "terrorists" (by you) are actually 
"terrorized victims who [have] tragically, but explicably, 
turned to violence [themselves]". 
Didn't you think about it?

"This third article is self explanatory..
Protesters clash over CNN coverage
...The protesters said millions of refugees and residents in 
Afghanistan face starvation but CNN isn't telling the story."
It's strange if CNN didn't talk about that. Here we know from
the media that there is such mass starvation danger and that 
UNO is making appeals for that, maybe since September, the 
last appeal a few days ago. In the US no pieces about it?

EVEN MORE!....

"As the devastation in Afghanistan 
becomes clearer, as stories of broken bodies and blood and 
flattened Red Cross depots and orphaned children and weeping 
mothers trickle out of the war-torn and drought-stricken 
country, the White House and the State Department and the 
Pentagon fire back: Don't believe it. It's propaganda... 
Why is there so much Washington doesn't want you to know?"
Very strange, if Washington is trying to deny these facts.
Again, we In Italy are often getting pieces about civilian 
casualities, misguided bombs and victims of friend fire.
In the US no pieces about it?
Was the pantagon referring to the normal pieces about this 
matter, that we all know, or about the exagerated or quite 
fake pieces of the Taliban propaganda, that since begin of 
war they always tried to make?

More...!

"Jack Kelley of USA Today wrote a cover story called
"Vigilantes take up arms, vow to expel 'Muslim filth'".
In it, he describes Israeli extremists and terrorists
and their hatred of Muslims."
(They have their reasons to hate them, as I explained 
above).

"It was one of the best and objective major cover 
stories exposing the Israeli terrorism against 
Palestinians."
(But weren't western media TOTALLY biased, you fool??)
Well, I have read it. It seems to be a little bit biased 
towards Palestinians. And I'm not sure it's so 
objective, it's as if Kelley wouldn't say something...
Why do the settlers accuse the police of failing to stop 
the Arab violence, and throw rocks at them? But then, 
there is also a relevant violence from Arab side? This
is not specified.

"Mr. Kelley is very upset because he is under tremendous
and overwhelming pressure from the criticism pouring
down on him from Zionists worldwide due to his truthful
article."
What he wrote could be truthful but maybe he didn't 
write ALL what there was to say. I don't know if that
criticism had reason.

"In July, Jewish vigilantes killed three Palestinians, 
including a 3-month-old boy, in Nablus. The State 
Department condemned the attack as a ''barbaric act'' 
of ''unconscionable vigilantism.'' No one has been 
charged in the attack."
Here there's to observe that also Arafat often condemns
the Palestinian attacks but usually noone gets charged
in them.

Anyway Kelley's article DOESN'T CLAIM your "cause". 
Those vigilantes act by their own enterprise, they 
don't represent the government's will - unlike the 
Palestinian terrorists. Then, you may talk about 
"terrorism" of some extremist Israeli PEOPLE, not of 
Israeli GOVERNMENT. It's different.

In conclusion, about the media, in order to convince
us the western media are so biased, you "UK voices" 
use REALLY biased opinions and are showing us how 
biased are Muslim fonts.

"Serious stuff"
"Yet despite the US coming up with its own new proposals, many 
countries fear this will not be enough to cope with the growing 
threat of bio-terrorism."
(And this would be the "serious stuff"?)
What's the problem? I think the U.S. will make effective
proposals for that problem, because it's their own interest.

"According to Nicholas Sims any new US proposals are not likely 
to be well received. 
I would expect them to be received coolly because the United 
States is seen as having disqualified itself from contributing 
to the strengthening of the convention by its rejectionist 
attitude." 
I think U.S. either will re-qualify itself with an accepting 
attitude or anyway will suitably face that problem, always 
because it's their own interest.

"Experts are also concerned that the Americans are opposing
moves to toughen up the treaty to protect its own biological 
defence programme, as well as the US pharmaceutical industry."
Well, don't they have the right to protect their biological
defence program?

"After all you're in the land of the free.  Free to be ignorant 
anyway."
As you show, you are so stupid and naive to think that every 
article expressing doubts on the U.S. behaviour or talking in a 
slightly negative way about it is good as an "accusation" 
towards the U.S.A. or as a "demonstration" of something or 
anyway as an argumentation against the U.S.A. to post on this 
board.
And after this RIGHT YOU accuse somebody of ignorance?

"The rest of us are in the land of reality. 
It's not clear if "us" means the Muslims, the U.K., or all 
non-Americans. Anyway you personly can't talk about realism.
On this board you continuously demonstrate to be stupid and 
illused. Also Islam in general can't claim to be realistic, 
as the recent and the present events show.

"We can explain "reality" to you if you guys want to attend a 
lecture on it."
But your lecture on reality would be that the U.S.A. are 
"guilty" of supporting Israel, and "therefore" you Muslims are
now looking for EVERY POSSIBLE (or stupid) ACCUSATION to make 
to them??
About reality lectures, I think now Bush is giving a beautiful
one to you anti-American Islam.

"Instead of invoking its legal powers, the Pentagon bought 
exclusive rights to all Ikonos satellite pictures of Afghanistan 
off Space Imaging, the company which runs the satellite.
...Since images of the bombed Afghan bases would not have 
shown the position of US forces or compromised US military 
security..."
I wouldn't be sure about last sentence.
The Pentagon didn't buy the rights to the pictures of bombed 
bases only, or of dead civilians only, but to ALL satellite 
pictures. (It was anyway allowed to buy them). 
Amongst all pictures broadcasted from the satellite there could
potentially be some compromising U.S. military security.
Therefore, this can be the reason.

"...The deal keeps other eyes off the war zone and allows a 
different look."
It's strange if their aim was to distorce the truth about the 
effects of war actions, since all the same we're often 
getting pieces about civilian casualities, misguided bombs 
and victims of friend fire, at least we here in Italy.

"Your media are totally biased."
To demonstrate this sentence you utilized and article of
IslamOnLine about an American Islam-sympathizer journalist.
Like this are your "demonstrations"? How naive you are.
About your sentence the truth is that at most they can be 
only partly biased, but I think it'll be never comparable
to how biased Islam media are by reporting about 
Israeli-Palestinian issue. THEY are really totally biased.

"This second article shows how your media is controlled...."
I'd better say it shows how fool you are.

"Weir's experiences in the Palestinian-populated area were much 
different from what she expected, said the paper. 
She said the region usually is portrayed as anti-American and 
hostile toward women, but she was surprised at how welcoming 
and friendly the people were."
And ACTUALLY it was so strange.... Did they know yet that she 
was a western reporter sympathizing them?

"She said her articles focused more on the impact of the 
fighting on Palestinians, while newspapers reported Israeli 
deaths in the headlines and Palestinian deaths in the body text."
If it's like this those mewspapers had to be right stupid.
Question: did she make no articles focusing the impact of 
Palestinian kamikaze attacks on Israeli? Or about how Palestinian
schools trained children and boys to hate Jews?

"She tied the U.S. media's bias to the large amount of money 
that Israel annually receives from the U.S. to buy arms. 
She said cutting off support to Israel might make them more 
willing to compromise with the Palestinians."
(Not bad, as propaganda of IslamOnLine).
I'd better say cutting off support to Israel might make them all
exterminated by Arab countries. (Maybe she'd like it).

"Palestinians are dying by the ammunition bought with American 
taxpayers' money," Weir said. 
And Israelis are dying with the explosives bought with Arab 
taxpayers' - and of oil - money, didn't she know?

"Our blank check to Israel is preventing the peace process 
that needs to take place."
Instead Bush is unbiasedly pushing on both parts for peace
- but you don't understand it.

"She listed ways Israelis discriminate against Palestinians, 
saying Israelis are building highways, or "bypass roads," in 
the occupied territories that Palestinian cars marked with 
different colored license plates are not allowed to use."
Yes, Israelis are showing arrogance. And now they're also 
going with a heavy hand on retaliations. 
But this situation was WANTED and PROVOCATED from 
Palestinians, form Arabs and from Islam. WHY didn't 
Palestitian accept the 1948 ONU resolution, which assigned 
lands to both parts? They could live in peace since then. 
WHY did Palestinian prefer to continuoulsy kill Jews with 
bloody terrorist attacks? WHY did they keep on like this 
even if Israelis always answered the slaughters with 
moderate retaliations - DID SOMEBODY FORGET THIS??? - 
until begin of eighties, when Israelis finally started 
doing massive retaliations campaignes against them?
What for an attitude did Palestinians expect now from 
Israelis, and how want they get to peace, after they've
cultivated PURE HATRED in their schools for decades, 
through progressive training programs? In Palestinian 
low-level schools, children were trained to make the 
gesture of piercing a bayonet in a sack, labeled "Jew". 
In middle-level schools, boys were trained to quite deeply
pierce the bayonet in the sack. (In high schools, I don't 
know what they were trained to do... guerriglia?)

"Checkpoints, heavily guarded by soldiers - Weir called 
them "death points" - often denied Palestinians access to 
extensive areas within Israel, she said."
Never for security reasons?

"Palestinians called "terrorists" are actually "terrorized 
victims who [have] tragically, but explicably, turned to 
violence [themselves]," Weir said."
Then quite the same can we say for Israelis:
Israelis called "terrorists" (by you) are actually 
"terrorized victims who [have] tragically, but explicably, 
turned to violence [themselves]". 
Didn't you think about it?

"This third article is self explanatory..
Protesters clash over CNN coverage
...The protesters said millions of refugees and residents in 
Afghanistan face starvation but CNN isn't telling the story."
It's strange if CNN didn't talk about that. Here we know from
the media that there is such mass starvation danger and that 
UNO is making appeals for that, maybe since September, the 
last appeal a few days ago. In the US no pieces about it?

EVEN MORE!....

"As the devastation in Afghanistan 
becomes clearer, as stories of broken bodies and blood and 
flattened Red Cross depots and orphaned children and weeping 
mothers trickle out of the war-torn and drought-stricken 
country, the White House and the State Department and the 
Pentagon fire back: Don't believe it. It's propaganda... 
Why is there so much Washington doesn't want you to know?"
Very strange, if Washington is trying to deny these facts.
Again, we In Italy are often getting pieces about civilian 
casualities, misguided bombs and victims of friend fire.
In the US no pieces about it?
Was the pantagon referring to the normal pieces about this 
matter, that we all know, or about the exagerated or quite 
fake pieces of the Taliban propaganda, that since begin of 
war they always tried to make?

More...!

"Jack Kelley of USA Today wrote a cover story called
"Vigilantes take up arms, vow to expel 'Muslim filth'".
In it, he describes Israeli extremists and terrorists
and their hatred of Muslims."
(They have their reasons to hate them, as I explained 
above).

