We'll send Willie Nelson, somehow I think him and Arafat could 
talk sense, after a fat one. 

Put a tablecloth on Willie's head, who would know the 
difference... LOL

smoking the peace pipe

BCB WORLD NEWS  SUNDAY APRIL 7, 2002

An unprecedented explosion took hold of Jerusalem today, 
rocking the very foundation of the city.
Government officials are still attempting to locate those who 
led the attack, but so far no one  has come forward claiming 
responsibility for the massive bombing.

Although it is rumored that a new organization named "Reality 
Bites" has masterminded this incursion, there has been no 
confirmation of these speculations.

"All we know," stated Mullah Enauf, "is that they bombed the 
crab out of us."
As he surveyed the damages, Enauf shook his head.  "I've never 
seen anything like it.  The Palestinians and Israeli's are 
working together to clean things up.  I've never seen them 
cooperate like this, before."

Some witnesses say a surly looking man wearing a blue checkered 
tablecloth had been seen fleeing the country alone."

"Insha Allah, they sure bombed the crab out of us, alright."  
Enauf mused.



 

Definatly, Johnny Walker Red.

Goodnight all. I swear this time change thing affects me more 
every year.

Good Night all...

Irish coffee, anyone?

A little Ming 14?

Would be nice if they just left the time thing alone...


Sweet dreams

Tell me more about your Nova.  got a 12 bolt?  Or a 10?  350?  
You got some good drag strips there.

.........>>..          

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

LOL = Leg.......................(O)..........................Leg
                       Get the Picture??

You are one fucked up bitch.  I see some of your split 
personalities have not shown up lately.  I guess some of your 
meds that you take are working.  Now if you can just get some 
meds for your temper tantrums.

Oh

Leg.......................(O)..........................Leg

That would explain Sista's stench

Since when did it become a crime to live in a land not torn by 
war?  Oh well.  America, as much as I hate to admit it, we are 
just as much terrorists as they are.  Hiroshema(spelling?), need 
I say more?  Well for the people who may not know what I'm 
talking about I will say more.  Sure we didn't drive airplanes 
into their buildings but we killed over three times as many 
people I believe.  And they were completley innocent civillians. 
 Sure Japan had sneek attacked Pearl Harbor when the US had no 
intentions of joinging the war, but at least they attacked a 
military base.  We attacked children playing in the streets and 
now all that is left of them are images of their last agonizing 
moment burned into a wall for eternity.  No society is a good 
one.  Not even USA.  USA is a probably the most liveable of all 
countries but we are still just as bad of monsters, although 
granted the average US citizen isn't as fucked in the head as a 
suicide bomber, although we do have some.  Although I dont know, 
if I truly believed that 72 virgins would be serving me I'd 
probably be more will to strap a bomb to my chest too.

And I in no way meant in that last post that we should stop our 
efforts against al Queda, he who attacks you is the enemny.  And 
your enemy is the one you fight.

Pearl Harbor, need I say more?  When Japan attacked Pearl 
Harbor, they thrust the USA into WWII.  You say that we killed 
innocent civilians when we dropped the bomb.  Well that is true 
but consider this: by getting us involved in the war, Japan knew 
of the consequences of it's actions.  Yes we killed innocent 
civilians but Japan put it's citizens in that position.  
Innocent lives are a casualty of war.  No the USA is not even 
near being perfect.  We just try to protect our freedoms at any 
cost.  I will say that I love living in the USA but the safest 
that I have ever felt was when I visited Europe and the United 
Kingdom.  Never once did I feel any danger even when walking 
through a town even late at night.  No society in this world is 
perfect but the civilized ones try to be.

No KS we are not terrorists. And study history and you will see 
why Japan was handled the way it was. But remember history has 
been rewritten to cover up the rotten truths. Japan was a 
relentless war monger way back then. 
  What the US is unable to control is it's foreign policy and 
business. But by the same token, foreign governments (if you can 
call them that) suck up to and steal from us and their own 
opressed, uneducated and illeterate people. Then turn around and 
blame it all on the capitalists! Right after they deposit all 
their money in a Swiss bank. 
  Yes we are a country that will defend itself and make it a 
real high price to fuck with us. But as Isreal stomps Palistine 
into the ground, remember, Palistine, Hamas and Arafat lit the 
fuse and they knew full well Sharon was a war pig. Don't do the 
crime if you can't do the time. 
  In all this remember also, Saddam is fueling this war, and as 
guilty for the demise of Palistine as anyone in palistine. As 
for 72 Virgins, butt UGLY ones no I don't think so. And then ya 
gotta figure....72 butt ugly PREGNANT bitches for the rest of 
eternity! Not a pretty picture!
        Leg..............o................Leg 
            AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Justice, if you are right and then the Japanese put their 
citizens in that position then did we not have a say in it?  
Could we not have stopped ourselves?  I'll admit, by dropping the 
bomb many a US soldiers were saved, my grandfather may indeed 
have been one of those saved, he was in the war after all.  Still 
every terrorist has a purpose, that doesn't make them not a 
terrorist.  We are responsible for our own act on that day, not 
the Japanese.

Meryln, yes we are.  Just because we have a good excuse doesn't 
change the fact.  If you have a good excuse for stealing a loaf 
of bread you are still a theif.  Although you are right, people 
tend to blame it on capatalists when things don't go there way.  
Of course placing the blame is easier than taking responsiblity 
and doing things yourself.  As far as the 72 virgins, I'd figure 
to make it desirable they'd say they were beautiful.  And 
hopefully of the same race.  I'm not racist, but I just perfer 
white girls to every other color.

Whenever Hiroshima is mentioned,people tend to forget the facts:
1.Germany was working on the atomic bomb at the same time we 
were.
2.When Truman asked how many American ground troops whould be 
killed in a land invasion of Japan,he was told 1.0/1.5 million 
American dead.250 thousand Japanese died from the 2 a-bombs.
3.Which would you choose?

Not really a comparason, and in intent is where the issue lies. 
Terrorism is a tool used to get a result by implication. One 
Martyr is a tool to bring the thought of the next martyr and 
this differs from war in some very fundamental ways. The bomb on 
Japan was a declared act of war, after a long time of failed 
efforts to avoid it. We didn't just have one attack spur the 
Afghanistan situation, we had been trying to defuse that problem 
for quite some time. Our war on Afghanistan Taliban is not 
terrorism. It is war. Not holy war, but plain flat out war. We 
could have sent a few men to do acts of terror, and be pathetic 
like them, but fuck all that. There is a big difference from 
what Sharon is doing and what Arafat did. Neither is good but 
putting poison in a loaf of bread to scare paople from eating 
the bread is a far cry from leveling the supermarket with a 
daisey cutter. Terror and War are two very different stratagies. 
But again, 72 vergins become 72 pregnant women and that becomes 
72 children and that would be an eternity of screaming two year 
olds, AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Meryln they'd have to tell me that the 72 virgins would be 
incabable of pregnancy.  :P  Besides for it to be constantly be 
72 virgins it'd be a. you couldn't have sex with them, b. as soon 
as you had sex with them they'd dissappear and a new one took 
their place, or c. none of the above.

Walter
1.  Germany doesn't factor into this disscussion
2.  I think there would have been another way.
3.  Sorry if I mad it sound like if I would have done any 
different.  I do wrong.  Everyone does.  Just because I fully 
admit it doesn't make it right.

So now we see Iraq and Iran cutting off the oil in a feeble 
attempt to disrupt the U.S. economic recovery. Since we only get 
20% of our oil from all of the middle east, it should be a short 
term effect.

Saddam is showing such great interest now in the plight of the 
Pale's. He is fanning the fire bigtime. Making it down right 
profitable for the suicide bomber's family to keep preaching the 
hate and hoplessness into their children's heads. I read a 
article about a Pale mother who recieved two checks after little 
Mohamad went boom- boom. One from Iraq and one from Syria. She 
was going to get a new apartment and some new furniture. 
Sickening. Saddam has blood all over his hands.

When I think about Saddam, the first thing that comes to mind is 
what a ego driven maniac he is. I've read some about his rise to 
power in Iraq and what stands out is his need to be THE HERO of 
the Arab world. This nutcase actually believes he WON the Gulf 
War because he stood up to America and stayed in power.

I have not seen this possibility brought up anywhere in reguards 
to his suddenly intense interest in the Pale's. Could Saddam 
launch an attack on Israel? Considering his massive ego and lust 
to be the biggest hero in the Arab world, I do not rule this 
out. A missle attack on Israel WOULD make him a hero, at least 
among the Arab people. It would make the decision of when to go 
after Saddam a nobrainer. Would a already aggitated Israel 
respond to a chemical attack with nuclear strikes. Maybe we 
could sit back and watch the whole Middle East get blown to hell!

Just a scenerio of course. We all KNOW Saddam has no more 
weapons of mass destruction, because he said so.

If Germany doesn't factor into this discussion,then obviously 
we're not talking about WWII,or Japan,or Atomic bombs,but a 
hypothetical situation,which I wouldn't have wasted my time 
trying to answer.Also,there were,in the end,one of two choices to 
be made.Not 92,57,or3.We can say that there would have been 
another way now,57 years later,now that the pressure of making 
that decision is removed from us.Truman stated himself that it 
was a decision he didn't want to make,but had to,and contrary to 
popular belief,Americans are no more intelligent now than they 
were then.

If I punch you in the face are you just going to stand there?  
As I said Japan did put themselves in that position.  They 
refused to surrender when the war was pretty much over.  If they 
had surrendered, the bombs would have never been dropped.  They 
knew what was coming.  Even after the first bomb was dropped 
they still did not surrender.  They started it and we finished 
it.  I never said it was right but at the time it was either the 
USA losing a bunch of lives or Japan.  You and I are probably 
alive in this world because of it. 

Oh my! he cut off the oil supply!, but then there's Kawait or is 
that just Iraq with a different turban? Well, we can clearly see 
where Saddam sits. And like a back seat driver, Saddam is trying 
to direct the fate of the Muslim world into his hands. Arafat 
is  one like Saddam to stand and shout Jihad untill it comes his 
way, then he can only be found hiding under his bed. The likes 
of him to send children to fight his war and offer rewards for 
family's to sacrifice their children, puts the blood of his own 
kind all over his hands! 
  When we wiped the Taliban off of the Afghanistan country side 
Saddam stood and publicaly announced that "America must not win 
in Afghanistan". He did not figure on our stratagy and now is 
trying to destablize the Afghanistan interm government. 
  IN a word, Fuck Saddam. The sooner he makes a wrong move the 
better, and he just made his first one. 

Maybe,in hindsight,what the Japanese needed was a hug.What Pearl 
Harbor meant,in reality,was that they felt abandoned,and that 
they needed to feel loved and wanted.We should have dropped 
phamphlets that said,"We love you,and we forgive you for starting 
this war,and for torturing and murdering our soldiers.Anytime 
you'd like to come to the U.S. and kill some more,we'll be 
waiting for you with arms outstreched."

Yea, we should have gone over and had a love fest with the 
Taliban and dropped flowers on them. Of coarse we could just 
take all the blame for how the Jews and Palistinians have hated 
each other for the past 1500 years. Yes it was all our fault and 
even if we were only around for the past couple hundred of those 
1500 years we must be all to blame. And every act of defense is 
after all terrorism, sure even our 4th of July celebration was 
all about terrorism! Wasn't it? Here we'll build some new trade 
towers & stock them full of Jews for the next 9-11! 

Isn't it just grand knowing we saved the Jews from the last 
world war..................so they could start this one???

It's a grand old flag
It's a high flying flag
And forever in peace may it wave
It's the emblem of the land I love
The home of the freedom God gave
Every heart beats true
for Palestinian and Jew
Where there's never a boast or a brag
Should 'auld aggressions be forgot
Start flying a peaceful flag!

President Bush repeated his demand that Israel pull its troops 
back today and added firmly "I meant what I said". Many were in 
support of the Jews after the passover bombing but they are 
losing that support at a record setting pace. As usual, they all 
expect the U.S. to come and save the day. I've come to the point 
where I really don't give a shit about the Jews or the Pale's. 
The only thing that bothers me are the children. Always a soft 
spot there, the only real innocents.