"It was one of the best and objective major cover 
stories exposing the Israeli terrorism against 
Palestinians."
(But weren't western media TOTALLY biased, you fool??)
Well, I have read it. It seems to be a little bit biased 
towards Palestinians. And I'm not sure it's so 
objective, it's as if Kelley wouldn't say something...
Why do the settlers accuse the police of failing to stop 
the Arab violence, and throw rocks at them? But then, 
there is also a relevant violence from Arab side? This
is not specified.

"Mr. Kelley is very upset because he is under tremendous
and overwhelming pressure from the criticism pouring
down on him from Zionists worldwide due to his truthful
article."
What he wrote could be truthful but maybe he didn't 
write ALL what there was to say. I don't know if that
criticism had reason.

"In July, Jewish vigilantes killed three Palestinians, 
including a 3-month-old boy, in Nablus. The State 
Department condemned the attack as a ''barbaric act'' 
of ''unconscionable vigilantism.'' No one has been 
charged in the attack."
Here there's to observe that also Arafat often condemns
the Palestinian attacks but usually noone gets charged
in them.

Anyway Kelley's article DOESN'T CLAIM your "cause". 
Those vigilantes act by their own enterprise, they 
don't represent the government's will - unlike the 
Palestinian terrorists. Then, you may talk about 
"terrorism" of some extremist Israeli PEOPLE, not of 
Israeli GOVERNMENT. It's different.

In conclusion, about the media, in order to convince
us the western media are so biased, you "UK voices" 
use REALLY biased opinions and are showing us how 
biased are Muslim fonts.

Sorry, it was adressed to UK voices, not to you. 
All you out there choose all similar nicknames.

Justice, we too thought he may have disapeared for a moment....

But currently hes just too "non grata" anywhere except maybe in Iraq.

Then again, as satellites are doing regular "pit-stops" over iraq at the moment and the 
area is crawling with AWACS, we're not too sure even Saddam would have him for tea 
and a water-pipe...


We think he's up there all right, freezing his balls off

Osama Bin Laden's mother said she is satisfied with her son.
Well we here in Naples have a proverb that's quite suitable for 
this regard:
"Every cockroach is beautiful, to his mother".

From: x 
To: humanitas 
Subject: ... 
Date: Sun Dec 9 16:31:15 2001 
Message:

your post:

tempores mutantur et nos in illis! in signo aedificii ascendi 
prudentia vixit et imperat orbi mundi? pro amicitia et libertas 
per multos annos peto.


us:

Ozlint vo dri, morvit ju wynlarce; groum, nalista yem, sernag morvit harle athran xi sernag 
frimba lamax er? Ju, nix; furng gronk berot wex relnag cree delm brul helk srung xu, 
lydran arka erc wynlarce nalista dri re relnag wex ma cree, vo kurnap wynlarce lamax, 
frimba wex ma er su kurnap xi whik. Relnag pank tolaspa athran. Qi flim... vo, nix dri 
sernag galph sernag lamax gronk ewayf. Vo furng jince flim urfa tolaspa; dwint, ti wex 
yem su sernag lydran clum gra, ewayf rintax nalista, obrikt ju yiphras srung jince flim whik 
vusp! Whik korsa flim morvit ma, galph su epp clum cree; qi su teng helk frimba, gra 
twock erk irpsa ma. Lydran xu; athran berot frimba ux. 
     Cree wex xi sernag arul prinquis; velar clum galph wex ik thung. Er erc ozlint xi er jince 
ju ik. Teng clum quolt su berot anu quolt erk gronk frimba groum. Menardis er brul, velar; 
dwint thung tolaspa fli brul furng velar lamax zorl brul, tolaspa nalista. Nix la ewayf ozlint 
epp velar, lydran menardis; er korsa ozlint whik, helk nalista ozlint whik gen nalista. Lydran 
menardis, prinquis groum; teng galph, frimba nix rhull? Yiphras zorl, wynlarce ma jince 
rintax ewayf tolaspa flim athran furng vusp irpsa quolt erk groum, frimba la. Ju xi rhull dri fli. 
Clum zorl helk yiphras er   korsa velar arul rhull zeuhl tharn. 
     Vusp yiphras morvit galph cree gronk srung brul ux er. Rhull zorl sernag, flim prinquis 
frimba ewayf, helk lydran gra groum pank! Nix urfa... ozlint harle kurnap urfa berot dwint 
lydran gen arka! Teng, erc brul epp ma; rintax arul prinquis wynlarce zorl delm re furng 
delm ma gronk sernag kurnap korsa sernag. 
     Brul harle ti... teng yiphras tharn xi ju tolaspa dri nalista twock re nalista, gen ik erc lamax 
galph yem flim prinquis. Tharn nalista er nix galph; xi harle flim obrikt rintax, athran srung 
furng su. Dwint tharn lydran zorl furng; twock, dwint tharn lydran xu jince arul jince. Gra vusp 
er thung prinquis nix vo. Sernag korsa jince tolaspa frimba clum ik delm xu, su whik dwint 
velar... qi furng ewayf. 
     Zeuhl ti whik ma. Rintax helk yiphras, delm helk dri. Arka dwint vusp flim... clum ik tharn 
clum gen su thung whik nalista su athran re rhull ewayf ma urfa sernag jince lamax! Groum, 
tharn er; sernag epp harle zorl qi, rhull su sernag harle teng. Dri zorl dwint morvit xi irpsa 
thung, twock ux ewayf morvit harle vo. Ma delm wynlarce, arul dri... frimba irpsa morvit 
urfa vusp ju ik, tharn ux ti. Frimba athran frimba vo prinquis, rhull gra rintax cree fli zorl gen 
athran arka rintax frimba clum arul su. Ewayf zorl; nalista, urfa helk ju yem relnag frimba 
obrikt teng irpsa, galph jince. 
     Whik menardis er. Helk, arka ewayf; cree, galph sernag vo? Obrikt wex twock zorl er 
dwint helk sernag furng. Urfa morvit re gronk relnag arka irpsa la ti thung prinquis xi 
menardis fli. Ju, tharn flim vo kurnap urfa tolaspa vusp er. Nalista zeuhl nalista ewayf korsa 
erc morvit xi flim fli gra ma velar clum morvit berot? Xi kurnap frimba wynlarce relnag urfa 
srung er, furng tharn delm srung pank whik teng galph ma su. 
     Rhull ma ozlint obrikt relnag, er xi su. Thung nalista furng pank re relnag yem obrikt 
srung yem, tharn tolaspa ju, dwint; srung su yiphras harle. Ju rintax, er rhull ux zeuhl; flim 
prinquis wex re yem, ewayf galph quolt su dri srung kurnap teng nalista gen galph wex 
dri wynlarce. Zeuhl gronk prinquis teng gen irpsa; tharn gronk, pank ti menardis yem dwint 
frimba su, kurnap berot. Xi tharn, quolt frimba, yem delm furng xi lydran... ma korsa dwint 
la yem fli nix, ewayf whik la. Clum, gen jince; ma su, anu gen irpsa xu clum vo relnag helk 
yem dwint vo qi. 
     Srung er zorl, er... ux irpsa nalista tolaspa rhull groum ux nalista wynlarce ux clum jince 
wex prinquis su thung dri! Ma harle menardis vo pank   fli ewayf anu delm ik gra irpsa 
brul zeuhl. Rintax tharn irpsa urfa dwint pank nalista nix nalista ik flim   cree ik tharn sernag 
nix ju brul jince er! Yiphras er harle; lydran tolaspa ozlint kurnap urfa, la ju vo arka. Zeuhl 
relnag su? Er jince er harle, athran ju dwint dri flim! Wynlarce morvit, harle furng menardis 
nalista velar prinquis dri morvit; xu irpsa. Galph tolaspa er groum pank tharn rhull; korsa 
harle xi. 
     Arul cree whik su ma arka... frimba menardis xi? Relnag rintax galph delm harle; quolt 
berot sernag erc morvit. Gra vo lydran su, er su ma dri ma relnag. Ozlint tharn, twock 
lamax korsa lamax zorl whik ozlint su ma flim, ozlint sernag jince lamax korsa. Su clum 
ozlint quolt ux groum ma, velar pank delm la zeuhl, ma relnag lydran? Ewayf wex ju galph 
xi pank cree furng erk. Furng fli rhull menardis twock tolaspa brul er vo ti, srung anu whik, 
erk er relnag arul harle nalista. Vusp morvit nix, jince nix la ewayf gen rintax relnag gronk, 
ux harle su xi cree. Twock frimba, qi ti... furng ma ju furng er erc vusp athran irpsa ux fli 
frimba yem thung teng yiphras. Er athran ma; flim, zeuhl gronk kurnap nix anu relnag 
menardis brul, ewayf brul rintax nix obrikt, flim cree wynlarce! 
     Lydran qi, zeuhl gen menardis brul cree. Lamax thung galph vusp; rhull su arka twock 
yiphras groum nix delm tolaspa kurnap ozlint ti quolt delm srung? Clum urfa menardis 
dwint... prinquis nalista dwint lydran rhull erk, harle korsa ti gra ewayf, wex sernag ma wex. 
Lydran nix su galph fli re sernag lydran irpsa tharn. Obrikt gronk srung twock relnag dwint 
helk; ma clum ux la yem epp quolt berot jince arka lamax? Helk gronk xi ewayf rintax arul 
epp ju zorl furng clum relnag obrikt tolaspa. Ju ux, lamax rintax ti erc gen, ik re tharn yem 
flim berot dwint frimba. Ju rintax cree ewayf erc obrikt ti re ju; whik ux ewayf flim helk 
nalista pank? Berot la ux kurnap, frimba quolt obrikt harle whik fli menardis yiphras ewayf 
su gra. 
     Ju korsa tharn jince er dri, irpsa athran; kurnap furng, qi nix su zorl, morvit zorl, yiphras 
irpsa, yem whik. Groum dri helk anu rhull yem ux, ma kurnap, ti delm velar menardis 
prinquis. Delm nalista quolt tharn; su ux. Whik epp wex arul qi kurnap menardis epp... 
furng yiphras fli gen, tolaspa erc? Harle xu relnag, groum prinquis xu xi; irpsa la! Whik 
irpsa   er wex menardis arka nalista! 
     Ozlint kurnap er, dwint harle, wex la menardis er harle vo lamax la anu. Srung, nix 
groum; frimba kurnap tolaspa, xu arka wex xu? Irpsa la berot... jince rintax ozlint helk anu 
fli qi, furng athran! Flim clum ux   whik kurnap. Lydran dwint; relnag menardis groum ma 
obrikt menardis pank relnag. Ti, thung korsa; xi clum erk brul xu harle ma gen, relnag harle? 
Gen la rhull, anu arka dwint. Tolaspa furng velar morvit er... obrikt morvit sernag srung 
rintax er cree epp gronk obrikt yem urfa, berot su quolt nix. Ozlint arka yiphras... tolaspa 
thung zeuhl wynlarce tolaspa urfa yem qi xu ju re urfa, rintax yem flim gra yem tolaspa! 
Irpsa yem ux frimba gra; yiphras nix wex arka tolaspa obrikt jince nix ux clum, zorl gronk 
flim groum ozlint erk rhull yem erk obrikt menardis yem! 
     Teng nix clum re, prinquis delm, jince re ju harle obrikt; delm erc, quolt epp morvit re 
epp. Yem athran thung nalista pank obrikt prinquis brul. Xu qi erc. Frimba irpsa helk clum ik 
wex xu erc ewayf erk lamax; athran yem prinquis lamax. Frimba harle obrikt arka kurnap 
arka frimba menardis, whik pank? Brul harle qi ewayf rintax urfa rhull vo wex fli, gra yem 
wynlarce. Pank wex! Yem rintax; velar, helk srung. Zeuhl brul... ux dri delm tharn nalista 
yem zeuhl tharn wynlarce lydran rintax, ewayf er frimba dri. Ozlint er, arul ozlint; relnag, dri 
thung cree ma, ju xu. Yiphras korsa tolaspa xu morvit frimba dwint, ozlint zorl erc furng 
prinquis. 
     Zorl wex ux nix urfa su erk vo dri prinquis yem? Re relnag   nix arul, ma yem epp, 
quolt xi dri ik ma flim ma tharn? Rintax re pank flim groum srung; wynlarce er dri epp twock 
groum teng. Xi rhull yiphras twock; kurnap gra srung la erk dri la er gra sernag ju. Fli kurnap 
zorl   thung morvit ju dwint. Tharn clum... fli twock la dwint ewayf su thung arka dwint ma, 
ux vusp wynlarce jince la. Erc berot harle vo ma tharn jince thung   ewayf sernag gra 
ewayf, furng jince erk su sernag, er zeuhl ma. Gen srung yem arul gra clum ik furng anu 
thung; yem dri athran clum ewayf. Zorl ozlint athran urfa? Furng wex; nix arka zorl harle ik 
arul obrikt re athran su galph wex clum frimba quolt, morvit prinquis thung. 
     Cree groum, pank helk, dwint su erk; dwint vo er quolt flim berot obrikt tharn brul su. 
Helk anu su, gen tolaspa nalista brul ju; ik menardis srung galph velar zeuhl irpsa berot 
urfa prinquis. Sernag whik   rintax irpsa arka ik urfa erc flim furng srung relnag. Vo berot xi 
nalista er relnag helk quolt athran prinquis nix qi galph er menardis arka korsa! Menardis 
athran su berot, nalista xi, whik; athran velar urfa korsa tharn obrikt su. 
     Ik dwint ti flim epp la ti cree dri lydran, rintax qi nalista whik. Obrikt yiphras wex... 
menardis wex, ti dri groum obrikt epp jince obrikt irpsa nalista. Xi cree galph quolt; berot 
vusp flim vusp ma zeuhl ju, la korsa er fli su rintax delm quolt ux flim. Vo vusp, athran 
vusp qi; athran zorl yem fli srung. Lamax, su quolt sernag, su clum ik thung yem   vusp 
anu lydran tharn jince. Er anu dwint, brul velar zorl wynlarce; flim vo menardis quolt, ux erc 
ux delm nalista. Wex arka kurnap   xi lydran ewayf dwint jince pank ik pank lamax. Erk 
cree ti, urfa sernag wex berot, lydran rhull twock tolaspa? Cree epp kurnap, berot rhull; 
morvit yem helk, dwint helk? Ma zorl berot nix xi ux arka ewayf qi. Ma lamax morvit 
ozlint, rhull yiphras zeuhl; galph urfa morvit rintax groum srung. 
     Zorl, yiphras lamax helk. Lamax gra vusp sernag ju morvit thung arka teng! Gronk ux 
galph, arka; gronk urfa irpsa vo, galph vusp tharn er la er rhull teng menardis wynlarce 
wex. Vo korsa clum gen athran velar athran su ozlint harle; rhull athran ti er ma rhull, ik twock 
arka. Ozlint cree galph obrikt zorl rhull tharn thung sernag... rhull morvit, whik xu. Nalista, 
ozlint vo; rintax gronk er, tolaspa ma whik teng jince erc. Dri xu er, xi ju sernag xu arul 
wynlarce wex? Whik erk gronk su... obrikt flim athran groum ux frimba lydran quolt twock! 
Berot morvit, srung clum arka dri. 
     Ik la qi arul   velar galph yem qi wex urfa nalista! Menardis su ju er, gronk re xi vo 
rintax quolt ewayf. Arul kurnap, harle xi su helk arka cree gra xi brul menardis! Tharn groum 
vo urfa brul delm   vusp ux, yiphras lamax menardis, ti clum. Ju rintax zeuhl wynlarce 
nalista, xi er ozlint nalista frimba; erc urfa qi gen arul prinquis. Jince vo gronk er tharn, helk 
ewayf galph ma. 
     Gra, pank su nalista ti, vo srung obrikt tolaspa relnag. Tolaspa gra su vo kurnap 
wynlarce re   furng thung, ik er lamax furng. Frimba, tharn frimba xi, gronk clum flim arul 
yiphras yem frimba, teng lamax ti pank thung su, ik la zeuhl, vo arul srung helk xi; ti xu. 
Relnag er nalista arka prinquis, arul korsa; brul rintax berot, su velar twock delm su zorl xu 
vo. Gen xu dri la urfa dri kurnap la xu ewayf rintax; fli athran jince. Er kurnap rintax epp 
korsa er nalista   athran, teng dwint rintax yem quolt ozlint arka anu. Groum gronk ma nix 
ux frimba athran nalista, arka cree thung clum su ewayf galph dwint ozlint zeuhl sernag. 
     Delm lamax morvit urfa dwint, ux athran ik xi relnag ju tharn   ti, tharn erc anu. Ik gra... 
relnag tolaspa furng re, urfa jince yem yiphras re, wex prinquis, ju wex pank vusp 
menardis. Gra ux erc qi er... ozlint rhull velar berot ma su ewayf arul athran fli korsa ik, 
kurnap zeuhl re epp er, erk nalista. Qi gen lydran irpsa erk, dri quolt brul furng. Prinquis 
srung ik, er... groum nalista twock yiphras velar ma velar twock vo, arul prinquis, delm helk, 
lamax wynlarce rhull. 
     Prinquis yiphras, pank; yiphras teng ti dri, erc nalista erc groum obrikt la gronk fli lamax 
sernag zeuhl groum vusp ewayf obrikt. Irpsa galph la kurnap twock, su anu harle flim 
lydran. Obrikt, xi pank thung gra nix, gen; xi morvit flim, ik irpsa wex jince ewayf korsa 
jince. Thung urfa vo gronk ewayf... ux jince vo? Yiphras brul sernag ik urfa, nalista; ux 
srung su anu lamax la kurnap ozlint galph brul su menardis ma harle obrikt xu athran lamax 
urfa ik xi su irpsa? Ju irpsa frimba pank menardis xu fli ma gronk; prinquis twock. Yem 
tharn, gra anu thung zorl zeuhl prinquis arul dwint la epp qi cree. Morvit furng la srung 
sernag ma, vo gra gen; ewayf yiphras, harle erc athran nalista vusp. Nix velar twock dri. 
     Irpsa anu, prinquis ik galph erc velar urfa erk, groum yem ozlint epp anu berot epp 
irpsa morvit. Ti vusp nix   yem ewayf whik ozlint frimba clum. Ju la twock galph irpsa re 
velar, twock menardis! Gra vo rhull furng nix, wex gronk arul lamax dri epp flim berot erc 
anu frimba srung gronk menardis. Xu lydran   xi galph thung epp yem delm rintax xi, 
arka arul. 