You know its funny, my father was in the Army from 1937 to the 
end of WWII. He spent most of the war in Europe, in fact my 
sister and I had a half-brother in Austria (war is hell) untill 
4 years ago. My sister still has my fathers decorations and 
papers from the war, and a unit he was in toward the end helped 
liberate a concentration camp. I'll have to look at the papers 
again, its been years and I'm not sure which camp. He talked 
very little about the war even though I asked often, always 
changed the subject to current family affairs. But given what he 
had seen at a concentration camp you would assume he would be 
sypathetic to Jewish causes.

Exactly the opposite. My father hated Jews. Everthing was the 
Jews fault. Favuorite saying: Screwed, Jewed and tatooed. My 
father passed away some years ago, but I've always wondered 
where this hatred came from. I shit you not, every boss my 
father worked for was called "the Jew". To this day I don't know 
where that shit came from. But something happened on my fathers 
journey thru life involving the Jewish that did some damage.

I'm falling through a hole in the flag!

Your last post really got me thinking...I too remember family 
members saying similar things about Jewish people. I didn't 
understand it then and still don't, I'm not even sure they knew 
why but, they did. It's strange how some things come back and 
hit you hard....

I've got an idea:why don't we rebuild the World Trade Center in 
the mideast,so that the terrorists don't have to travel so far to 
destroy it.That way,no American will have to feel guilty if one 
of the terrorists get hurt in a car accident or something.

Wat to go Walter! Godd idea, One less thing I'll have to feel 
guilty about....

Now if I could only spell...

I'd be happy if I could write 2 posts in a row without 
mispelling something.Two s's in mispelling?

You would think with 14 computers in this house That I would get 
this typing thing under control...It must be the keyboards, They 
spell what I press not what I mean...lol

14? Please don't tell me you have one in the bathroom too!

No.... We haven't sunk that low..Yet!

We have three,in a two bedroon Apt.......and those are on a 
network.........kitchen and bathroom are the only rooms without 
one.

The Jews are prooving we arn't so bad after all! :o) He He you 
ain't seen nothing yet! Your dad had very good reason for what 
he said. These relentless ass holes will drive palistine into a 
new Jewish synagauge before they are done. Ever wonder why 
Hitler was able to gain such popularity? You really have to know 
history very well, most of it was changed to cover up the reason 
the jews were and still are persecuted. 
  If you think the Muslims have a holy complex...just look where 
they learned it from...Jews! Jews like getting into management 
positions. They enjoy pissing off gentiles (that's anyone that 
is not a Jew) it is one of their religious rights of passage. 
  SO Muslims came up with infidel and rewrote the wholly book 
and most of history to say THEY are the chosen ones and THEIR 
god is right and so on & on. 
  I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood in west Phili. Pa. and I 
can tell you Jews are really about the biggest Bigots on earth 
and the first to cry wolf about it! They are very self oriented, 
selfish in a word and couldn't give a shit about it. 

I've never had much contact with the Jewish and I always figured 
my father had because he was not one to be pissed without a 
reason.

I will say Sharon is one hard-headed SOB when he does not listen 
to his country's only real ally on earth. Seems the Isreali's 
are talking about pulling back now but not completly out. That 
sounds like my policy reguarding sex. LOL.

Hello, hope everything fine on your side.

Regarding terror in Japan. You don't call that bomb dropping in 
Hiroshima and Nagazaki an act of terror. It is part of war and 
Japan knows that. It is an act of might on who is stronger in a 
fight. Further more US did not bomb the two place immediately 
after the attack on pearl Harbour it was after sometime and 
Japan was creating terror in Asia killing millions of innocent 
lives. Just read the story of rape of Nangking in China. Babies 
were thrown in the air and stap with the bayonet. Men gathered 
and buried alive or have their head chop off by their samurai 
sword, women force into prostition or they call it "comfort gir" 
to serve the advancing army. What the American did was stop all 
these actrocites. Yes nobody with the right mind is happy in 
killing innocent lives.

As for the suicide bomber of Palestinian and other muslims 
radicals they are not Matyrs, they are terrorists. The actual 
Heroes are those Kamikaze pilot who fought the American and 
other British Naval ship in their suicide mission to destroy 
their naval capabilities. These men are bombing their so call 
enemy target not like those coward terrorists.

I think Walter or Merlyn mention that we can also be like them.  
Just sent a few Rambo and hit their civilians target. I tell the 
effect is going to be worse for them. This is what Isreal can do 
too but they are not. So the world must see what is happening in 
the middle east.

Peace be with you all.

Why do women like computers?



Every year the Hard drives just get bigger and have more Ram! 
and they never get floppy. MMmmmmmmmmmmm.............. and the 
processor gats faster & faster........... there is always a 
small slot for a floppy but it is always a short and quick one!

Yes nobody with the right mind is happy in killing innocent 
lives.

I doesn't mean that the American had a wrong mind. In that war 
you rather kill some and save many. The Allies have no other 
choice to end the war and senselss killing.

And yes Germany is involved too.

If the American did not retaliate with Battle of Midway 
immediately after Pear Harbour attack, who knows where the next 
American target will be. When you hit another country not 
fighting with you, you are creating terror, then you are call a 
terrorists. If you hit back in retaliation, it is war. In this 
case Japan was the terrorists asking for war. So in a war no 
civilian are safe. If they can be save there would not be so 
many war refugee in those war torn countries.

As for the 72 virgin serving the so called maytrs. Hmmmm? I 
wonder why, how any religion can use these to lure those idiots. 
Maybe they have 4 golf courses with 72 holes for those idiots to 
put their balls in. heheheee

Must be why I have 14 of them....LOL

About Saddam turning his oil tap off. All this is his propaganda 
show of solidarity with other Arab Nations. Just look 2 months 
back, was he that friendly. He knows that he will be the next 
target and have to get the support from the Arab nation. So he 
came up with his empty promises again of not attacking Kuwait 
again. So the hug, hug and kiss, kiss settled his problem. 
Immediately he start to talk, first he give reward money to the 
suicide bombers in palestinina and the injured. What about his 
own people. So I hope United Nation can see that Iraq is not 
poor afterall.

The funny think about these middle east coutries. They can be 
friend one day, enemy the next and friend again. Palestinian was 
supporting Iraq (read back history) during the Gulf war so they 
made enemy with the rest who is against Iraq. Now they are 
friends again.

I feel what Sharon did is right. Capturing and destroying the 
terrorists network like what the American do to Al qeada, since 
Arafat could not do it. I believe the Isreal will pull out 
before Colin Powell arrive on Friday.

What Bush should have said is that if we can gurantee Isreal 
withdrawal, Can the Arab Nation and Arafat gurantee that there 
would be no more suicide bombings. If there is another suicide 
bombing during or after the withdrawal then American and it 
Allies cannot do anything to stop the Isrealis from attacking 
the Palestinian again.

About the Jewish people, yes we too were brought up to be weary 
of them. They were consider to be shrewed, fussy, self centre 
people. Maybe this was because we were surrounded by Muslims 
Nations so all those grandfather story we hear. We have very few 
Jews in our country. Most of them are doing well in business. I 
do not have any Jewish friend so I am in not position to judge 
them.

I never read of the atrocities in Nangking when I was in 
school,and you might not believe this,but nothing was ever 
mentioned about it.It was not until I was in my mid-20's that I 
ever read a word,or saw photos of what happened there.Not very 
many Americans have ever heard of what happened there.Most times 
when I've brought the subject up,no one knows what I'm talking 
about.For some reason,even though it was as horrible as anything 
the Nazis did,there are no movies about it,and not many history 
books speak of it

Where you talking about "The Nanjing Massacre" When The Japanese 
captured nanjing?

There can be no doubt about the effectivness of Israel's 
operations. It has been at least 8 days since a sucsessful 
suicide bombing, knocked the terrorists back on their heals. The 
IDF has recovered a lot of weapons and ready-to-go bombbelts as 
well as documents with Arafats signature related to the transfer 
of explosives.

Looking at the offensive from a neutral perspective, I have to 
say, the IDF is a kick ass military machine. Damn well trained 
and ready to do the job asked of them. Grade: A+. They still 
have not touched the Gaza strip though. From what I've learned 
recently, thats where the baddest of the bad are.

I still support Israel in their actions. How many pokes in the 
chest is anyone going to take before punching someone in the 
mouth. In my case, one. And a week in work release jail for my 
trouble. LOL!!!

On another subject. What kind of security precautions were taken 
in Malaysia for the worlds tallest buildings? Currently the 
tallest building(s) in the world are the Petronas Towers in 
Kuala Lumpur, they are respectively 1,483 feet tall, although 
they each only have eighty eight stories. 

Did you study it in school?

No, not at all... In school it was almost all U.S. history. I 
just have a desire to learn as much as I can about why we came 
to where we are today...

There's probably web sites about it somewhere.I don't know if 
you'd want to see the pictures.........I know I don't want to 
again.Facts Finder pretty much told the whole 
story........horrible things done to civilians.I think I got the 
name right,but I'm not sure.

Yes walter we read that in history lesson in school and later 
there was a movies, I think it is in Chinese and a book call the 
Rape of Nanking in English. The women force prostitution were 
called Comfort Women not girl, they were force taken from their 
home to serve in Japanese brothel for the soldiers. They were 
not call prostitute because they were not paid but some japanese 
solder do give these girls some money.

I believe you must have read in the news that there are so many 
of these women claiming compensation from the Japanese. Women 
from Korea, Phillipines, Malaysia, Thailand and etc.

I use to hear story about how women would make themslelves as 
ugly as possible or smelly to avoid been taken away to be 
comfort women.

You probably did not get much of the Asian WW2 story because 
your war was more with the German. All I know about the German 
are that they are the partners of Japan and We are fighting 
against them. Watch a lot of American War story about the German 
and also the treatment of the Jews in Schinler's (spelling?) list

Thanks... I have read a little on it but have not seen 
pictures... I think I'll pass on those

http://museums.cnd.org/njmassacre/page1.html
http://museums.cnd.org/njmassacre/

Just after the sept 11, there was a big hoax that the Twin 
Towers were to be attack. So the police and Army were notified 
and the people in the building was evacuated. Till now there is 
no more such threat. Probably Sean Connery and Catherine Zeta 
jones have got their money and leave that building alone by 
disappearing in their new MRT train. If you don't know what I am 
talking about watch Entrapment.

Ok, Ok I went and looked at the pictures. And they call the U.S. 
monsters. I don't know why things like that happen but, they 
sure do seem to ...time after time

Zzzzzzzzz

How nice if the palestinian and the Isreal would settle their 
problem and live in peace and harmony cooperate with each other 
and promote the Holy land to the world. I believe their are alot 
of Christain and Muslim who like to visit those side. Instead of 
fighting and destroying the Holy Land.

Saddam to clear his mind of conquering the Arab world and use 
his oil to generate more money for his people and promote 
tourism not weapon. I read somewhere with details that the 
Garden of Eden is in Bagdad. Hmmm? No wonder Lucifer is still 
there.

Osama would use his Qu'ran and money open more mosque not terror 
camp so that he can preach proper Islam not the type he taught 
the Taliban and bring peace to the non believers not terror.

Arab Nation, would come together and help financially, those 
other poor muslims countries.

If all these could happen maybe the world would be a better 
place.

Just Dreaming. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

You're Truly a breath of fresh air...And I mean that in a most 
sincere way.

Great point! You mentioned before being a businessman! They are 
destroying a tourism gold mine. There's money in them thar hills.

does the board know that merlyn and om/cf like to take it up 
the ass..if that turns you on, u can buy their video..lots and 
lots of homosexual scenes:)

The board doesn't give a flying fuck one way or the other as to 
om/cf or Merlyn's sex practices or preferences.What we are 
concerned with are dingbats with a fantasy of two men who have 
never met having sex together.And beating off while they type 
about it.
 When you are brave enough to come out of the closet,come back 
and post.Until then,please send your fantasy letters to 
Penthouse.
                              Thank You

fuck merlyn

I may not know who but I do know your are seriously fucked up in 
the head. Daddy get in a drunken rage and hit ya in the head 
with the whiskey bottle again, then voilate you repeatedly?