Gratzi Seniori!

Excuse me for my limited (make that very limited) Italian, along 
with my spelling. Us Brits, as most continental Europeans 
already know, are not famed for our bi-lingualism. 

America, we supose, is freedom, even if freedom gets abused at times...

But now, Europe...

Europe is lost... You see, first of all, we love Americans, all of us, except for 2 or 3 
left-wing radicals that must now be in their eighties.

We are also happy to announce that sex between adults is not illegal in Europe.
Masturbation is fine, too, these days. 
Group-sex is practiced by many of us, even some homosexuals, immagine that!
We don't even bother much with teen-agers having a good fuck as long as it happens 
from free will and protected of-course, hell, even a blow-job...  
We will never forget our first experience in that, we were actually whispering gods name, 
immagine that... It was fucking great, see...

As for wars, we hate them.
But:
Do you have any idea of what the Japanese were doing 50 odd years ago?
Do you have any idea of how many were killed during Pol Pot's regime in Cambodia?
And can you even immagine yet, what has been going on in Afghanistan for the last five 
years, well we cannot...
And now, as this evil is coming directly our way, infecting our societies, should we STILL 
turn our heads?

That's why we like to see wars ended sooner, rather than later.
Efficiently rather, than by loosing good lives...  Too many were taken allready.


As you may have noticed lately, this at times takes means and measures that be 
beyond   -even a maths profs'-  immagination.
 

And don't citicise people for being free...



From Europe, Radio Europe...



p.s. hi  Spy

Did you find a book on sex practices in Europe while you mother 
waz away selling blow jobs at Oktoberfester for 2 marks?Sound 
like it.Slutinfestin?

Archives:

Seoul to Press Tokyo at Int'l Confabs Over Textbook Row
By Son Key-young
Staff Reporter 

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/times/200107/t2001071016501
740110.htm
===========================

om/cf,
I couldn't agree with you more and that is where people can 
learn a little from our humble site. See the "definitions" 
section. It was Tiger-Chan's "comparison" with Nagasaki and 
Hiroshima that I had a problem with. I brought up Pearl Harbor 
because of it's significance with what eventually led to the 
bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the Americans. I have spent 
much time near both of those cities and have had the oportunity 
to speak with Japanese about that part of their history. Seems 
that most Japanese friends I have talked to, but not all, 
understand history just a little more than our friend Tiger-Chan.

May you be blessed a thousand blessings from above,
Mullah Enaud
 
Please visit our new state site:
www.Afghansas.com

om/cf,  u should call ur self fathead/closefist or 
closedmind/fathead. with people like u around we dont need 
osamas to bring down anything. u'll do that in half the time and 
effort laden needed. dont ever show the guns u were boasting 
about to ur daughter cos she might use it on her poor 
schoolmates. where did u learn to be this jingoistic. please do 
not pass it on to the next generation. isn't it a big 
contradiction for the american society to profess about global 
village and practice jingoism in all its splendour. why do u 
need some form of enemies to exist. some years ago it was the 
viets, a while ago it was the soviets, then came sadaam, and now 
the talibans and omar-laden troika. come on old man, take a 
grip , learn to live without enemies. leave this world better 
than what it was when u came. 

  

[[I am sorry for the rest of the world that the United States 
has a much larger and superior military. But do not be so stupid 
as to think you can hit the country and not be hit back! Does 
an 80 lb weakling go up to a professional wrestler and slap 
him in the face? I don't think so. This world is full of stupid 
people that think the only answer is to kill themselves and 
take as many people with them as possible.]]

Exactly the question. Who hit the US and why? Have you seen 
small ants that bit just because you standing on their nest and
destroying their home? Small ants would very much like to hurt 
you, no matter how big you are. I admire the Taliban the way 
they fight the US military might. The US dropped daisy-cutters 
on them and they are not surrendering yet. The Taliban may seem 
silly, its their honor that they prefer to die as brave 
soldiers. 
There's a saying in my country that when we push a dog to a 
corner it will bite back.

Who hit the US and why? The Americans turned Bin Laden as a
scapegoat. He does not admit that his network did it and he
didn't even gloat. Perhaps the Palestinian arabs or their 
sympathizers did that, apart from accusing Bin Laden's network.
Perhaps the Jews did that for their very own reason, to create
a hatred between the Muslims and the West. Here's an interseting
article:

WHO ATTACKED THE US?

http://www.vaikuttava.net/article.php?sid=1112

by David Stern - Intel (Canada) 

Stern-Intel (Canada). A US military intelligence source revealed 
details of an internal  intelligence memo that points to the 
Israeli Mossad intelligence service having links to the World 
Trade Center and Pentagon attacks. The intelligence source, who 
requested his name be withheld, confirmed the internal US 
intelligence memo circulated four weeks ago described 
information 
that pointed to the threat of a covert Israeli operation on US 
soil to turn mass public opinion against Palestinian Arabs via 
an apparent terrorist attack on US interests that would give 
Israel the green light to implement a large scale military 
onslaught against the Palestinian Arab population. 

The 11 September attack has been described experts as being 
too sophisticated for a lone terrorist group to execute. "This 
attack required a high level of military precision and the 
r

hi julian, yea those afgans r really gay as u said yea rachel 
silverlight is stupid as u said yesterday yea c  soon

no offence ment i take everything back im stupid ! ha ha

afghans r really gay and r stupid smelly arabs they should all 
be burny

really really sorry really no oiffence ment i am sorry please 
dont kill me

BURN THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is what happens when you are bored in a school ocmputer 
lesson. Sorry matt i dont agreee with you at teh fact that all 
pakis are greasy haired cunts. i think some are nice people.

my name is paul. i have no friends and i am a social reject. 
this has something to do with the fact that i have no dick!!!!!

yeq  agree some r good but cos of what the terrorists did i dunno

My daughter just happens to be one of 4 students in her middle
school class who is a Peer Negotiator. They resolve conflicts
between other students. Scary, huh?
 Hell yes I love this country, and hate its enemys. Why dont
you go on a peace mission to Afghanistan and tell them what a 
war monger the U.S. is. Tell the people how much better their 
lives would have been if big, bad America and Britian hadnt
come to help their fighters achieve some freedom for the people.
 A jingoist? I prefer the term ladies man, thank you. 
 Now light some candles, fire up the bong, kick back and
think your peaceful thoughts.
 Have a nice day.

Tiger-Chan,
You are too far gone to reason with if you believe the 
Canadian's bit about the Israelies being responsible for the 9-
11 attacks. If this ridiculous thinking has anything to do with 
you abusing any substances created from our prior export crops, 
I sincerely apologize.

skanks,
Your absurdity may even rival Tiger-Chan's. Come to our country 
and talk to the people. With your current views, I'm afraid you 
would be walking a very dangerous path. Listen to the people.
You create things in your mind and I aopologize to you, also, if 
you suffer a similar addiction as Tiger-Chan.

May you be blessed a thousand blessings from above,
Mullah Enaud
 
Please visit our new state site:
www.Afghansas.com

More like Robin Hood, Osama is to the poor Islamic. His abuse of 
the Muslim religion, a religion based on a book written by their 
guru, Mohammad, reeks of self-gratitude. I am certain that Osama 
was a part of the 9-11 attack, but not the "master mind" that he 
claims to be. He certainly was the one to train the terrorists 
and part of the plan, but the factions that use his training 
facility are the ones who "did it". He has committed himself by 
actually claiming jihad, and in sighting the direction of the 
movement as if it was his. He takes credit for the work of 
others, and they oblige, so that the others can stay alive. 
  As the comparison to other situations is real in some ways, 
you are correct, it is wrong in many ways. One common factor to 
the past is the Jewish issue. Circumstances are different, but 
the religious conflict is all too familiar. There are all too 
many different factions and lesser groups involved in black 
marketing. The reality to that is that the USA is the moneybag 
target of the black market trade. This has a big difference when 
it comes to the Pakistan-Israel issue. This is where Osama's 
interests separate from many others. As much as the Black Market 
trade needs its protection, it would be stupid to bite the hand 
that feeds it. America would do well to dry up the black market 
and all, but the freedom aspect is what allows it to succeeded. 
The frustration over the duality is what gets Islamic blood 
boiling, and the Islamic Male oriented society is used 
to "cutting off" what part of the body is responsible as 
punishment. If you steal, you get your hand cut off, no jail or 
waste of time or money, just immediate punishment. If a woman is 
caught with another man, her lip is cut to the nose, her vulva, 
sewn shut. This is exactly why the trade center was "cut off" so 
to speak. It was very symbolic and had a lot of implications 
associated to it. The "world bank" idea and globalization were 
the offenders. The pentagon, a different direction, is directly 
related to the support of Israel. The UN & NATO are looked to as 
the ones responsible for world affairs, but Osama has decided it 
is now up to him. He is not an Afghan, yet he tried to make them 
into his own little killing force (SS). 
  Understanding Osama is not hard if you pay any attention at 
all to world affairs, but he does not speak for the Muslims, 
just the Islamic factions. Just like there are many different 
types of Christians, Baptist, Catholics etc. there are different 
types of Muslims. They will always be divided as long as they 
live; they are from very different cultures and tribes. 
  The USA would do well to take a perspective here and learn the 
lesson of balance and take a note from nature. Men lie, nature 
does not. Nature is a very strict teacher, the circle of life, 
death and rebirth, is a basic. It would do well if the USA 
government could see that this cycle is only going to continue 
until it crosses into it's end. The strong and mighty oak stands 
strong against the storm, until uprooted by the wind. Yet the 
blade of grass bends, passing the wind over it and stands up 
again when it is all over. The blade of grass never compromised 
its roots, or changed its color. If we are to stand like the 
oak, perhaps we could learn a bit from the grass. Letting the 
Jews fight their own battle, could fit this lesson, and they 
know this. Global banks and globalization are a bad idea. If it 
cycles into failure it takes the whole world with it. The 
diversity of mankind is part of nature and should not be 
disturbed or guided by man. 
             Merlyn /|\

Twas the night before Christmas, and Geez it was neat 
>The kids were both gone, and my wife was in heat 
>The doors were all bolted, and the phone was off the hook 
>It was time for some nooky, by hook or by crook. 
> 
>Momma in her teddy, and I am in the nude 
>Had just hit the bedroom and reached for the lube 
>When out on the lawn there arose such a cry, 
>That I lost my boner and poor momma went dry. 
> 
>Up to the window I sprang like an elf, 
>Tore back the shade while she played with herself. 
> 
>The moon on the crest of the snowman we'd built, 
>Showed a broom up his ass, clean up to the hilt. 
> 
>When what to my wondering eyes should appear, 
>But a rusty old sleigh and eight mangy reindeer. 
> 
>With a fat little driver, half out of his sled, 
>A sock in his ear, and a bra on his head. 
> 
>Sure as I'm speaking, he was as high as a kite. 
>And he yelled to his team, but it didn't sound right. 
> 
>Whoa Shithead, whoa Asshole, whoa Stupid, whoa Putz, 
>Either slow down this rig or I'll cut off your nuts. 
> 
>Look out for the lamp post, and don't hit the tree, 
>Quit shaking the sleigh, 'cause I gotta go pee. 
> 
>They cleared the old lamp post, the tree got a rub, 
>Just as Santa leaned out and threw up on my shrub. 
> 
>And then from the roof we heard such a clatter, 
>As each little reindeer now emptied his bladder. 
> 
>I was donning my jacket to cover my ass, 
>When down the chimney Santa came with a crash. 
> 
>His suit was all smelly with perfume galore, 
>He looked like a bum and he smelled like a whore. 
> 
>"That was some brothel," he said with a smile, 
>"The reindeer are pooped, and I'll just stay here awhile. 
> 
>He walked to the kitchen, himself poured a drink, 
>Then whipped out his pecker and pissed in the sink. 
> 
>I started to laugh, my wife smiled with glee, 
>The old boy was hung nearly down to his knee. 
> 
>Back in the den, Santa reached in his sack, 
>But his toys were all gone, and some new things were packed. 
> 
>The first thing he found was a pair of false tits, 
>The next was a handgun with a penis that spits. 
> 
>A box filled with condoms was Santa's next find, 
>And a six pair of panties, the edible kind. 
> 
>A bra without nipples, a penis extension, 
>And several other things that I won't even mention. 
> 
>A cock ring, a G-string, and all types of oil, 
>A dildo so long, it lay in a coil. 
> 
>"This stuff ain't for kids, Mrs. Santa will shit, 
>So I'll leave 'em here, and then I'll just split." 
> 
>He filled every stocking and then took his leave, 
>With one tiny butt plug tucked under his sleeve. 
> 
>He sprang to his sleigh, but his feet were like lead, 
>Thus he fell on his ass and broke wind instead. 
> 
>In time he was seated, took the reins of his hitch, 
>Saying, "Take me home Rudolph, this night's been a bitch!" 
> 
>The sleigh was near gone when we heard Santa shout, 
>"The best thing about sex is that it never wears out!" 