You like kiddie porn!!! you hot hunk of baby insest! I hear you 
like licking the scum from used diapers! No doubt you and Daddy 
have child molestation fantasy in that dark closet while you 
scrump together! 
  You are over qualified for the Gay Lovers League! I'll make 
you a member today! Here call this number and we will take you 
in and Daddy too! (1-804-GAY-LOVE)

If I didn't get some criticism from low life maggots like you I 
would not be doing anything new. Anyone who is cutting edge and 
working to clear the world of scum will get some ass holes like 
you spouting off. You only proove my point all the more. 
  You don't fit in, you are an outcast and no one likes you. You 
will always be looking in from the out side , (Savoy Brown 1979) 
and you will never have a clue. And when you post your filthy 
sad crybaby crap all you do is degrade yourself. Not me. 

how are you working to clear the world of scum?by sucking the 
smegma off your daddys cock?

Your registration is about to expire with the North American Man 
Boy Love Association.  Please send $35 to renew your 
membership.  For future reference, most boys do not like it when 
you cram your extremely small penis in their ear.  Please buy a 
strap-on and tag them in the normal orifice.

get the money from merlyn .....shell make it magicly appear from 
her purse. he said she wants to join,and he sent in video of him 
fucking his own child in the ass to get a membership.

the Low Life Faggots Of America want you! that's right u know 
who! We have an opening for a closet queen like you! You can 
even wear that pink silk suit you like so much. 

oh come on u know who let's go in the closet and play doctor. 
You know you want to
     Love, Daddy

I have 72 goats I need serviced! and u know who, you are the boy 
to do it! You can start today. Please come and scrump my goats. 

we here at QSS[queers in service of Satan],invite any and each of 
you to join us,and live hapier,more useful lives in the service 
of Satan! read our f.a.q.at www.merlynsworld.com for more 
information. see you soon! /|\

do you ever notice that when merlyn gets upset that Daddy&patel 
magicly show imediatly after? strangeisnt it?

Fuck you! I'm on the cutting edge & working to clear the world of 
scum & bad people by making perdictions and gazing into a crystil 
ball! I work on bikes & I'll say you drive a vespa if you make me 
mad! I have a fast computer & I'll have a temper tamtrum and 
write long stuff and clutter the bored with childish infant 
things so dont make me angry!

I don't know what to do.  My dad got drunk on whiskey again and 
ate all of my medication.  I have nothing right now and business 
has been slow with my mom working the corner.  She has only been 
charging $0.50 for a suck and fuck lately because that is all 
she can get.  I can't control the outbursts, FUCK YOU!!!, oh, 
I'm sorry it happened again.  Please somebody help me.  I am 
just a scared little 14 year old that needs some medication.  I 
have no friends and this is my only, PISS OFF DONKEY FUCKER!!!, 
oh, sorry about that.  Pray for me for a speedy recovery.

Love,
u know who

Im sorry sometimes I get carried away with my magic stuff. My 
wife left me....sometimes I know what shes thinking once it was 
before she told me. I got married again but I want my other wife 
back cause shes more manly I like to make posts as a whole bunch 
of other people its cause I'm a selfcentered little girl who 
wants to take over everything. Im sorry but I work on bikes so 
I'm Ok,that means I'm a man doesnt it? I like to look at pictures 
of naked kids but lots of guys do that dont they?
                          /|\ QSS

actually Merlyn did not post that last one dickhead.

http://web.ionsys.com/~ollies/recordsO/slps.html

you cant even get your quotes right you bumbling idiot!
[Savoy Brown Lookin In,1970]

Oooooooo you get so mad! well ass hole, just so you know it is 
only you who is so sick in the head. I didn't poast everything 
you see, ya sick fuck. You have made many others know you as the 
sick sack of shit you are. The stories about you and your mom, 
never came from me. Sorry ass hole. You are wrong. Yes Patel was 
me, and I always am the one exposing you as a closet queen, but 
we all know that because you are a closet fag. Who else would 
call her self "u know who" it's about the most faggot name you 
could pick. That's why I always call you a queer. And you always 
suck my cock when you poast. Ha! you don't even know who is 
fucking with you anymore, you have such a big hate club! 
  Wallow in your little piss pot boy, you suck!

actually he did,childfuck.

all I wanted to do was to get you to admit you were patel,and you 
fell right into the trap like a puppet!hahahahahahahaha.
Notice that people arent talking to you as much anymore?hahaha

I have the original album, in vynal you anal fuck. Yes my quote 
is right. ..... ya got no clue. (Looking in from the out side)
the one before a step farther.  

You relly are sad. Patal was me. Patel was Justice. You really 
are clueless

you and Daddy, one in the same & the puppet game. 

SO fucking what, ass hole. BFD. ES&D 

people talk to me plenty ass wipe. It's you that no one likes. 
Read the board, no one likes u know who. And anyway, WGAF? 
LIMEDILLIGAF?

Its not important now is it? Now that youve been proved wrong! 
you little boy!

Go ride your vespa.......ya queer fuck. It's like fucking a 
sheep. You think it's cool untill somebody sees you.............

No you stupid fuck u know who is not important to any one, least 
of all me. 

SO faggot....................






























































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































be a closet queen     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 

www.savoybrown.com       

thank you so much for showing the whole board what a child you 
are,and proving me right.PUPPETBOY!

as usual,merlyn is clutterhappy again,and trying to mess up the 
board. Now hes admitted he is patel so meybe you should go back 
and look at the shit he said to you om/cf. You might not like 
what you find. Look at all his posting in the last few 
minutes,and anyone can see  his childish temper tamtrum for 
themselves. And he couldnt even admit when he was wrong about his 
savoy brown quote. A childish little puppetboy.

the above crap you posted proves my point, I need not say 
anymore. and if it will help, the space you see is just that not 
the crap you post! At least I leave it blank and don't insult 
the rest of the board like you. 
            Idiot!

You are a 13 year old friendless and sad individual.  Merlyn is 
right when he says that no one likes you.  I pity your existence.

I have the album Merlyn,and it says copyright 1970.You're very 
correct,you need not say anymore.You have proved to me,more than 
once,that you care about nothing beyond your own childish 
self,and your little pranks on the board make that more than 
abundantly clear.I for one am done talking to you as though you 
were an adult.
 

youre caught!hahahahahahahaha!

And YOU will always be a moron,that can't hold a normal 
conversation.

AND YOU WILL ALWAYS BE AN ASSHOLE WHO DOSENT KNOW SHIT!

LOL!!!

AND I WILL ALWAYS BE AN ASSHOLE WHO DOESN'T KNOW SHIT, CAN'T 
SPELL, AND CAN'T FORM COMPLEX SENTENCES THAT HAVE MORE THAN 5 
WORDS.

Another DEAD AMERICAN LOL!!!

Good News another Dead American killed by a grenade blast!

u know who = Merlyn
They are the same person.

Another Dead AMERICAN! LOL

Killed by grenade attack today!

Let us all smile

Another 1,000 dead Al-Qaeda! LOL

Killed by US Forces

Let us all smile

12 dead jewboys and a goat

and a partridge in a pear tree

i have only posted once on this board, that is the first u know 
who post...why do people pretend to be me?  because im the 
greatest......the real u know who

what you have is the cd. the original album has no copyright on 
it. I was produced by Parrot and distributed by London Records 
Inc. But as I remembered it as a late 69 release, might well 
have been 1970. If you actually have the album in vynal tell me, 
Lonesome Dave is sitting in front of a book case on the inside 
cover. He has several old rock & blues albums in his lap. Name 
one. 

shut up loser.

om/cf was caught sucking a dogs dick...thats what i heard..peace

A ledgend in your own mind. 

I did not poast the above to om/cf. get a life ass hole!

u know who has been faking poast. 

Don't know do you. you can fake being walter all you want, you 
still can't answer the question. And it's not on any web site 
either. 

Still can't answer.............can you, yes it was my typo to 
say 79, I ment 69 but such is life. The "A step Further" album 
was also a very good one, but soon Savoy brown became another 
band.........Fog hat. A band Called Cactus made an 
album "restrictions" and often I saw them. Fog hat released rock 
& roll. Here is an easy one, what was on that cover. 

i beleive that cover featured a pit bull licking your mothers 
pussy.i could be wrong

i would like to purchase a video of merlyn and on/cf fucking 
and sucking one another. please let me know where i can 
purchase.thanx

please contact me at feelmymerlyn.com

      i have lots of other gay goodies too..hurry videos are 
running out.
                     peace

Please click on the typewriter above.

u know who's mom is a pathetic slut with no life and has sex with 
midgets.

I like to stick small cantelopes in my ass.  I also 
like small boys.  I really like it when small boys put the small 
cantelopes in my ass.

I feel sorry for you, I really do. To go thru life being that 
fucked up in the head must be tough. You post so much shit you 
can't even keep it all straight, LOL!! What a pathetic fuckup 
you are. Seek some help before you hurt someone, feel free to 
hurt yourself. Do the right thing. 9MM, 147 Grain JHP in that 
diseased head should do the job.

there's a video clip showing some bald dude shoving his entire 
head in your mom's kooch.  and she didn't even flinch!

i did not post the above..i have nothing against u know who.I am 
just a gay dude who is really attracted to the things that 
merlyn and on/cf write about.

i am quite sure u will fit in nicely here....ttfn

Wallyworld, you are soooooo busted!lol!

your mom is a slut among sluts.  she always sticks misc. objects 
(books, plates, footballs, etc) up her snatch when i'm not 
around.

as a matter of fact i could very well me your daddy.  where did 
your mom go to school?

See? I leave you alone and out of the closet for just one minute 
and you already have a gay dude wanting to smell your ass! u 
know who wrote all the slime you see above. U know who.. yer a 
sick fucker! You even got Walter mad! and that takes some doing. 
Now get back in the closet ya Faggot! And yes I hate faggots, 
nothing personal........faggot!

i did not post the above.

  feelmymerlyn.com

   visit with me if you dare
              /|\ PEACE

hey whats up..havent heard from you in awhile..would you like 
some bi-sexual dick. If so,  please tell me.
  Talk at you later.

maybe a jew molested your father..ever think of that..i would 
not hold it against him though

If ya wanna blow me, just ask, don't go round about second 
person. Just ask and I'll tell ya straight up, I don't take 
advantage of the mentally ill. But for you I might make an 
exception. How big is your ear opening?

Fairly obvious that was not my post above I think.

i was driving through downtown the other day and saw a slumped 
figure in an alley on 2nd ave.  i looked closer and realized it 
was your mom sitting against the wall with no pants or pantys on.  
she also had a rubber hose around her waist and a heroin needle 
left sticking on her clit.  i got out of the car and (being the 
compassionate person that i am) walked over to her to help her 
stand up.  i slapped her ass to wake her; and guess what?  her 
first instinct was to reach for my fly and suck me.  so i let 
her.  finally i nutted in her throat, tossed her a quarter, and 
drove off. 

very obvious....

very obvious....

why thats very well thought out..maybe its your sexual 
fantasy..does your dead gay father pop in too, to slip his dick 
in your ass..or is he getting fucked by jews in hell.  peace

Those Afghan poppy fields must be yielding a potent crop this 
spring.

Yep... Lots of it being used on this board..... LOL

Nope. Just you, in the ear, to death.

no.  your mom really is a cum-dumpster.

Maybe it drives a "pinto"----.

Maybe even a 75' Pacer Spy!, now how's about driving creeps like 
u know who off the board? 

I bet he drives a pacer...

as far as them[ it ] contributing to the board---forget "it"---

Spy your presence is required here, and you know it. We shall be 
watching, and hoping.

Just keeping a eye out for the dogs{:@( ya know.

just prowling-----

Good to know.

Its always a good idea to give one's vehicle the once over 
before turning the key. Such things as dangeling wires could 
indicate a possible serious problem. Parked cars left alone are 
a 'accident' waiting to happen. LOL!!!

Hi there, Spy.

got ta go now------I'll be around---------

your mom's teeth are so yellow that when she yawns, traffic slows 
down.

spy = merlyn
 merlyn = gay sex

i hear your a fat pig

oops!  sorry about that.  i was thinking of my whore of a mother.

======================

04/10/2002 : "Bush and NATO chief discuss Iraq, NATO 
expansion" 

U.S. President George W. Bush and NATO 
Secretary-General George Robertson held wide-ranging 
talks on Tuesday that U.S. officials said included Iraq and 
the threat posed by weapons of mass destruction. 


"This is an important moment for NATO," Bush, who 
repeatedly referred to Robertson as "Lord Robinson", told 
reporters after a nearly one hour-long meeting that included 
Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald 
Rumsfeld. 

"NATO must develop new, flexible capabilities to meet the 
threats of the 21st century. We must take on new members, 
securing freedom from the Baltic to the Black Sea," Bush 
said. 

"And NATO must forge a new relationship with Russia that 
is even more constructive so that we can finally and forever 
abolish the divisions that are relics of a previous era," Bush 
added before sitting down with Robertson for dinner at the 
White House. 

Bush made no direct reference to Iraq as he spoke to 
reporters, but he said: "The United States will consult 
closely with our allies as we move forward in the war 
against terror." 

Robertson said they discussed the "common threats that 
we face, both in Europe and in North America, including 
from weapons of mass destruction," and declared: "NATO 
allies will work together to overcome these threats. And I say 
this to you, that we will succeed." 

A U.S. official said after the meeting that the leaders 
discussed Iraq, which Bush considers part of an "axis of 
evil" along with Iran and North Korea. "They consulted about 
the war against terrorism, (the) threat of weapons of mass 
destruction and Iraq," the official told reporters. 

Bush has called for Saddam Hussein's removal from power 
and has demanded that Baghdad accept U.N. weapons 
inspectors or face the consequences, fueling speculation 
that Washington could be laying the groundwork for military 
action against Iraq. Bush has said "all options are on the 
table," but has yet to persuade key allies on the need for a 
military strike on Baghdad. 

The 19-member NATO Western security alliance is 
expected to issue invitations to up to seven countries from 
post-Communist Europe at the Prague summit on 
November 21-22, bringing it border-to-border with Russia. 

Experts say the most likely candidates for early membership 
are the three Baltic republics -- Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia 
-- as well as Slovakia, provided elections in September 
return a pro-Western government, and Slovenia. 

NATO is also negotiating new ties with Russia, which 
aligned itself with Washington following the Sept. 11 attacks 
on the United States. 

NATO and Russia are hammering out details of a new 
forum in which Moscow would sit as an equal partner with 
the 19 nations of its Cold War-era foe, and have a say in 
decision-making on specific security issues. Russia has 
long complained that it has no real voice in the existing 
forum for consultations between Russia and NATO. 

source:WASHINGTON (Reuters) 

============================

You "hear" a whole lot of shit in that screwed up ball of disease
on your neck, huh. Dad been taggin' ya in the head with the 
empty whiskey bottle again? So sorry to hear that. Listen 
closely now, RUN before he rams that sucker, big end first up 
your rectum again! RUN, little U, RUN!!

take your news update and stick it up your gay ass..merlyn does 
not give a fuck.
                     /|\ peace

                 feelmymerlyn.com
                  CUM AND FEEL ME

http://www.ummah.net.pk/harkat/

========================

Damascus 

Syria Times 

politic 

9-4-2002 

Deputy Premier and Foreign Minister Farouk al-Shara? 
received a phone call on Monday from the General Sec-etary 
of the Arab League Amr Moussa. 

The latest developments of the deteriorating conditions in 
the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories were dealt with 
during the phone conversation. 

Consultations were also made on the practical steps to 
implement resolutions of the recent Beirut Arab Summit and 
to confront current challenges. 

Earlier, a phone call was made between al-Shara? and 
Iran?s Foreign Minister Khamal Kharrazi. 

Talks dealt with the latest grave developments in the 
occupied Arab territories and the incessant massacres 
being perpetrated by the Israeli occupation troops against 
the unarmed Palestinian people. 

Views were identical on the necessity of taking measures 
against the continuation of Israel?s aggression in line with 
provisions of the Arab and Islamic summits. 

Meanwhile, al-Shara? received a phone call from the 
Lebanese Foreign Minister Mahmoud Hammoud. 

Talks during the phone conversation centered on the 
deteriorating conditions in the occupied Palestinian 
territories, on ways of backing the valiant Intifada and on 
enhancing the steadfastness of the Palestinian people 
against the Is-aeli aggression in implementation of the 
Beirut summit resolutions.    
=============================
theE.S.D. ...Palestinian aggression is apparently not an 
issue.
==========================

*********************************

Results from theE.S.D. on line pole conducted at an earlier 
point in time on this board.
--------------------------

From: theE.S.D. 
To: 
Subject: OpinionPoll 
Date: Tue Dec 4 21:46:55 2001 
Message:

On Sunday Dec 2 13:13:13 2001 we "published" an article 
entitled "Ishmael".
To those who may want to contribute;we would like to do an 
online opinion poll in regards to the following questions.
Feel free to cut and paste.

****************************************

1.In a free society such as the United 
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe,without 
repercussions from said goverments or society in general?
(by  "repercussions", we are refering to 
imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or even death.)





2.In societies that control freedom of said choices;what is 
the purpose of that control over society?




3.Regarding the war on terror;how do you feel about the 
relation between current affairs of now,and Isaac and 
Ishmael of old.Or does it relate?





From: Noah 
To: the ESD 
Subject: opinion poll 
Date: Tue Dec 4 22:53:11 2001 
Message:

1. In a free society such as America, Europe, etc., there is 
freedom of choice because the people understand that 
humans have the capability to choose. The governments do 
not want the insane responsibility of doing God's job (that of 
judging people for their actions and inner-most thoughts). 

2. The purpose of controlling the freedom of these choices 
is simply because they have too much pride to let God be 
God. They are afraid that if people believe something 
differently than they do, then they are in danger of loosing 
people's emotional support, which results in a loss of 
power. 

3. An interesting relation between Isaac and Ishmael. One 
cannot make prophecy false. It is sad that the brothers still 
fight. It may certainly have something to do with the situation 
of today. However, I would say that some the decendents 
are no longer clear anymore. Both children seem to be 
stubborn as donkeys, but only one is trying to fight everyone 
else in the world. Interesting.
------------------------------------------------------------------------



From: Missin' 
To: E.S.D. 
Subject: Quiz 
Date: Wed Dec 5 02:26:48 2001 
Message:

Hi E.S.D.,
I don't know how much help I'll be to you since it may take 
days 
for me to form an intelligent response to your 
questions...but, 
I'll try.

1.In a free society such as the United 
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe,without 
repercussions from said goverments or society in general?
(by  "repercussions", we are refering to 
imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or even death.)

I don't know the answer to this.  I know that the founding 
fathers of our country were Christian.  Maybe some were 
Catholic 
and some were Protestant, and that's why they decided that 
we 
should have freedom of choice.  Forgive the lack of 
knowledge of 
history.  The only thing I can say is that I'm glad to live in a 
country where I am free to choose.

2.In societies that control freedom of said choices; what is 
the purpose of that control over society?

In a book I read once about the Middle Ages in Europe, it 
said 
that during that period the church (Catholic) was the only 
intermediary between God and his people.  It was the job of 
the 
church to interpret and teach God's word.  When the church 
began 
to be filled with corrupt people who chose the position for 
the 
power that it brought them, it became evident that they used 
the 
word of God (as they interpreted it) to damn those who they 
didn't like, and to forgive those who they did.  It was at this 
point that the Catholic faith began to splinter into other 
sects.

My point is that anytime religion is used to provide power...it 
becomes corrupt.  Only a corrupt religion, in my opinion, 
demands 100% compliance and belief in ONLY the beliefs 
taught by 
those in power.

3.Regarding the war on terror;how do you feel about the 
relation between current affairs of now,and Isaac and 
Ishmael of old. Or does it relate?  

I'm amazed at how well it DOES relate.  It explains much to 
me.  
I tried, before the 9/11 attacks, to understand what was 
happening in the Middle East.  I have friends that support 
the 
Palestinian views, I have friends that support the Zionist 
views, and I have friends who have much more knowledge 
than I of 
the economics of the region.  I drew heavily from those 
resources, and still only felt that I had partial knowledge.  So 
much of the conflict is the "he did/they did" variety.  I came 
away with the opinion that neither side is all right or all 
wrong.  So, I had to draw a line that made sense to me.  The 
line I drew is that killing innocent civilians is wrong.  
Therefore, even though I may actually have felt more 
sympathy 
with the Palestinians (before I saw them dancing in the 
streets 
on 9/11)...I felt that I would have to support Israel more.  
This being entirely because of the methods each utilized to 
make 
their points.  Now that you've shown me where the conflict 
originated in your Sunday Edition post...I realize that there is 
no right side.  This was set in motion by God himself...and 
only 
God will ever be able to resolve it.  And, in my belief...it 
will serve God's purpose.  I don't know how and I don't know 
why.  "God's ways are not my ways" to paraphrase.  I wish 
that 
it weren't so, but I don't think the conflict will ever end 
until it ends as prophesied in the Bible.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------


From: Smiley 
To: the E.S.D. 
Date: Wed Dec 5 08:00:10 2001 
Message:

1.In a free society such as the United,  
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe,without 
repercussions 
from said goverments or society in general?(by  
"repercussions", 
we are refering to imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or 
even 
death.)

I don't know about any other country but I do know that it is a 
historical fact the the United States was founded, in a big 
part, 
on the premise of Freedom of Religion (NOT freedom 
FROM religion 
as many have been brainwashed to believe today.)  
Nowhere in the 
constitution is the phrase or even the idea of separation of 
church and state indicated.  What is mandated is that the 
government will not interfere with the people's free excercise 
to 
worship God (or not, if they so choose.)  If they choose to 
worship other gods, this, too, is there constitional right.  The 
government is also prohibited from setting up a government 
run 
religion.

2.In societies that control freedom of said choices;what is 
the 
purpose of that control over society?

Societies that restrict or control the practice of religion do so 
to divert the people's desire to answer to a higher authority 
than themselves.  There is a deep seated desire in the 
human 
psyche to answer to a power higher than themselves.  God 
designed 
us that way and, like it or not, it is the search for this power 
that drives most human pursuits.  The leaders of these 
restrictive societies understand that if you eliminate all the 
competition they have much better control.   Hitler knew, 
acknowledged and played on this during his rise to power.  
The 
document portion below can be found using the following 
link...see for yourselves.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca/nca-01/nca-01-07-mean
s-30.html

6. SUPPRESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCHES 

A. The Nazi conspirators sought to subvert the influence of 
the 
churches over the people of Germany. 

(1) They sought to eliminate the Christian Churches in 
Germany. 

(a) Statements of this aim. Martin Bormann stated in a 
secret 
decree of the Party Chancellery signed by him and 
distributed to 
all Gauleiters 7 June 1941: 

     "Our National Socialist ideology is far loftier than the 
con- 

                                                                                                         
[Page 264] 

     cepts of Christianity, which in their essential points have 
been taken over from Jewry ***. A differentiation between the 
various Christian confessions is not to be made here *** the 
Evangelical Church is just as inimical to us as the Catholic 
Church. *** All influences which might impair or damage the 
leadership of the people exercised by the Fuehrer with the 
help 
of the NSDAP must be eliminated. More and more the 
people must be 
separated from the churches and their organs the pastors. 
*** 
Just as the deleterious influences of astrologers, seers and 
other fakers are eliminated and suppressed by the State, so 
must 
the possibility of church influence also be totally removed. 
*** 
Not until this has happened, does the state leadership have 
influence on the individual citizens. Not until then are the 
people and Reich secure in their existence for all time." 
(D-75)


3.Regarding the war on terror;how do you feel about the 
relation 
between current affairs of now,and Isaac and Ishmael of 
old.Or 
does it relate?

There is definitely a relationship here.  These conflict in the 
middle east come from origins of thousands of years.  Not 
only 
between Isaac and Ishmael but also between Isaac's son's 
Esau and 
Jacob.

***
The following quote comes from a commentary to be found 
using the 
following link:

http://gospelcom.net/shofar/pp/until/until.php

Though the Palestinians want Jerusalem for the capital of 
their 
own Palestinian state, Palestine, God's word teaches that 
the 
Jewish people will end up in Jerusalem with this city as 
their 
eternal political and religious capital, forever (Psalms 
132:13-14; Ezekiel 37:24-28; and Zechariah 1:14-17).