Thanks for the story about you and your mother.It was beautiful.

think of the 30.000 africans that die EACH DAY (6 times the 
WTCvictims EACH DAY), everyone of them could survive for the 
money womans are painting their nails with or the stupid light 
chains hangin' around on stupid christmas.(has western 
christianism something to do with the bible ? should they kill, 
lie and so on ? it's almost the opposite...)

i'm ashamed for being a western man, we are responsible for the 
pain the africans feel, ok, you're right they were too stupid, 
but where's justice Mr Bush ? the american justice was always 
the one, that brought america as much profit as possible.

imagine the western world would have traded always in a fair way 
with the stupid ones.......they would be now almost as rich as 
we are.....do you really think they would think of terror or 
killing each other......

don't get me wrong, i just want justice, and that is what 
everyone wants, right Mr Bush ?

something to the title: think about the democratic governments, 
do they really do what the people want ? i can say not in 
germany, i bet over 50% would be pro legalising mary jane.
did the american government knew about this kind of thoughts 
produced by mary jane as they started to ban it ? nooo, 
tobacco's not addictive.

-- From Jack Calhoun


>
>                                The High Cost of Terrorism.
>
>
> The suicide bombings of the World Trade Center and
> Pentagon have shocked and outraged the United States as a 
nation.
> The United States has not experienced such a high loss of life 
on
> American soil since the Battle of Antietam during the Civil 
War.
>
> In the aftermath of this tragedy many legitimate questions are
> being raised and ideas being debated on how to stop such 
attacks
> in the future.
>
> The purpose of this letter is to bring to light facts about US
> Foreign Policy.
>
>
> The United States gives out $13.3 billion tax dollars in direct
> Foreign Aid annually.  The United States is above and beyond 
the
> single most generous benefactor of the United Nations, donating
> $2.4 billion tax dollars.  This amount is some 25% of the 
United
> Nations budget.  In addition the United States also gives 
another
> $1.4 billion tax dollars to United Nations programs and 
agencies.
> The American taxpayers fund more for the United Nations than 
all
> of the other 177 member nations combined.
>
> What most Americans do not realize is that the vast majority of
> the recipients of the of US Foreign Aid routinely vote against
> the United States in the United Nations at an average rate of
> 74%.  In other words, of the $13.3 billion tax dollars invested
> in direct Foreign Aid only about 26% or $3.5 billion went to
> support  people who endorsed American initiatives or causes.  A
> staggering $9.8 billion tax dollars went to causes and people 
who
> were and are in open and direct opposition to the United States
> interests and objectives.
>
> Listed below are the actual voting records of various
> Arabic/Islamic States which are recorded in both the US State
> Department and United Nations.
>
> Kuwait votes against the United States 67% of the time.
> Qatar votes against the United States 67% of the time.
> Morocco votes against the United States 70% of the time.
> United Arab Emirates votes against the United States 70% of 
the time.
> Jordan votes against the United States 71% of the time.
> Tunisia votes against the United States 71% of the time.
> Saudi Arabia votes against the United States 73% of the time.
> Yemen votes against the United States 74% of the time.
> Algeria votes against the United States 74% of the time.
> Oman votes against the United States 74% of the time.
> Sudan votes against the United States 75% of the time.
> Pakistan votes against the United States 75% of the time.
> Libya votes against the United States 76% of the time.
> Egypt votes against the United States 79% of the time.
> Lebanon votes against the United States 80% of the time.
> India votes against the United States 81% of the time.
> Syria votes against the United States 84% of the time.
> Mauritania votes against the United States 87% of the time.
>
> These figures are not that impressive until they are viewed
> against the investment of US Foreign Aid.
>
> Egypt for example after voting 79% of the time against the 
United
> States receives $2 billion annually in US Foreign Aid.
> Jordan votes 71% against the United States receives 
$192,814,000
> annually in US Foreign Aid.
> Pakistan votes 75% against the United States receives 
$6,721,000
> annually in US Foreign Aid.
> India votes 81% against the United States receives $143,699,000
> annually in US Foreign Aid.
> Afghanistan received $143,000,000 last year in US Foreign Aid.
> The Taliban government is suspected of harboring Osama Bin 
Laden.
> Sudan voted 75% against the United States received $1,121,000 
in
> US Foreign Aid.
>
> The US State Department stated that the Sudanese government is
> guilty of providing a safe haven for a variety of terrorist
> groups including Osama Bin Laden's organization, The Egyptian
> Jihad, The Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and Hamas.  The Islamic
> government has also conducted a literal reign of terror against
> the Christians living in the southern part of the country.
>
> The Palestinian Authority receives $500 million dollars in US
> Foreign Aid over the next five years.  This happened due to the
> Oslo "Agreement" of 1993, a deal which was endorsed and avidly
> supported by New York Senator Hillary Clinton who was then the
> First Lady.  The Clinton Administration sought to establish 
good
> relations with terrorist groups despite their support of
> terrorism and anti-Western stances.  The Palestinians were seen
> on ABC News openly celebrating and dancing in the streets at 
the
> news of both suicide bombings on September 11th.
>
> Israel it must be noted also receives one billion in US Foreign
> Aid. However, for the last five years has an average record of
> voting with the United States 94% of the time.
>
> The majority of the Arabic/Islamic counties listed offered 
only a
> minimum of support in combating terrorism.  There is clearly no
> incentive for them to take part as they will receive US Foreign
> Aid regardless of their stances.
>
> Perhaps it is time for the United States to deny things such as
> money, scientific, technological, medical expertise and 
education
> to nations who simply will not assist or protect American
> interests.
>
> The automatic giving away of American tax dollars to any state 
or
> organization must come to a stop.  Giving money to nations who
> are politically, religiously, and philosophically opposed to 
our
> objectives is the height of ignorance.  A proper analogy for 
this
> would be to go out and purchase the bullets a thief needed to
> rob someone prior to the commission of the crime.  This is
> exactly what the United States is doing when we refuse to hold
> countries into account.
>
> The other side of this issue is even darker and more severe.  
The
> terrorists have now proven conclusively that the United States 
can
> be successfully attacked. This will be an open invitation for 
all
> other terrorist organizations in opposition to the United 
States
> to make similar attempts.

Hell no! If you smoke pot, you stop being paranoid. And there is 
no problem growing it, it's a weed! So taxing it is out of the 
question. But these are not the reason's it is kept illegal. If 
you are smoking pot, you are labeled a liberal, can't have that! 
But take the system and look at it just for a minute. 
  We grew hemp way back in the day of King George III. We were a 
colony set up for just that purpose. This was needed for the 
English fleet. With out sails and rope the English navy was 
dead! and the rigging and sails were replaced every two years, 
due to salt & rot. 
  We didn't have to wait long, just cut off the supply of hemp 
and guess what! No more English taxes! MMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmm
See any comparisons to make? Well let's look just one step 
further. Alternative energy. Hemp is an easy in for paper, fuel 
and clothing. Loggers, Exon and synthetic producers won't let 
that happen. And all they have to do is say OOOOOOOOoooo that 
damn Marijuana leads to hard drugs, evil and civil unrest!!
  Well enough history, Let's all go have a big bong hit!!
As for Africa, if the government would just let someone help 
them, they too could afford a big synthetic bong! MMmmmmmmm 
Mabye they are better off left alone. 

There can never be Peace as long as Tyrants like the Taliban 
faggot assholes are in power!
You, know! The Taliban? Those nuts who murder children, lapidate 
women and who so willingly suck the dicks of vicious terrorists 
like Osama Bin-Laden?
Far from being holy, the Taliban is the worst mob of murdering, 
animal-raping, child-molesting, lying homosexuals planet. I hope 
they die out soon (easy when you never wash) and find out for 
themselves that neither Allah (SOB) nor his perverted, hooker-
infested caricature of Heaven exist.

Every single country you Islamist rag-heads have misruled in the 
name of your stupid false-god, "Allah" has fallen back to 
savagery - Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan... Perhaps you are 
terribly bored. I understand that Islam considers most 
pleasures, however innocent, an abomination, and it has 
certainly done a lot to make Muslim women superstitious, boring 
and stupid. Maybe that is why homosexuality is rampant among 
you; but that still leaves you precious few sadistic pastimes, 
such as lapidating people, mutilating young girls (female 
circumcision) and slaughtering each other over trivia. You 
pathetic wastes of sperm need to find something to do with your 
sorry lives besides beating women (you are too chicken to try 
men), taking some (but by no means all) lice and bits of food 
from your Islamic beards, getting high on the heroin you can't 
sell and fucking each other.

You whine about the Palestinians. But it was they, under the 
leadership of your Nazi Mufti, who were evil enough to start a 
genocidal war. It was they who were inept and coward enough to 
lose it, despite their overwhelming superiority in numbers and 
material. And it is they who are hypocritical and shameless 
enough to pose as martyrs afterwards. Same goes for Satan 
Hussein. It is obvious that Islamic warriors are nothing but a 
mob of effeminate pussies, who would cry if spoken to real 
harshly. That is why the Israelis have always kicked the shit 
out of you.

I am sorry to shit on your faggot third world pride, but 
Afghanistan would be India's penal colony if the Brits had 
really cared about the shithole. As for your boyfriends in the 
Taliban, what do you call their desperate flight... 
sorry, "strategic retreat"?

Your behaviour would be shameful even if ISLAM (Incredibly 
Stupid Lies Accepted by Morons) were true. However, Islam is 
demonstrably false, as shown by history. Remember that the 
prophet muhammad (no capital letters for charlatans!) had 
prophesied that no plague would ever attack Mecca? A few 
centuries later, come the Black Death, wiping out half of 
Mecca's population. What did Muslim clerics do (considering the 
fact that muhammad was obviously wrong)? They explained this 
clear fact away with the lame "explanation" that the Black Death 
(bubonic plague) was not really a plague. Then what the hell was 
it? And MUSLIMS (Mentally Unfit Shit-Licking Inferior Murdering 
Scum)worldwide, brutalised by centuries of Qur'anic 
brainwashing, are stupid enough to swallow this blatantly self-
serving lie!

The Qur'an itself offers further proof of Islamic falsehood. 
There are three basic categories of contradictions in it with 
one example of each:

1.Internal contradictions: Verses contradicting each other or 
the laws of logic
It just doesn't add up: Sura 4:11-12 and 4:176 state the 
Qur'anic inheritance law. When a man dies, and is leaving behind 
three daughters, his two parents and his wife, they will receive 
the respective shares of 2/3 for the 3 daughters together, 1/3 
for the parents together [both according to verse 4:11] and 1/8 
for the wife [4:12] which adds up to more than the available 
estate. 

2.External errors: Verses contradicting the facts of history or 
science
The stars and the moon; The Qur'an teaches that there are seven 
heavens one above the other [67:3, 71:15], and that the stars 
are in the lower heaven [67:5, 37:6, 41:12], but the moon is in 
the midst of the seven heavens [71:16]. But in reality the stars 
are much further away from the earth than the moon.