Ezekiel 35 and Obadiah are both prophecies of a people in 
the 
last days that come to power with the purpose of eliminating 
the 
Jewish state and its people. The people described in these 
passages are the Palestinian people of today, descendants 
of the 
Edomites, Esau.

What we are witnessing today in Israel, the struggle 
between the 
Israelis and the Palestinians, is the precursor to these 
scriptures being completely fulfilled. Since it has never been 
just like it is today, seemingly in lock-step with the word of 
God, Arafat's every action and word move us closer to the 
time of 
fulfilled prophecy.
***

I have included the portion of scripture that describes the 
birth 
of the fore fathers of both Israel and Palestine.  You may 
look 
up the preceding scriptures in any Bible and read for 
yourselves 
the prophecies stated therein.

Genesis 25:19-23  And these [are] the generations of Isaac, 
Abraham's son: Abraham begat Isaac:  And Isaac was forty 
years 
old when he took Rebekah to wife, the daughter of Bethuel 
the 
Syrian of Padan-aram, the sister to Laban the Syrian.  And 
Isaac 
entreated the LORD for his wife, because she [was] barren: 
and 
the LORD was entreated of him, and Rebekah his wife 
conceived.  
And the children struggled together within her; and she
said, If [it be] so, why [am] I thus? And she went to inquire of 
the LORD.  And the LORD said unto her, Two nations [are] 
in thy 
womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from 
thy 
bowels; and [the one] people shall be stronger than [the 
other] 
people; and the
elder shall serve the younger.  And when her days to be 
delivered 
were fulfilled, behold, [there were] twins in her womb.  And 
the 
first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they 
called his name Esau.  And after that came his brother out, 
and 
his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was 
called Jacob: 
and Isaac [was] threescore years old when she bare them.  
And the 
boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the 
field; and 
Jacob [was] a plain man, dwelling in tents.  And Isaac loved 
Esau, because he did eat of [his] venison: but Rebekah 
loved 
Jacob.  And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the 
field, and 
he [was] faint:  And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray 
thee, 
with that same red [pottage]; for I [am] faint: therefore was 
his 
name called Edom.  And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy 
birthright.  And Esau said, Behold, I [am] at the point to die: 
and what profit shall this birthright do to me?  And Jacob 
said, 
Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold 
his 
birthright unto Jacob.

Esau  = Edom = Palestine
Jacob = Isreal


As a final note to add to yet another posting I read this 
morning 
by Missin'.  Christ did die for us, for all of us, not just 
a fractional few.  He died the death he did so that the 
prophecies of old would be fulfilled and that those who 
chose to 
search, see and believe might be saved from their own sin.

Thanks for the firm stand Missin' .




From: Radio Europe 
To: the E.S.D. 
Subject: 1, 2 and 3 
Date: Wed Dec 5 15:05:54 2001 
Message:

1.In a free society such as the United 
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe,without 
repercussions from said goverments or society in general?
(by  "repercussions", we are refering to 
imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or even death.)

In any given democracy, the constitution protects individuals 
from other individuals. 
In the old world (since the Greeks, who invented these very 
principles) this principle was called bound liberty.
The democracy protects its' citizens only as long as these 
same citizens respect it's civil laws (and therefore each 
individuals' fellow citizen) and of course its' constitution.
In return the citizen who respects the lawmaker is protected 
by the very state.
The latter is the base of the very existance of the state, in 
wich laws are made by chosen representatives from these 
same citizens.
In the antique form of democracy, anyone actively going 
against the constitution OR not respecting law, was sort of 
placed "outside of" it.

Most Western democracies have never been confronted 
with religious groups that are potentially anty-democratic or 
able to bring political instability.
Lately however, an Immans in Europe has, for instance, 
openly declared to have understanding for the punishment 
of homosexuals.
Luckily he will probably be sentenced to jail for a few 
months, since homosexuals are treated like other citizens 
over there, unlike in Muslim states...

Then: 

Amsterdam, the Netherlands, november 29th:
The mayor of Amsterdam has received an official letter from 
rabbi Dr. R. Evers-Emden about the capitals' police forces' 
attitude.  
For years it has neglected complaints about anti-semitic 
behaviour by arabic speaking youths.
It has now become impossible for the rabbis' children to 
visit sinagog without being attacked and harassed by the 
same youths.
In the fifth, consecutive year of his complaining the rabbi has 
decided to launch an official complaint, finally...


What we want to say by this, dear E.S.D., is that a 
democracy can only offer freedom as long as it is not used 
against others with equal rights.
A society should give us all freedom but at the same time 
protect us from others who abuse it.
Most democracies are extremely reluctant to "adress" in a 
political or legal sense, religious groups, political parties or 
ethnic groups from within their society, simply because their 
freedom is guaranteed by its' very constitution.
As soon as these groups' behaviour becomes politically 
destabilising or a clear and proven danger to others (like, 
say, a nazi-statement)....
than that may change.  






2.In societies that control freedom of said choices;what is 
the purpose of that control over society?

Stability, in political, social and most importantly, 
economical favour of its' regime.
That is why it is not unusual for a regime to die, together 
with a head of state...
Usually, the constitution is also fully in favour of the regime, 
in contrast to a democracy where it is made for citizens.
When not, it is mostly manipulated. 
...Like elections in most these forms of state.




3.Regarding the war on terror;how do you feel about the 
relation between current affairs of now,and Isaac and 
Ishmael of old. Or does it relate?


Regarding the above, we think it not a good idea to relate to 
matters "of old". 
We rather see the democratic side of the world take its' 
responsibilities toward anyone posing a threat to it, instead 
of getting its' values get corrupted by propaganda in any 
religions' name.
We do not think this war relates to Isaac and Ishmael of old.
We are also convinced that it is better the other side in this 
war keep its' religious motivations to itself.
These religious motivations are getting more racist by the 
day. 
And we should be careful not to get dragged in to these 
religous visions.


This is about extreme violence, the abuse of a religion, vile 
propaganda,
the accumulation of poor peoples' frustrations, and the well 
organised canalisation of the resuting hatred towards for 
instance the U.S.A....

For even if our enemies were half the worlds' population, 
this cannot be tolerated in a modern, human world, 
for it would simply mean the end of it.




We excuse for our elaborate answers and for not answering 
them directly...


We highly value your posts, for none of us we think have 
come closer to the core of the matter as you have, so far...



From Europe, this was Radio Europe... 

  

From: U.K.Citizen 
To: theE.S.D. 
Subject: Re: Opinion Poll 
Date: Wed Dec 5 18:56:40 2001 
Message:

In answer, if a little late...

1. The nations and areas of the world you specified seem 
(but I 
stand ready to be corrected) to have, through their nation's 
constitutions, succesfully separated to varying degrees 
church/religion from the state. It may be debatable as to 
whether it is a panacea, but at a glance at least, countries 
who 
value secularism find it easier to have faiths that are able to 
co-exist alongside each other rather better than a nation 
which 
has theology as its principle priority. Any religious system no 
matter how valid (only in my opinion I hasten to add), that is 
in some way, a part of the ruling government of that country 
must surely be open to being compromised. Governments, 
and 
persons who constitute the government are in positions of 
power 
over the populace and over the nation they represent (or in 
many 
cases claim to). If a government's priority is to cling onto 
power, then any religion that is involved could also if not 
careful, take on that same mentality. In England, many of our 
indigenous population are babtised protestants overseen 
by the 
Church of England. An ever declining proportion of which , 
are 
not active in church attendance. Numbers may have 
stabilized 
now, or may even be increasing, I cannot give an informed 
opinion if that is the case. The general point, is that in a 
nation where religion is not deemed to be the be all and end 
all, there seems to be more freedom for people to choose 
not to 
worship at all, to change religions and if not accept, then at 
least tolerate other religious worship to some degreee. The 
building of mosques in their neighbourhoods for instance.

On a related issue, Oliver Cromwell who ousted Charles I in 
a 
bitter Civil War some years after the practice of Christianity 
in England had been reformed, put the state as represented 
by 
Parliament as his chief priority 'ahead' of religion, although 
he was very much a staunch protestant himself. Cromwell 
utterly 
refused to be made a King himself after all the effort he put 
in 
to removing the previous King. He ruled as 'defender of the 
nation' for some years during which he was the 'first' 
English 
ruler to allow the building of the very first synagogues in 
England. The influence of religion and the Monarhcy over 
government were never as powerful from his time in power. 
Britian as a nation, with these changes in place steadily 
grew 
more sucessful from then on.

2. Power corrupts...(if only if not careful!),Government in 
whatever form is absolute power, absolute power corrupts 
absolutely...(but again only if not careful!). If religious 
influence is prevalent in the upper reaches of government in 
the 
act of maintaining power...that religion's founding principles 
come under serious threat..and in time...the people who live 
under it, especially if they choose to practice another 
religion.

3. If those living in that region, base their history in these 
specific lines you highlighted, neither side in my opinion 
have 
any future. Such thinking will self-perputuate conflict 
indefinately. It is ALL TO EASY as an outsider to 
comment...but 
it is ONLY by having the courage to look forward to the future 
and not back to the past, that any future worth having, will 
ever be attained.  
         



From: Everyman 
To: E.S.D. 
Subject: Pop Quiz 
Date: Thu Dec 6 14:23:48 2001 
Message:

****************************************

1.In a free society such as the United 
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe, without 
repercussions from said goverments or society in general?
(by  "repercussions", we are refering to 
imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or even death.)

In the words of our forefathers:


'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are 
created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with 
certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, 
Liberty 
and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, 
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just 
powers 
from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form 
of 
Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the 
Right of 
the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new 
Government, laying its foundation on such principles and 
organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem 
most 
likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, 
indeed, 
will dictate that Governments long established should not 
be 
changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all 
experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to 
suffer, 
while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by 
abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But 
when a 
long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably 
the 
same Object evinces a design to reduce them under 
absolute 
Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off 
such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future 
security'


2.In societies that control freedom of said choices; what is 
the purpose of that control over society?


Just that--CONTROL
POWER
An imposition upon and manipulation of others for the 
benefit of 
a few.  Talk about an abusive relationship!

(A feeling of inadequacy, perhaps?)




3.Regarding the war on terror; how do you feel about the 
relationsip between current affairs of now, and Isaac and 
Ishmael of old. Or does it relate?

I think it does relate.  It is part of the  collective 
consciousness  that we all hold within us.
For many, Ishmael is regarded as the  illegitimate  son.  
Ishmael is equated with stubbornness, violence, and 
irrationality.  In the words of Swedenborg:

 People whose rationality consists only of truth--even though 
it 
is truth that comes from faith--and not of the good of 
kindness 
also, are of this character. They are quick to find fault, make 
no allowances, are against all, regard everyone as being in 
error, are instantly prepared to rebuke, chasten, and punish, 
show no pity, and put no effort or energy into redirecting 
people's minds. They view everything from the standpoint of 
truth, and nothing from the standpoint of goodness. In short, 
they are hard people. 

 He shall be a wild donkey.  His hand against all.  Genesis 
16:12

Issac, on the other hand, is represented by spiritual 
rationality, peacefulness, returning good for evil; instead of 
fighting for land and wells, he went out and found new land, 
and 
after a time had people coming to him for advice on how to 
live 
peacefully; even his enemies.

So yes, we have those who wish to fight and those who 
wish to 
live in peace.

'They shall beat their swords into plowshares and their 
spears 
into pruning hooks.
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation. Neither shall 
they learn war anymore.'
Isaiah 2:4 

Don t you think it s time for  Ishmael  to wake up and smell 
the 
coffee?  No good is being accomplished by imposing 
violence upon 
others.





From: Ashraf 
To: E.S.D. 
Subject: ... 
Date: Fri Dec 7 17:37:38 2001 
Message:

Thank you for directing the questions to me.. I appreciate ur 
gesture.. About being enlightened with what I have to say in 
response to ur question, I doubt that will happen, but here 
are 
my responses any way:

Question 1:
In a free society such as the United 
States,U.K.,Europe,etc.;why is there freedom of choice in 
religion,or even choice of not to believe, without 
repercussions from said goverments or society in general?
(by  "repercussions", we are refering to 
imprisonment,beatings,public scorn,or even death.)
Answer:
In the above countries, human rights is not a banner ad that 
is 
used for propoganda. It is a belief that is actually followed by 
the leaders and civilians of the said countries. Therefore, 
since the freedom
of religion is a part of any human being, the matter is 
considered to be sacred. 
In most of other countries of the world, it is non-existant, and 
if at best it is, then it is tolerated to a minimal extent, as 
long at it is in conformity with its own policies.. ie it is 
virtually non-existant in most countries..

Question 2:
2.In societies that control freedom of said choices; what is 
the purpose of that control over society?
Answer:
The oppression of its people, to blindly follow the religions 
laid out before them, to ensure that the over all tide in the 
country they are in control of, would automatically justify any 
decisions taken by the higher authorities, without question, 
since such decisions have been taken in the name of the 
dominant 
religion of that country. They give no regard to the 
individual's opinion nor to his freedom of choice, and view 
him 
merely as a means to an end.. So why should his freedom 
of 
choice not be oppressed as well..??

Question 3:
Regarding the war on terror; how do you feel about the 
relationsip between the current affairs of now, and Isaac 
and 
Ishmael of old. Or does it relate?
Answer:
I understand the statement you are trying to make.. but when 
one 
speaks about or in the name of religion, one has to be 
careful. 
Therefore, please give me sometime to prepare my answer 
in the 
manner that will do justice to the question in hand.. But yes, 
I 
do believe they relate..

And thank you for these intelligent questions..

Peace..


================================

=======================
Ishmael
=======
Ishmael, from the Hebrew word meaning God hears, was 
the son of Abraham and Hagar, the Egyptian maid of his 
wife Sarah. When Sarah had found herself not having 
children, she arranged to have a child with Abraham by 
Hagar acting as a surrogate mother (Genesis 16:1-4), even 
though God had specifically stated that a child would be 
born to Sarah in due time (see Isaac). The result was bitter 
conflict between Ishmael and Isaac, and their descendants, 
that has gone on right to the present day.

Ishmael was born at Mamre, when Abraham was 86, 11 
years after Abraham's arrival in what would become the land 
of Israel (Genesis 16:3). He grew up to be a man of the 
desert wilderness, with a wild and hostile attitude toward 
people, exactly as God described him to his mother before 
he was born:


"Behold, you are with child, and shall bear a son; you shall 
call his name Ishmael; because The Lord has given heed to 
your affliction. He shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand 
against every man and every man's hand against him; and 
he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen." (Genesis 
16:11-12 RSV).

When a feast was held to celebrate the weaning of Isaac, 
who was born 13 years later, Ishmael caused trouble by 
insulting and mocking his little brother (Genesis 21:8-9). 
After Sarah, who by then had come to dislike both Hagar 
and Ishmael, saw what he was doing, she said to Abraham 
"Cast out this slave woman with her son; for the son of this 
slave woman shall not be heir with my son Isaac." (Genesis 
21:10 RSV)

Abraham at first resisted Sarah's demand - despite 
Ishmael's difficult personality, Abraham loved him and did 
not want to see him go. God however settled the matter:


"But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of 
the lad and because of your slave woman; whatever Sarah 
says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your 
descendants be named. And I will make a nation of the son 
of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring." 
(Genesis 21:12-13 RSV)

Hagar and Ishmael were sent away, but they were not 
abandoned. God appeared and spoke to Hagar, assuring 
her that He would watch over them and see them prosper 
(Genesis 21:17-19). "And God was with the lad, and he 
grew up; he lived in the wilderness, and became an expert 
with the bow. He lived in the wilderness of Paran; and his 
mother took a wife for him from the land of Egypt" (Genesis 
21:20-21 RSV).

Isaac and Ishmael apparently did not meet again until 
Abraham died: "Isaac and Ishmael his sons buried him in 
the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of 
Zohar the Hittite, east of Mamre, the field which Abraham 
purchased from the Hittites. There Abraham was buried, 
with Sarah his wife" (Genesis 25:9-10 RSV). The place 
today is known as the Tomb of the Patriarchs in Hebron, 
where the conflict for control of it still rages between the 
descendants of Isaac and Ishmael.

Ishmael lived 137 years (Genesis 25:17). He had 12 sons, 
who became the founders of Ishmaelite tribes that spread 
from Egypt to what is today Iraq. Many of the modern-day 
Arab peoples correctly recognize that they are the 
descendants of Ishmael, while the Jews, and the rest of the 
Israelites, are descendants of Isaac - but all are descended 
from Abraham.

========================
related scripture: Galatians 4:21-31
========================

Galatians 4:21-31

4:21"Tell me, ye that desire to be under law, do ye not hear 
the law?" 
4:22"For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by 
a bondmaid, the other by a free-woman." 
4:23"But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the 
flesh, but he of the free-woman was by promise."
4:24"Which things are an allegory: for these are the two 
covenants; the one from the mount Si'-nai, which gendereth 
to bondage, which is A'gar."
4:25"For this A'gar is mount Si'nai in Arabia,and answereth 
to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her 
childern."
4:26"But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the 
mother of us all."
4:27"For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; 
break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate 
hath many more childeren than she which hath an 
husband."
4:28"Now we, brethren, as Issac was, are the childeren of 
promise."
4:29"But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted 
him that was born after the Spirit,
even so it is now."
4:30"Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the 
bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman 
shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."
4:31"So then, brethren, we are not childeren of the 
bondwoman, but of the free."

=================

From: Radio europe 
To: John, Allatti2d, others... 
Subject: crunch time 
Date: Mon Nov 26 18:01:24 2001 
Message:

The Character of God in Bible and Qur'an

A Study In Contrasts 

These are the notes of the Christian speaker from a 
Muslim-Christian dialog end of 1998
The Muslim speaker's notes have not been made available 
to us 

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen! I think tonight we are 
witnessing a very exciting event, since it is not very often that 
Muslims and Christians get together to listen to each other. 
And I would like to put the emphasis tonight on truly 
listening to each other. 

I have not come here with my boxing gloves. I have not come 
here to score points or win an intellectual battle. I am sure 
most of the Christians and the Muslims out in the audience 
have already raised their defensive walls quite high and are 
ready for a good fight on the stage. Well, I would like to ask 
everyone to make a conscious attempt to lower their walls 
and try to listen empathetically to the position of the other 
side. After 1400 years of debates and polemical exchanges 
between Muslims and Christians, a deep gulf of 
misunderstanding still separates the two communities of 
faith. 

Just to cite one example, a great contemporary Muslim 
writer, Shabbir Akhtar, can still say, 


"Most Muslims, including educated ones, know next to 
nothing about Christology. Few Muslims can distinguish 
clearly between the view that a man claims to be divine - a 
blasphemy - and the entirely different view according to 
which God volunteers to become human - the orthodox 
Christian conviction. And both of these views are routinely 
confused with the heretical doctrine that God `adopted' a 
son... A Muslim cannot reasonably claim to be seriously 
engaged in dialogue with Christians unless he can 
possess a thorough knowledge of the Christian faith..."[1] 

Of course, one can put the same charge towards Christians 
and their ignorance of the Islamic faith and the many 
negative stereo-typed images that Christians have 
developed against Muslims. 

So, once again, my request is that tonight we would all 
make an extra effort to really listen and thus take one step 
closer towards a mutual understanding of each other's 
position. 

Having said that, I must note that I am not advocating that 
we ought to brush aside the deep and genuine differences 
that divide Islam and Christianity. In fact, in my lecture 
tonight, I would like to highlight five points of tension that I 
notice as a Christian when I compare the doctrine of God as 
it is developed in the Christian faith with the view of God 
expounded by the Qur'an and historic, orthodox Islamic 
theology. 

I would like to start with an analogy. I am not very musically 
minded, but I can imagine that if one immerses himself or 
herself in the musical style of a great composer, one can tell 
which pieces belong to the genuine composition of this 
great musician and which pieces are not genuine. One 
begins to develop a "feel" for what a composer sounds like. 
I guess that same thing can be true of great painters or the 
great poets. Some of you might know the "feel" of the poetry 
of Hafiz or Rumi so well, that you can immediately tell if a 
piece of poetry is written by them or not. 

In a same way, when I pay close attention to the character of 
God portrayed for us through the biblical narratives and then 
I compare it with the Qur'an, I get the strong sense that the 
Qur'an plays a different tune, that it does not exactly match 
the God of the Bible, even though the Qur'an claims to be 
from the same God. 

This is not an exhaustive list, but I would like to bring to your 
attention, five areas of disagreement between these two 
portraits of God. These areas concern the issues of THE 
INTIMCAY OF GOD (with his people), THE SUFFERING OF 
GOD, THE LOVE OF GOD, THE KNOWABILITY OF GOD (the 
question regarding whether we can know the character of 
God, what God is like), and THE HOLINESS OF GOD. 

The reason that I would like to focus on these fundamental 
characteristics is that they provide the foundational basis for 
such distinctive Christian concepts as the doctrine of the 
Trinity, the incarnation and the atonement. Oftentimes, 
Muslims and Christians argue ad infinitum about these 
specific Christian doctrines and don't come to any better 
understanding of each other, because they have not realized 
that their disagreement about the nature of God is even 
more foundational than they had thought. There is no use 
talking about more advanced concepts, if we don't even 
have the basics down, no use arguing about the complex 
formulas of advanced calculus, if we have not understood 
the simple principles of arithmetic. 

So, let me now elaborate on what I mean by these areas of 
disagreement that I have highlighted. 

I. The Intimacy of God 

A.   The dominant Qur'anic picture is that of a master and 
servant. Even though there is a Qur'anic verse that claims 
that God is closer to the people than their own jugular 
vein,[2] nevertheless, the idea of God's intimacy with his 
people is not very much developed in the Qur'an or in 
orthodox Islamic theology. In fact, sura 50:16, is set in the 
context of the angels recording man's deeds for the day of 
judgment. God is constantly referred to as a Sovereign 
Master (although he is Rahman and Rahim). He is gracious 
and is the source of all the bounties of the earth, but overall 
the image is that he is far above and beyond the struggles 
and the tragedies in the human realm. 

Once again, Shabbir Akhtar gives us the following insightful 
comments: 


Visitors to the famous Cordoba mosque in Spain cannot fail 
to read the ubiquitous inscription, `He is the dominant 
(Huwal-ghalib)'. What a revealing index to the Muslim 
mind![3] 

Furthermore, 


Muslims do not see God as their father or, equivalently, 
themselves as the children of God. Men are servants of a 
just master; they cannot, in orthodox Islam, typically attain 
any greater degree of intimacy with their creator.[4] 

Kenneth Cragg, in his classic book, The Call of the Minaret, 
points to the same basic insight. After briefly reviewing the 
99 most beautiful names of God (Asma' al-Husna) in the 
Qur'an, he observes, 


This eternal and all-encompassing God is described as 
"the Creator," "the Fashioner," "the Life-Giver," "the Provider," 
"the Opener," "the Bestower," "the Prevailer." God brings to 
life and brings to death, is "the Reckoner" and "the 
Recorder," "the King of Kingship" and "the Lord of the 
Worlds." It is repeatedly declared in the Qur'an that there is 
no strength and no power save in God, who "is over all 
things supreme." ... 