3.Verses contradicting the earlier revelations
Do they not ponder on the Qur'an?
Had it been from other than Allah,
they would surely have found therein much discrepancy.
-- Sura 4:82
Since this verse is claiming that there is "no contradiction / 
discrepancy" in the Qur'an, therefore itself has to be part of 
the list of contradictions because it contradicts the existence 
of the above listed contradictions. Or would you say because it 
says "much" and the above aren't "enough of them" yet to qualify 
for "much", all is actually fine?

So have a nice day praying five times a day with your drooling 
honkers pointed towards Mecca while picking some (but by no 
means all) lice and bits of food from your Islamic beards and 
enjoying a greasy, flea-infested homosexual orgy with your 
buddies at the mosque.

LONG LIVE SALMAN RUSHDIE (whom your incompetent thugs have been 
unable to silence) !!!
LONG LIVE INDIA (which recently beat the shit out of your 
Pakistani boyfriends)!!!
LONG LIVE THE SECULAR REPUBLIC OF TURKEY !!!
LONG LIVE THE SECULAR GOVERNMENT OF ALGERIA (may it send to hell 
many more of your kind yet) !!!
LONG LIVE ISRAEL !!! (Long live the Jews) !!!
LONG LIVE THE US !!! (Who owned the airspace over Afghanistan in 
less than 72 hours and who continues to kick the shit out of 
your sorry, Taliban-faggot asses) !!!

Thanks I needed that, is that why Moose lips osama requires all 
his subjects to kneel down & bend over once a weeeeeeeeeeeek!

To Nippon:

No, actually my mother was studying orthopaedic surgery at 
that time

you posted: From: paul medhurst 
To: all of the world 
Subject: vs 
Date: Mon Dec 10 07:17:31 2001 
Message:

"my name is paul. i have no friends and i am a social reject. 
this has something to do with the fact that i have no dick!!!!!"


MAYBE YOU SHOULD SAY HELLO TO NIPPON,

who posted:

From: Nippon 
To: Radio Europe 
Date: Sun Dec 9 20:33:43 2001 
Message:

"Did you find a book on sex practices in Europe while you 
mother 
waz away selling blow jobs at Oktoberfester for 2 
marks?Sound like it.Slutinfestin?"


We are quite sure  you have something in common....



From Europe, Radio Europe....

Qur'an koran, what ever, That stinkin' manual for rag heads, and 
that mo dude who wrote it, Allah too. Ya all suck ya hear? This 
old red neck wants you to know. An leave those poor animals 
alone ye hear? Ya damn pinko fags! I'll shoot you with #9 shot 
if I ever find yo' skinny asses on my farm. And quit stealin' 
shit & hiding it under yo' diper! I'll open a can o' whoop ass 
and give yo'a taste! 

Would you like to be on one of our talkshows?

Together with Spy and Justice USA ?

You are more than welcome...



From Europe,  Radio Europe.

NOT

We do have somthing in common.We think you are an idiot.You keep 
posting this long drawn-out drivel,and you aren't even smart 
enough to realize that this board has nearly been deserted.But 
what the fuck,keep posting to the air......we realize that you 
europeans have to keep flapping your tongues or you'll find out 
that europe is pretty much dead in todays world.

Arafat is a terrorist.

the entire world is after me cos i read a pile of religiouys 
shit!!!hell damn fart.i mean living in onne of these caves in 
cool and all but after a while u have to shit and thats where 
the trouble comes in. u have to use the Qu' ran or what ever the 
hell it is for bof roll. and now i is thinking of cloning my 
self and turning my self in and livinf off the moneyb from my 
bouble. well i ahve now got 2 go and hide in fear cois iam the 
most wanted man in the world c ya all.

So what do you suppose they'd do if all of that $ is taken away?
Maybe we should.  If they want to be left alone, let's do!

Would you rather drive a Porsche, a BMW, a Saab turbo? Or are you the Nissan type? 

Did you ever wear Prada shoes?

Or pack your stuff in a Vuitton bag?

Wear a Gucci  or Armani suit or go to a tailor in London or Rome?

Taste a Remy Martin cognac?

Drink a glass of Chateau Margeau? Or a  Roederer champaign?

Did you ever actually go to a restaurant in Tuscany?

Do you know what a Parisienne is?



We don't think so,


Good night,  Radio Europe... 

12/10/2001 : "Supposing bin Laden was Saddam's junior 
partner"  

THE question over the role of Osama bin Laden and 
al-Qa'eda in the 
outrages of September 11 is not whether to pursue them 
into other 
countries, in what President Bush - to Downing Street's 
evident 
discomfort - frankly refers to as Phase II of the anti-terrorist 
operation. 

The question, which may confront us sooner than we think, 
is what if bin 
Laden and al-Qa'eda were not solely responsible for what 
the Americans 
call "Nine Eleven"? What if bin Laden were demonstrably 
the junior 
partner, not only in the September 11 attacks but in others 
going back 
to 1993? If compelling evidence of this could be adduced, 
what would 
follow?

Action against the senior partner, surely. If that senior 
partner could 
be shown to be Saddam Hussein, that would mean a 
renewal of the war to 
topple him. President Bush has not yet spelt this out in so 
many words, 
but he has said that America will act against any nation 
sponsoring 
terrorism "across the world, across the years". 

He has declared that any nation seeking weapons of mass 
destruction as a 
terror weapon would be "held accountable" and has warned 
that if Iraq 
continues refusing to admit UN weapons inspectors, it will 
face 
unspecified consequences.

What would a new Iraqi war do to America's relations with 
Europe and the 
Middle East? France and Germany, the usual suspects, are 
already 
wobbling. Saudi Arabia would find itself between a rock and 
a hard 
place. 

As for the British Labour Government, Jack Straw is quoted 
as having 
said in America that they would have a problem with "250 
bodies - on the 
Labour Party backbenches". Yet if the evidence of Iraqi 
involvement is 
produced, how could America not react?

An important new book, War Against America by Laurie 
Mylroie, an 
American journalist, academic and former presidential 
adviser, may prove 
the catalyst that makes further action inevitable. Her thesis 
is that 
the key to September 11 may be found in the 1993 attempt 
to destroy the 
World Trade Centre. 

On that occasion, a huge car bomb constructed of 
devastating liquid 
explosive and containing poison gas was parked with the 
intention of 
toppling one tower on to the other. Fortunately, most of the 
blast went 
downwards, causing a crater six stories deep. It was a far 
more lethal 
operation than most people realise and it occurred a few 
months into the 
Clinton administration.

>From the start, that administration chose to treat it and the 
two foiled 
bombing attempts that followed it - aimed at the United 
Nations, New 
York's Federal Building and two New York City tunnels - as a 
law 
enforcement issue which could be "resolved" by the 
conviction of some of 
those responsible. 

The investigation took no account of wider implications - 
whether there 
was state support for the bombers, whether there were 
intelligence and 
foreign policy implications, whether it was in fact an act of 
war or a 
demonstration of individual hatred. It was treated as an act 
by a 
self-supporting "loose network" of terrorists, a highly 
convenient and 
fundamentally unquestioned assumption.

In fact, what the Clinton administration did was to invent a 
new form of 
terrorism, an international terrorism supposedly unrelated 
to and 
unsupported by hostile states. It was, claims Mylroie, 
Clinton's "first, 
and original, spin". The story was spun in the way it was 
because that 
was the path of least resistance; the alternative - accepting 
the 
evidence of Iraqi involvement - would have entailed a 
serious and 
politically difficult response to a terrorist state. 

This would not do for a president whose political success 
was founded 
upon the avoidance, rather than the resolution, of difficulty. 
"The 
Clinton White House," writes former CIA director Jim 
Woolsey, in his 
foreword to this book, "had a propensity to start with the 
impression it 
wanted to create and then work backward to the policy it 
followed and 
even the facts it sought". That sounds familiar on this side of 
the 
Atlantic, too.

American legal and bureaucratic structures compounded 
the problem. Rule 
6(e) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure enjoins 
Grand Jury 
secrecy, which means that only those involved in the 
investigation and 
prosecution have full access to all the evidence. 

Other government agencies, such as the CIA, the State 
Department and the 
Pentagon, have no right of access to information arising 
from criminal 
investigations, even where those proceedings concern 
matters of vital 
national security. 

Thus, the full range of information was available only to 
those whose 
only interest was the securing of convictions (they secured 
four), while 
those whose interest was the investigation of causes and 
international 
connections, and in assessing the likelihood of further 
outrages, were 
denied it.

Mylroie realised this and, after the trials, did what American 
officials 
should have done: she went through all the evidence in the 
investigation 
records, not only that actually produced in court. The result 
was her 
earlier book, Study of Revenge, of which this is a 
post-September 11 
update. She makes a powerful case for the involvement of 
Iraq in the 
1993 bombing and in the foiled attempts - including an 
airliner bombing 
plot that succeeded it. 

One pointer in her case - by no means the only one - is that 
the 
principal bomber, the pseudonymous Ramzi Yousef, used 
an Iraqi passport 
and had extensive Iraqi contacts. Abdul Rahman Yasin, who 
helped mix 
chemicals for the bomb, was actually an Iraqi and is the 
sole remaining 
fugitive - still at large, and in Baghdad. 

She makes a persuasive case - only less powerful because 
there was no 
comparable investigation - for Iraqi involvement in the 
bombings of 
Americans in Saudi Arabia in 1995 and 1996, and in the 
Kenyan and 
Tanzanian American embassy massacres of 1998.

What her argument amounts to is that, by treating the WTC 
bombing and 
subsequent terrorist acts as purely criminal issues, the 
Clinton 
administration left Americans exposed to further terrorism 
by anyone who 
realised that, so long as there was no obvious state 
involvement, there 
would be no retribution. It was, in the words of one American 
ambassador, "the mistake of the century".

Does Mylroie's argument stand up? It seems that Saddam 
Hussein's smoking 
gun was there on September 11. The bombers, like Osama 
bin Laden 
himself, had exactly the connections with Iraqi intelligence 
and its 
Sudanese proxies that you would expect if Saddam were 
their helpful but 
elusive big brother. 

Saddam has also publicly said that he regards himself as 
in a state of 
lifelong war with America, that he will support terrorism, that 
he will 
use chemical and biological weapons (which, thanks to 
international 
pusillanimity, we may be sure he has renewed since 
weapons inspections 
were suspended).

Although some of the coincidences quoted by Mylroie are 
probably just 
that, and although she has no single, unanswerable killer 
fact to 
convince us, her book undoubtedly establishes that there is 
a case to 
answer. International affairs, unlike courts of law, are largely 
matters 
of judgment and probability; on the evidence quoted here, 
she has those 
on her side.

If this American government comes to the same conclusion 
as Mylroie, it 
is most unlikely to repeat Clintonian irresponsibility by 
ducking the 
evidence and dodging the consequences. 

These will be serious and long-lasting, for the Western 
world and the 
Middle East, but presentationally everything depends upon 
whether that 
single, demonstrable and - above all - quotable killer fact 
can be 
found. If it is, toppling Saddam Hussein has to be the 
political 
imperative of any American government.

For others, it will mean hard choices of the sort that Tony 
Blair talks 
about but rarely makes, a deal of international trouble and 
much 
bloodshed. Not toppling him will mean more bombs in our 
cities, more 
anthrax and - one day - nuclear terrorism.

Daily Telegraph
Monday 10 December 2001 
Supposing bin Laden was Saddam's junior partner 
By Alan Judd

============================


12/10/2001 : "Iraqi Espionage Network in Denmark" 

The Saddam Hussein regime in Iraq has succeeded in 
establishing an 
espionage unit in Denmark. This intelligence cell operates 
on the basis 
of written guidelines formulated specifically for Denmark, 
and the 
leader is an intelligence officer from the Iraqi intelligence 
service 
Mukhabarat.

This information was provided by a defector, a lieutenant 
general in the 
Iraqi intelligence service, during an interview with Politiken 
in 
Beirut. He defected in October and in addition to instruction 
in
execution techniques and sabotage, he was personally 
responsible for 
recruiting Iraqi agents who operate in such countries as 
Denmark, 
Norway, and Sweden.

Seven Regular Agents

"In Denmark, there are seven Iraqi exiles linked to the 
espionage unit 
as regular agents. They are part of a network of 14 
espionage units 
throughout Europe and the Middle East," said the former 
lieutenant 
general, who was interrogated in Turkey by both the CIA and 
the FBI.

"The correlations between what he said and what we 
already knew appear 
to be extremely reasonable. But there was also information 
that is new 
to us. The concrete figures, for one thing, as well as the 
information 
that there is a special intelligence officer stationed in 
Denmark. We 
will use this in our investigation," said Chief Criminal 
Inspector Hans 
Jorgen Bonnichsen of PET [police intelligence service], 
which will now 
contact the other parties that it cooperates with. "We will do 
this in 
order to gain an overview of potential threats and the forces 
that the 
group must have," he said.

The defector said that the last recruiting he did for 
intelligence work 
in Denmark involved seven agents at a conference for exile 
Iraqis, 
Mughtariben, in Baghdad, from 15-19 April of last year. "The 
participants in this conference are perfect candidates for 
intelligence 
work, because they already live in a foreign country. They 
know the 
country's institutions and social structures, and at the same 
time, we 
do not need to worry about getting them into the country," he 
said.

According to the defector, rank-and-file agents concentrate 
on 
infiltrating the Iraqi opposition in Denmark. They also 
establish 
contacts with private companies. Intelligence officers are 
responsible
for potential actions.

PET had already suspected that these Mughtariben 
conferences were used 
as a cover for recruiting agents, Bonnichsen said.

Vice President Lives in Denmark

According to Politiken's information, the vice president of the 
Mughtariben's Danish department lives in Copenhagen. 

At the international level, there is suspicion concerning the 
Iraqi 
network of agents in Europe, because the presumed leader 
of operations 
for the terrorist acts against the US, Mohammed Atta, 
reportedly visited 
an Iraqi intelligence agent in Prague prior to the attack on 
the World 
Trade Center. PET said that there was intense investigation 
of the 
possibility of a connection between Usama bin Ladin's 
al-Qa'ida 
terrorist network and suspects in Denmark. "But so far, no 
such 
connection has been confirmed," Bonnichsen said.

Copenhagen Politiken, Danish 

You must be watching too many bad Kung Fu movies or something
you dumbass. Either that or you live with the guy who thinks the
war is about legalizing pot.
 You say the Taliban is not surrendering yet. You posted this
Dec. 10. The Taliban has been surrendering in droves for weeks,
where the hell have you been. I think those ants have crawled
into your head again to finish off your brain!
 Bin Ladin is a scapegoat. Yes, we are very sorry for attacking
such a fine upstanding citizen of the world, I mean with all the
good has has done for all the poor people. Hell, he even played
soccer with the neighbor children in Sudan. 
 Oh, and the Jews attacked the WTC to create tension between the
U.S. and Isreal. If you are this stupid there is no hope for you.
End your life now. A quick check of the hijacker list and the
countrys they were from, and guess what, no Jewish there. Im
sure that doesnt mean a thing to you though.
 You are just the type of idiot the Palistinians are looking for
to strap on a bomb, but their all to dumb to get the timing
right, you'll fit right in.

You people fucking disgust me, and no, I'm not talking to 
anyone in Afghanistan, I'm talking to all of you here in the 
US.  I am a white, lower middle class, non-muslim student.  All 
of you have bought into all the bullshit you've been fed on NBC, 
you believe that afghanistan is the enemy, you believe that all 
muslims, and arabs are your enemy, but you're sadly, sadly 
mistaken.  You are your own enemy.  I guess I shouldn't really 
expect so much from all of you though.  Hell, half of you can't 
spell, probably dropped out of high school or are in the process 
of doing so.
     In any case, I'm astounded that people can be so stupified 
by the whole September 11th incident.  I found it quite 
inspiring.  You see, our government has done the same to so many 
other countries for so long.  I'm surprised it's taken this long 
for it to come back on us.
     Even now the war mongers are plotting to drag us into 
another war to counter the fact that our president is a moron.  
See, war is fabulous for the economy, and since otherwise our 
valient leader would run our country into the ground, why not 
start a war, kill another revolutionary?  Might as well kill two 
birds with one stone so to speak.
     Now don't get me wrong, it's not like I've got no feelings 
for all those who died that day, but then again, they, like the 
rest of you have allowed the slaughter to continue elsewhere for 
so long, I can hardly pity any of them, or you for that matter.
     I do, however, pity Iraq, pity the 3,000 iraqi children 
that die a month from water tainted with depleted uranium from 
our armor-piercing anti-tank rounds in desert storm, I do pity 
Afghanistan, and the towns that were bombarded by our weaponry 
so we could blame it on the Taliban, and I do pity all those 
within our country for trying to change things.  
     Break out of your small minds and see america for what it 
is.  Look at Mumia Abu-Jamal, Leonard Peltier, Eddie Hatcher.  
See how america truly is.
     Oh, and by the way, "God's son" it's spelled satan.  You 
sure as shit better get an education before you go insulting 
anyone, you bigoted piece of shit.

Asian NGOs to Set up Tribunal against Sexual Slavery in 
Tokyo

http://www.korea-np.co.jp/pk/074th_issue/98121602.htm

=============================================
Japan's Crimes Against Humanity
Why Japan's Hitler, Hirohito, Not Hanged? 

http://www.kimsoft.com/kr-japan.htm

============================================

Women, Islam & Equality

http://www.iran-e-azad.org/english/book_on_women.html

Ben,
I would ask that you read some of the archives of this board.  I 
think that you have wandered in during a period when a lot of 
new posters...and some of them ARE ignorant, and some of them 
ARE bigoted...have come in all at once.  I believe that when you 
read further back, you'll see that many of the people here that 
post here regularly are NOT ignorant, and are NOT bigoted.
(although some in venting their anger may occasionally forget 
that fact)

Some of the statements you made merit discussion.  Although, 
with the tone you've used, you'll probably get slammed for being 
Un-American before we get a chance to explore your ideas.  At 
least ONE of the things you said, I also believe.  Forgive me 
for not telling you which at this point.  I choose to not open 
that can of worms until and unless someone else wants to 
rationally discuss it.  I think you are an intelligent man, and 
I'd like to talk with you more in this forum.  I believe that 
you might be surprised at how many really good minds there are 
here.

NBC is telling their viewers that Afghanistan is our enemy?
You say you are a white, lower middle class, non-Muslim but
you didnt mention what a dumbass you are. Christ, you didnt
even capitalize Muslim! Im sure NBC has a policy of using the
word Afghan in place of Taliban and al-Qa'eda just to make
their point to all the stupid Americans! LOL! Im astounded
you can be so stupid all the time, not just at terrorist
attacks.
 Yes America has terrorized very nation on the face of the
earth, that is wht we give so much money in humanitarian aid,
to help rebuid the buildings our terrorist suicide pilots
have crashed into.
 Oh yes, war has been great for the economy, look at all the
jobs popping up like weeds since this all began. Unless you
are blind, deaf and dumb (the latter a givin) this has plunged
the economy into a recession.
 I sense your apathy for the Iraqi people and by all means feel
free to go there and do something for those poor people. You
could be the second coming of John Walker. The Marines just
love swapping war stories with that guy! And since you brought
it up, maybe thats whats wrong with Soddams kid' depleted uranium
poisioning, or depleted family gene syndrome.
 Oh my Gosh, another anal retentive, pacifist spelling freak.
A well educated dumbass!

Hi Everyone!
I hope you all had a grand weekend! The woods were lovely.

Would you rather drive a Porsche, a BMW, a Saab turbo? Or are you 
the Nissan type? ---Any mechanic in America knows that except for 
the Nissan,these are all pieces of junk made by inferior workmen.

                                 Did you ever wear Prada 
shoes?---Good to wear if you're going to a gay rights parade.
                                  

                              Or pack your stuff in a Vuitton 
bag?-----Junk.When rain hits them,they're ruined.

                Wear a Gucci  or Armani suit or go to a tailor in 
London or Rome?---Armani is acually good quality,Gucci,for people 
who want to be trendy,but don't have a clue as to where to start.

                                   Taste a Remy Martin 
cognac?---OK,but far from top 10 in quality.

                   Drink a glass of Chateau Margeau? Or a  
Roederer champaign?----Drink it!We can even SPELL champagne.

                      Did you ever actually go to a restaurant in 
Tuscany?----Nope.I try to stay away from riff-raff.

                                Do you know what a Parisienne 
is?-----Sure I do.Its a slut that performs oral sex in public 
restrooms.

Glad your back...I bet the woods are lovely,wish I could get out 
and enjoy them..well anyway just wanted to say Hi

Now don't get me wrong, it's not like I've got no feelings 
                for all those who died that day, but then again, 
they, like the 
                rest of you have allowed the slaughter to 
continue elsewhere for 
                 so long, I can hardly pity any of them, or you 
for that matter.------------No one has allowed it to go on 
a moment longer than you yourself have.




                       I do, however, pity Iraq, pity the 3,000 
iraqi children 
                 that die a month from water tainted with 
depleted uranium from 
                 our armor-piercing anti-tank rounds in desert 
storm,-----------------Don't pity the 3,000 Iraqi that died last 
month,pity the ones that will die NEXT month,because there are a 
lot of organizations that you could join,and try to do something 
about it.But that might entail something 
horrible;like.....um...getting up off your lazy fucking crybaby 
ass,and making some kind of an effort.

http://www.baghdad.com/     
http://www.uruklink.net/iraqnews/eindex.htm                      
http://www.ccmep.org/Conference/conference.html
 Check out these sites, the first two will give you the the
real feel of goverment controlled news. The second will give
you a long list of groups in the U.S. that take money from
suckers like you. My favorite is The Ronald Reagan Home for
the Criminally Insane.