The relative frequency with which the different names occur 
is a matter of deep interest. Terms, or their corresponding 
verbs, that have to do with strength, majesty, greatness are 
most prominent.[5] 

B.   Of course, the Bible also presents us with the picture of 
a Sovereign God who is the infinite one and the creator of 
the universe. However, the Biblical faith also describes 
God's relationship with his people in many tender 
passages in which God is portrayed as a father who 
teaches his child to walk (Deut. 1:31, Hosea 11:1-4),[6] a 
shepherd who carries his lamb in his arms (Isa. 40:11),[7] a 
lover who woos his beloved, and even a husband who 
longs for his unfaithful wife to return (Jer. 3:1,12,14).[8] 

We are confronted with a God who dwells in the midst of his 
people and desires to have an intimate relationship with 
them. The book of Revelation, the last book of the Bible, 
gives us a glimpse of the fulfillment of God's relationship 
with his people, when the author states, 


And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the 
dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They 
will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be 
their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will 
be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old 
order of things has passed away." [Rev. 21:3-4] 

  

II. The Suffering of God 

A.   The God of the Qur'an shows his mercy to humankind by 
sending prophets to guide the people to the straight path. 
God sends prophets to various people groups but judges 
the disobedient nations (oftentimes by destroying them) 
when they don't listen to God's prophets (see the sura of the 
poets, al-Shuara, as one example of this prominent Qur'anic 
theme). God's dealings with people are reported in a very 
matter of fact way. To cite one example, I would like to focus 
your attention on the stories of Noah. The Qur'anic 
passages which have more of an extended treatment of 
Noah are found in sura 7:59-64; 11:25-49; 23:23-30; 
26:105-122; 37:75-82; 54:9-15; and sura 71:1-28 which is 
the sura of Nuh. In all these passages, Noah warns his 
people, they disbelieve in his message and God sends the 
flood to destroy the unbelievers. Period. We are not told 
anything about how any of this, whether the peoples' 
sinfulness or the judgment of God, affects God himself. 

B.   The Bible on the other hand presents us with a God who 
suffers because of his disobedient people. He is grieved, 
he is angered. The prophets of Israel reveal him as a 
wounded lover, a husband who feels the pain of betrayal 
because of his unfaithful wife, a father whose heart is 
broken because of his rebellious children. I will get back to 
these images, but to continue our example of Noah, let's 
begin by looking at Gen. 6:5-7 : 


The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth 
had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his 
heart was only evil all the time. The LORD was grieved that 
he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with 
pain. So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have 
created, from the face of the earth - men and animals, and 
creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air - 
for I am grieved that I have made them." 

Please note the emphasis of the text on the suffering of God 
in that in the space of two verses, three times we are 
informed that God was grieved, filled with pain and grieved. 
The significance of this repetition is pointed out by the 
eminent German Old Testament scholar, Claus 
Westermann, who writes, "Yahweh's regret is so important 
for the [writer] that he puts it before the decision to destroy 
and repeats it again after it. He considered it decisive for the 
understanding of the event which these verses introduce."[9] 
As Walter Brueggemann, a prominent American OT scholar 
puts it, "The narrative is not about the anger of God but 
about the grief of God."[10] 

Due to the shortness of time, let me draw your attention to 
only one more passage in the OT. The prophet Hosea, 
describes the intimacy of God's relationship with Israel in 
terms of the intimacy of a husband and wife and a father 
and child. But God brings a charge against Israel for being 
an unfaithful wife, by going after idols, and a rebellious child. 
Commenting on the imageries of Hosea, one of the most 
profound Jewish thinkers of the 20th century, Abraham 
Heschel, writes, "Hosea has given us a supreme 
expression of the vision of the subjective God so typical for 
prophetic awareness." He continues: 


God is conceived, not as a self-detached Ruler, but as the 
sensitive Consort to Whom deception comes and Who 
nevertheless goes on pleading for loyalty, uttering a longing 
for a reunion, a passionate desire for reconciliation.... 
Hosea is able to express as no other prophet the love of 
God for Israel in its most varied forms - as compassion, as 
a mother's tenderness, as love between husband and 
wife.[11] 

And a Christian commentator, Terrence Fretheim, describes 
the language of Hosea in this way, 


The image here, obviously, is not that of some heavenly 
General Patton having difficulty tolerating acts of 
insubordination. Rather, it is the image of the long-suffering 
parent and, given the roles in child rearing in Israel, it is 
probably more the image of mother than father. God is 
pictured as one in great anguish over what the children have 
done, but her love is such that she cannot let go. [12] 

Fretheim beautifully summarizes the impact of these 
various images, 


God has been rejected both as parent and as husband! 
God is like a person who has been rejected not only by his 
spouse but by his children as well. God suffers the effects of 
the broken relationship at multiple levels of intimacy. The 
wounds of God are manifold.[13] 

It should be noted that this divine suffering is not because 
God is weak, but because he is love and one cannot truly 
love without opening oneself up to risking the possibility of 
rejection and the pain which results from it. 

  

III. The Love of God 

A.   Much ink has been shed on this issue, portraying Islam 
as having an unloving God. That is not true, but 
nevertheless, the Qur'anic picture is quite different. God 
loves the good, not the unlovely and the sinner. 

That God does not love the sinner is abundantly clear in the 
Quran. Note these key verses from the Quran: 


"Allah loves not transgressors" (2:190); 

"He loves not creatures ungrateful or wicked" (2:276); 

"Say: 'Obey Allah and His Apostle;' but if they turn back Allah 
loves not those who reject Faith." (3:32); 

"Allah loves not those who do wrong" (3:57, 140); 

"Allah loves not the arrogant, the vainglorious" (4:36). 

"Say, if ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love and forgive 
you your sins." (3:31) 

The Quran is littered with dozens of verses like this. It is a 
fact, nowhere in the Quran is God ever reported to love 
someone who does not love Him first, nor is God's love ever 
used as the central motivating factor to draw someone 
close to Him. 

B.   In contrast, both the Old and New Testaments record 
that God loves everyone regardless of their sin. In the Bible, 
we see God as not only the initiator of love but as one who 
loves those who are his enemies. 


"The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, 
because you were more in number than any people; for you 
[were] the fewest of all people...." (Deut. 7:7) 

In the New Testament we see that God's love for sinful man 
is given as the primary reason He sent Jesus Christ. 


"For God so loved the world He gave His One and Only 
Son.... (John 3:16). Also, "This is love, not that we loved God, 
but that He loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation 
for our sins. " (I John 4:10) And, "We love, because He first 
loved us." (I John 4:19) 

C.   The concept of Grace is radically different in the two 
religions! 

  

IV. The Knowability of God 

A.   This point becomes a bit heavy on the philosophical 
side, but I would appreciate your patience here, because it 
has profound practical ramifications. Despite all the names 
of God in the Qur'an, in orthodox Islam we confront a God 
who is basically unknowable. These names do not tell us 
anything about what God is like but only how God has willed 
to act. God's actions do not reflect God's nature. 

Al-Ghazali, the most prominent theologian in the history of 
Islam, went so far as to say: 


"The end result of the knowledge of the `arifin is their 
inability to know Him, and their knowledge is, in truth, that 
they do not know Him and that it is absolutely impossible for 
them to know Him."[14] 

Fadlou Shehadi, a contemporary scholar of Al-Ghazali, after 
analyzing Al-Ghazali's arguments about the transcendence 
of God, concludes, 


From all the foregoing, one important consequence has to 
be drawn. 

God is Utterly Unknowable 

If God is a unique kind of being unlike any other being in any 
respect, more specifically, unlike anything known to man, it 
would have to follow by Ghazali's own principles that God is 
utterly unknowable. For, according to Ghazali, things are 
known by their likenesses, and what is utterly unlike what is 
known to man cannot be known. Furthermore, God would 
have to be unknowable, completely unknowable, not only to 
'the man in the street', but to prophets and mystics as well. 
This is a conclusion that Ghazali states very explicitly and 
not infrequently. It is also a view that is often stated 
independently of its logical relation to God's utter 
uniqueness.[15] 

Another contemporary scholar of Islam, Isma`il al-Faruqi 
expresses the mainstream Islamic thinking on the inability 
of humans to know God, when he writes: 


He [God] does not reveal Himself to anyone in any way. God 
reveals only His will. Remember one of the prophets asked 
God to reveal Himself and God told him, "No, it is not 
possible for Me to reveal Myself to anyone. "...This is God's 
will and that is all we have, and we have it in perfection in 
the Qur'an. But Islam does not equate the Qur'an with the 
nature or essence of God. It is the Word of God, the 
Commandment of God, the Will of God. But God does not 
reveal Himself to anyone. Christians talk about the 
revelation of God Himself - by God of God - but that is the 
great difference between Christianity and Islam. God is 
transcendent, and once you talk about self-revelation you 
have hierophancy and immanence, and then the 
transcendence of God is compromised. You may not have 
complete transcendence and self-revelation at the same 
time.[16] 

Shabbir Akhtar, again: 


The Koran, unlike the Gospel, never comments on the 
essence of Allah. 'Allah is wise' or 'Allah is loving' may be 
pieces of revealed information but, in contrast to Christianity, 
Muslims are not enticed to claim that 'Allah is Love' or 'Allah 
is Wisdom'. Only adjectival descriptions are attributed to the 
divine being and these merely as they bear on the revelation 
of God's will for man. The rest remains mysterious.[17] 

Kenneth Cragg: 


"[all the attributes] are to be understood finally as 
characteristics of the divine will rather than laws of the divine 
nature. Action, that is arising from such descriptives may be 
expected, but not as a matter of necessity. What gives unity 
to all God's dealings is that God wills them all. He as Willer 
may be recognized from time to time by means of the 
descriptions given. But God does not essentially conform to 
any of them. The act of the divine will may be identified in 
this or that quality; the will itself is inscrutable. One may not, 
therefore, say that God is necessarily loving, holy, righteous, 
clement, or relenting, in every and all relationships. 

It is this fact that explains the antithesis in certain of the 
Names. Such antithesis would not be theologically 
predicable if either element within it were essential to God's 
nature. Because they are not, God's action may 
demonstrate each element in differing relations. The 
antithesis is dogmatically resolved in the realm of will, in 
that God wills both - in every other sense and realm, 
antithesis remains. But the problem has no anguish and is, 
indeed, inscrutable, given the conviction of the divine will as 
an ultimate beyond which neither reason nor revelation go. 
So God is "the One who leads astray," as well as "the One 
who guides." God is "the One who brings damage," as also 
does Satan. God is described also by terms such as "the 
Bringer-down," "the Compeller" or "Tyrant," "the Haughty" - 
all of which, when humanly used, have an evil sense. In the 
unity of the single will, however, these descriptions coexist 
with those that relate to mercy, compassion, and glory."[18] 

B.   The biblical emphasis is that God has revealed himself 
and our highest calling is to know God and be in intimate 
relationship with him (e.g., Jer. 9:23-24; Matt. 11:27; Jn. 
1:18; Jn. 17:3; II Cor. 4:6). 



      This is what the LORD says: 
      "Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom 
       or the strong man boast of his strength 
       or the rich man boast of his riches,
      but let him who boasts boast about this: 
       that he understands and knows me,
       that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, 
       justice and righteousness on earth, 
       for in these I delight," declares the LORD. [Jer. 9:23-24]

      All things have been committed to me by my Father. 
      No one knows the Son except the Father, 
      and no one knows the Father except the Son 
      and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." [Mt. 
11:27]

      No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, 
      who is at the Father's side, has made him known. [John 
1:18]

      Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, 
      the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have 
sent. 
                                              [John 17:3]

      For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," 
      made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light 
      of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. 
                                           [II Cor. 4:6]


God is as God has acted! In the Christian faith the actions of 
God in the history of redemption provide the basis for the 
Christian doctrine of the Trinity. God has revealed himself in 
the history of redemption by showing himself to be our 
Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier. We see a God who is not 
only above us as our heavenly Father, but with us in Christ 
(Immanuel) and in us through the Holy Spirit. 

  

V. The Holiness of God 

A.   Even though Muslims often give the impression that 
Islam presents a loftier picture of God's forgiveness, 
because God just forgives when people repent and does 
not need any bloody sacrifices to atone for people's sin, the 
Qur'an is at odds with the biblical emphasis on God's 
holiness and his requirement for sacrifices. 

B.   As a Christian, I find it incredible that the adjective Holy 
(Quddus) is only used twice of God in the Qur'an. See 
Leviticus as the heart of the Torah. This is the basis for the 
heart of the Christian view of atonement. Guthrie explains 
the need for the atonement such: 


Costly Love 

If God already loves and forgives us, why atonement at all? 
Why did Jesus have to die to reconcile us to God? Why did 
not God just say, "I forgive you," and let it go at that? 