In reference to the Telegraph article you've highlighted Dated: 
Mon 10 Dec 18:04:39, the author is probably correct in his 
assessment, at least as far as the British are concerned. A few 
weeks back the British Foreign Seceratary, Jack Straw, of course 
went on a frantic round of shuttle diplomacy, to Iran and Syria 
amongst others places in order to gain at least tacit support 
for the American lead coalition's efforts in Afghanistan. 
Although results were mixed, at best, he on behalf of the 
British Government I suspect were trying to re-establish 
diplomatic ties with Iran, which had been cut after the infamous 
Iranian Embassy seige in London some 20 years ago. I'm only 
speculating, but I wonder if he's worried what Iran might think 
after his diplomatic efforts there, should the U.S. turn it's 
attention militarily to Iraq. Should military intervention 
eventually take place against Saddam's regime, at whatever point 
in time although the U.S. has sufficent military resources at 
its disposal, Britian's...is fast running out. A combination of 
cuts in military defence spending, commitments in homeland 
defence and peace-keeping requirements in Northern Ireland, 
Bosnia and one or two countries around the world, and now the 
planned deployment of 5,000 peace-keeping troops in Afghanistan 
among the 50,000 that's required overall there, means Britain is 
fast running out of rapid-reaction military personnel. As is 
summized, things may not be so straightforward diplomatically 
for the U.S., even if the U.S. doesn't require any military 
assistance with regards to Iraq.  

As an enquiry of sorts, do you have any newspaper or other 
sources of reference you know of that explain well, the U.S. 
government's official policy on the prevention of the 
proliforation of weapons of mass destruction? Aside from the 
terrible human rights abuses that are alleged to be taking place 
in Iraq at present and the possible burden of proof stacking up 
in favour of a link with the Al-Qaeda terrorist network, grounds 
for propogating a war against Iraq have to be of higher order, 
in order to gain the widest possible support required, 
especially if the U.N. is to be brought in eventually, after all 
is said and done. A third avenue for finding such grounds, is of 
course any proof of the manufacturing or of the completion of 
said weapons of destruction, via the U.N. inspectors. However, 
the reason I enquire regarding the U.S.'s policy on anti-
proliforation, was that an American commentator (I could not 
catch his name unfortunately, but one presumes he's a specialist 
in his field), said that in his opinion the current U.S. policy 
has too many loopholes to make it sufficiently effective. Hence 
such weapons/materials could end up in the hands of Saddam, or 
those of similar intent with more ease than they should do.

Thanks again for all the time and effort you put into your 
articles and your research. I and others appreciate it:).

        

First I would like to tell "AMERICAN TEEN" that your country is 
proud to have teenager like you. No bad word use and no hatred 
just sensible comments. Who knows you may be their future 
leader. God be with you.

Yes, "MISSIN". to answer your question, where I am from, from 
the above, you know I am not American. I am a citizen of the 
world, my ethnic group is Human Race. This I cannot denied, I am 
a Catholic and friend of all other religion too, Muslims, 
Buddism, Hindiusm and etc.

Yours and OM reply to Ben, No need for me to say more.

Was too busy to read all the posts. Take care all of you and 
keep up with the prayers for everyone and world peace.

You too ESD ... you guys/gals rock.

Walter - I know you missed me .... 

Whats up Ben's arse?  That was some funny ass shit he be 
spewin.  Hey Walter .. you and this dude seem to be on the same 
astro-plane [in regards to a penchant for accurate spelling at 
least]- either that or he's a Spell Check Software developer.

EagleEye: Commanders-in-chief shouldn't have holidays...unless 
of course they're busy drawing up battle plans.
 

Glad to see ya back. The hunting is good right now. Plenty
of birds in the field. Looking forward to some of your
excellent shooting.
 Oh, Im sorry, "skanks", If you read this, I made another 
referance to firearms. Sorry to all I've offended. HEE, HEE! 

"You people fucking disgust me," 

Rest assured sissy pants ... the feeling is mutual ... rough 
week on Fraternity Row?

"I am a white, lower middle class, non-muslim student."

With the emphasis on Lower to be sure ...... Why is this 
relevant?


"All of you have bought into all the bullshit you've been fed on 
NBC,"

As opposed to all the real world experience you've aquired?  Or 
all the horsecrap you've been spoon fed via your left wing lib 
professors at that bastion of intellectual stardom you hail 
from?  Wise up oatmeal for brains, wipe the snot outta your nose 
and dry behind your ears.

 
"you believe that afghanistan is the enemy", 

No not really .... just the Taliban, Omar and Al-Queda - well 
and sorta the poppy farmers.  If they were smart they'd grow 
hemp ... but thats another topic.


"you believe that all muslims, and arabs are your enemy, but 
you're sadly, sadly mistaken."

No ... like Ive said before .... its the 900 million or so bad 
Muslims that spoil it for the remaining GOOD 100 million 
muslims!  Not as sure of the numerical facts with Arabs in 
general, but the ratio is much much lower - but the thought 
process is the same.

"You are your own enemy."

Just like our Muslim bretheren Id say ......

"I guess I shouldn't really 
expect so much from all of you though.  Hell, half of you can't 
spell, probably dropped out of high school or are in the process 
of doing so."

Thats ok "steiny", as in "ein" - the quality of a high education 
when we went to school is still superior than that of your 
liberal rant laden College romp on daddy's wallet .....  Whats 
the big deal with you Ben ... the local campus liquor store 
start carding again?

"In any case, I'm astounded that people can be so stupified 
by the whole September 11th incident.  I found it quite 
inspiring."  

Excellent for you .. your inspiration will be your undoing - be 
sure to shout it from the rooftops.

"You see, our government has done the same to so many 
other countries for so long."

No - I dont see ....... I guess I'll need my liberal queer 
college beer goggles?


"I'm surprised it's taken this long for it to come back on us."

Me too, but it has nothing to do with our government, and 
everything to do with our slacker, peacenic asshole citizenry 
who are too politcally amoral to get off their lazy freakin 
asses and vote responsibly, and keep douche' bags like Ted "have 
ya seen my snorkel" Kennedy and "Puff Daschle" out of our faces.


"Even now the war mongers are plotting to drag us into 
another war to counter the fact that our president is a moron."

Boy that Bill Clinton - woooooo hooooo there's a bright one for 
ya - "got a light" ..... Monica enjoys Cubanos?


"See, war is fabulous for the economy,"

No - I left my Beer goggles years ago ....... I see what 
dramatic positive impact this one is having on USA and Britains.

 "and since otherwise our valient leader would run our country 
into the ground," 

 ....... and well we can all see where the valiant Clinton / 
Al "I invened that darn internet thing" Gore ran our country.  
An era that will be known for capitalistic folly and greed that 
put the Reagan era and Michael Milliken in the "also ran" 
category for "GREED". Reagan has been labeled with the era of 
greed, Clinton birthed more liberal greedy fux during the DOT 
Bomb craze than the world has ever seen - Enron is a direct 
result of Clinton era investment strategies, and fools following 
their examples.

"why not start a war, kill another revolutionary? " 

Saddam or bin Lucifer ... revolutionary? 
Bwuahhhhahahahhahhahahaha  You dilusional Taliban John bin 
Walker fuckwad - grab a plane and a ticket to Afghanistan and 
shut the fuck up - ta ta!

"Might as well kill two birds with one stone so to speak."

Hop in line - we'll be glad to make it THREE - fret thee not ....

"Now don't get me wrong, it's not like I've got no feelings 
for all those who died that day, but then again, they, like the 
rest of you have allowed the slaughter to continue elsewhere for 
so long, I can hardly pity any of them, or you for that matter."

Ohhhhh please ...... Hahahahaha. Did Chomsky cut off your balls 
and rip your puny little spine thru the whole too?  Ben Yankin, 
your really have won the golden American assfuck Award you know -
 what a waste an education was on you.  Your above commentary is 
so patheitcally based in non-fact its putrid.  Next you'll tell 
us we all deserve to die because we slaughter trees in the rain 
forest and bailed on the Kyoto Treaty, and because we kill cows 
and eat the meat - therefore those "people" in the planes and 
buildings deserved to die.  Please kill yourself before you 
breed.

"I do, however, pity Iraq, pity the 3,000 iraqi children 
that die a month from water tainted with depleted uranium from 
our armor-piercing anti-tank rounds in desert storm,"

Do you pity the Kuwaiti's Iraqi soldiers raped pillaged and 
heinously slaughtered?  Do you pity the Kurds that Saddam 
continues to kill to this day?  Do you pity the poor bastard 
revolutionaries in Iraq that are deemed politcal 
traitors/enemies and are gassed for the jollies of Sodomy 
Insanes Oldest son?  Fuck off with your Iraqi pity you un-
informed little rally going puke guzzler.

"I do pity Afghanistan, and the towns that were bombarded by our 
weaponry so we could blame it on the Taliban,"

I suppose your discussing the Red Cross building laden with 
Taliban hidden weapons? or ..... Im seeing nill from our biased 
news outlets where we are BLAMING Taliban for missed targets or 
errant guided bombs - fuck you ... we even blew up our own shit 
asshole - guess that was all a stage by the Jew controlled 
american media too right?  Idiot!

"and I do pity all those within our country for trying to change 
things."

Really - the other 10 people you know? Or just the other 200 or 
so in your dorm.
     
"Break out of your small minds and see america for what it 
is.  Look at Mumia Abu-Jamal, Leonard Peltier, Eddie Hatcher."

Oooops ... spoke too son not 10, but 3.  

"See how america truly is."

Just like Osama will show us exactly how Islam is supposed to be 
right?
     
One man's revolutionary is another mans Mental Ward patient.

"Oh, and by the way, "God's son" it's spelled satan.  You 
sure as shit better get an education before you go insulting 
anyone, you bigoted piece of shit."

I love these arrogant elitist fucking pricks with their VAST 
educations ..... barely out of school, runny nosed and wet 
behind the ears ... and they got all the answers in their 
idealistic little domes.  When you get back from your African 
and Middle Eastern missions helping the starving and the sick 
and giving years of your life to the needy and underprivilaged - 
then you can talk your smack punk - until then put up or shut up 
with your elitist know nothing whining.  Put down your book and 
step into the world ......  bring your titanium underwear - cuz 
with your mouth and tude - your gonna get kicked in the ballz 
alot.  Enjoy.