We can catch a glimpse of the answer with an analogy in 
human relationships. Suppose that I have done something 
that betrays a friendship and hurts a friend. Suppose that I 
go to her to tell her how sorry I am and how bad I feel about 
it, and she says to me, "That's OK. It doesn't make any 
difference. Forget it." Has she forgiven me? What she has 
really said is, "I don't care enough about you to be bothered 
by anything you say or do. You are not that important to me." 
She also leaves me alone with the pain of my guilt, refusing 
to help me deal with it, put it behind me, and make a fresh 
beginning with her. 

Good-natured indulgence and casual acceptance are not 
forgiveness and love but an expression of indifference and 
sometimes hostility. Real love and forgiveness mean caring 
enough to be hurt, caring enough to put ourselves in others' 
shoes and sharing their guilt as if it were our own. Real love 
and forgiveness are costly - not in the sense that the guilty 
party must squeeze them out of the injured party but in the 
sense that the injured party genuinely sympathizes with the 
guilty and shares his or her pain. 

Why did Jesus have to die? Why atonement? Because God 
cares for us too much to dismiss our sin and guilt with a 
flippant "It doesn't matter." Because words were not enough: 
action was necessary to prove that God's love and 
forgiveness are genuine. Because God wanted to stand 
with us in the loneliness and alienation we bring on 
ourselves when we separate ourselves from God and other 
people. Because it is just when God comes to our side in 
our loneliness, alienation, and guilt that they are overcome. 
In the cross God says to us, "Yes, it is true. You have hurt 
and offended me. But I still love you. Therefore I will make 
your guilt and its consequences my own. I will suffer with 
you - for you - to make things right between us again."[19] 

  

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes: 

[1]  Shabbir Akhtar, A Faith For All Seasons, Chicago, Ivan R. 
Dee Publisher, 1990, p. 182. 
[2]  It was We Who created man, and We know what dark 
suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to 
him than (his) jugular vein. [Q. 50:16] (also see sura 2:186; 
34:50; 56:85; 57:4 on "nearness"). 

When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed 
close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when 
he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, 
and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. [Q. 
2:186] 

Say: "If I am astray, I only stray to the loss of my own soul: 
but if I receive guidance, it is because of the inspiration of 
my Lord to me: it is He Who hears all things, and is (ever) 
near." [Q. 34:50] 

But We are nearer to him than ye, and yet see not,- [Q. 
56:85] 

He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, 
and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of 
Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what 
comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and 
what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye 
may be. And God sees well all that ye do. [Q. 57:4] 
[3]  Akhtar, op. cit., p. 129. 
[4]  Ibid., p. 180. 
[5]  Kenneth Cragg, The Call of the Minaret, 2nd ed., New 
York, Orbis Books, 1992, p. 35. 
[6] 

      There you saw how the LORD your God carried you, 
     as a father carries his son, all the way you went 
     until you reached this place.       [Deut. 1:31]

     "When Israel was a child, I loved him, 
         and out of Egypt I called my son.
      But the more I called Israel, 
         the further they went from me. 
         They sacrificed to the Baals 
         and they burned incense to images. 
      It was I who taught Ephraim to walk, 
         taking them by the arms; 
         but they did not realize it was I 
            who healed them. 
      I led them with cords of human kindness, 
         with ties of love; 
      I lifted the yoke from their neck 
        and bent down to feed them. [Hosea 11:1-4]


[7] 

       He tends his flock like a shepherd: 
         He gathers the lambs in his arms 
         and carries them close to his heart; 
      he gently leads those that have young. [Isaiah 40:11]


[8] 

       "If a man divorces his wife 
         and she leaves him and marries another man,
         should he return to her again? 
       Would not the land be completely defiled?
       But you have lived as a prostitute with many lovers - 
         would you now return to me?" declares the LORD.

       Go, proclaim this message toward the north: 
       "`Return, faithless Israel,' declares the LORD, 
       `I will frown on you no longer, for I am merciful,'
       declares the LORD, `I will not be angry forever. 

       "Return, faithless people," declares the LORD, 
          "for I am your husband. 
       I will choose you -  one from a town and two from a clan 
- 
         and bring you to Zion.  [Jeremiah 3:1,12,14]


[9]  Claus Westermann, Genesis 1-11: A Commentary, 
Minneapolis: Augsburg Publishing House, 1984, p. 407. 
[10]  Walter Brueggemann, "A Shape for Old Testament 
Theology," in The Flowering of Old Testament Theology, 
Ollenburger, Martens, Hasel, eds., Winoma Lake: 
Eisenbrauns, 1992, p. 418. 
[11]  Abraham Heschel, The Prophets, New York, The 
Jewish Publication Society of America, 1962, pp. 48-49. 
[12]  Terrence Fretheim, The Suffering of God, Philadelphia, 
Fortress Press, 1984, p. 120. 
[13]  Ibid., p. 116. 
[14]  Fadlou Shehadi, Ghazali's Unique Unknowable God, 
Leiden, E.J. Brill, 1964, p. 37. The `arifin, literally "the 
knowers", used by mystics in the sense of "gnostics". 
[15]  Ibid., pp. 21-22. Later on p. 48, he also states: 

Thus the uncompromising character of Ghazali's 
agnosticism follows logically from his uncompromising 
stand on the utter difference of God's nature. 

[16]  al-Faruqi, Christian Mission and Islamic Da`wah: 
Proceedings of the Chamb sy Dialogue Consultation [held 
1976 in Chamb sy, Switzerland], (Leicester: The Islamic 
Foundation, 1982), pp. 47-48 
[17]  Akhtar, op. cit., pp. 180-181. 
[18]  Cragg, op. cit., p. 36-37. 
[19]  Guthrie, Christian Doctrine, Revised Edition, 
Westminster/John Knox Press, 1994, p. 260

u know who, nick name Deep throat. 
     1 800 gay time

are you a lonely motherfucker or what?make them shorter.k

u know who are you a sick motherfucker or what?make them shorter.

go back a few months or so and then you'll understand [or 
maybe not]---either way you should see us as a friendly 
force.
--------------
We appreciate your interest in our "publication".
We hope we contribute in a positive way.
Our main interest with this forum is reading.The other would 
be to share and/or dissimulate information pertaining to 
current events.
We feel this is our best platform.

Again;we thank you.

I for one, enjoy reading your posts....Thanks

spy is a lonely motherfucker creeps around and talks shit

no Jews is good Jews.............Dead board

Excellent as always. Very interesting questions and answers on 
the 3 question poll. Sure beats the message board soap opera 
here lately. Keep up the good work.

BTW, you can see from the above post I've aquired a one or 
possibly multiple person fan club that posts in my name.

Hmmm. Who could it be? LOL!!

seems like a closet queen that fakes I.D. and has no sense of 
humor

what?make 

Hmmmm. I wonder who? LOL!!

Since Sharon has razzed Arafat, the anti christian/american shit 
went way down

u know who is a sick and lonely motherfucker creeps around and 
talks shit.

I read today that it might have been a 10 year old bomb boy that 
killed those 13 Israeli soldiers. 10 years old, are all these 
people fucked in the head or what. Palestinion/Isreali, it don't 
matter. They don't have a freekin brain in their collective 
heads.

I've thought about this, but Fact Finders brought it up last 
night and I'll go one step further. These dumbfucks are missing 
out on a tourism bonanza. The Middle East is the birthplace of 
several religions and people are dying (no pun intended) to go 
there! Big buck tourism for all if they could get their shit 
together. People from around the world would love to go to the 
Middle East and see these sites, but not at the risk of their 
lives. Then, they hit the U.S. up for funds because their 'poor'.
Fuck that shit! They got money starrin' them in the face and 
they claim they can't see it. Well, tough shit to all of them. 
Modern people with one iota of common sense would work out the 
problems somehow to benifit from the tourism, hotels, admission 
to the sites, freeking a Jesus Christ theme park next to the 
gigantic Allah's water world, home of the biggest water slide in 
the world! Ten bucks a prayer at Temple Mount!

thank you for your kind response.
we should hope you see who is who on the board by now  
....but we would imagine some are getting wiser, thus 
causing further confusion and mis-direction. 

If anybody needs to know where I am,use the Captan Krunch decoder 
ring I sent to you.that way you can find me even if Im fucking my 
mom,or if my dad is fucking me up my ass.

I want one too Spy. I want to be part of the group too. Can I 
please? I'll suck your cock for one.

That was real gutless.

I've tracked you.  Cease and desist!!!      

u know who to all  if anybody needs to know where I am use the 
Captain Krunch decoder ring i sent to you.that way you can even 
find me if Im fucking my mom,or if my dad is fucking me up my 
ass.i also need to control the board myself hope ya'll 
understand i just love being a total fucking control freak and 
hypocrite cause I think I know better than all of you.ive always 
been a twisted fuck,always have been always will be.

Wrong again asshole.Shut the fuck up.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blwingdings.htm
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blwingdings.htm
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blwingdings.htm

Israel stepping on Arafat has done a couple of things;
 It put the worldview of this whole Muslim issue in a very 
different light
 It made America look a whole lot different to the Islamic 
world; to think they are now hoping we will intervene. 
 It showed the world that the Islamic view was very wrong about 
their own plight. 
  Since 9-11 the Islamic world has learned that they had been 
lied to by their religious regime. And in fact America is a very 
rare form of freedom and is completely different from Israel, 
and in fact has very little in common when it comes to dealing 
and religion. 
  Bush is waffling a bit, due to the change. His hard line is 
now a diplomatic nightmare and he will need to rethink and 
retool to meet these new changes. We shall see if he is really a 
leader in the next few months. The glory given for reacting to 
the 9-11 attack is all fine & good, but the real test of 
intelligent decisions lies ahead.

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Look, I'm not a hateful person or anything I believe we should 
all live and let live. But lately, I've been having a real 
problem with these homosexuals. You see, just about wherever I 
go these days, one of them approaches me and starts sucking my 
cock. 

      Take last Sunday, for instance, when I casually struck up 
a conversation with this guy in the health-club locker room. 
Nothing fruity, just a couple of fellas talking about their 
workout routines while enjoying a nice hot shower. The guy 
looked like a real man's man, too big biceps, meaty thighs, 
thick neck. He didn't seem the least bit gay. At least not until 
he started sucking my cock, that is. 

      Where does this queer get the nerve to suck my cock? Did I 
look gay to him? Was I wearing a pink feather boa without 
realizing it? I don't recall the phrase, "Suck my cock" entering 
the conversation, and I don't have a sign around my neck that 
reads, "Please, You Homosexuals, Suck My Cock." 

      I've got nothing against homosexuals. Let them be free to 
do their gay thing in peace, I say. But when they start sucking 
my cock, I've got a real problem. 

      Then there was the time I was hiking through the woods and 
came across a rugged-looking, blond-haired man in his early 30s. 
He seemed straight enough to me while we were bathing in that 
mountain stream, but, before you know it, he's sucking my cock! 

      What is it with these homos? Can't they control their 
sexual urges? Aren't there enough gay cocks out there for them 
to suck on without them having to target normal people like me? 

      Believe me, I have no interest in getting my cock sucked 
by some queer. But try telling that to the guy at the beach 
club. Or the one at the video store. Or the one who catered my 
wedding. Or any of the countless other homos who've come on to 
me recently. All of them sucked my cock, and there was nothing I 
could do to stop them. 

      I tell you, when a homosexual is sucking your cock, a lot 
of strange thoughts go through your head: How the hell did this 
happen? Where did this fairy ever get the idea that I was gay? 
And where did he get those fantastic boots? 

      It screws with your head at other times, too. Every time a 
man passes me on the street, I'm afraid he's going to grab me 
and drag me off to some bathroom to suck my cock. I've even 
started to visualize these repulsive cock-sucking episodes 
during the healthy, heterosexual marital relations I enjoy with 
my wife even some that haven't actually happened, like the 
sweaty, post-game locker-room tryst with Vancouver Canucks 
forward Mark Messier that I can't seem to stop thinking about. 

      Things could be worse, I suppose. It could be women trying 
to suck my cock, which would be adultery and would make me feel 
tremendously guilty. As it is, I'm just angry and sickened. But, 
believe me, that's enough. I don't know what makes these 
homosexuals mistake me for a guy who wants his cock sucked, and, 
frankly, I don't want to know. I just wish there were some way 
to get them to stop. 

      I've tried all sorts of things, but it's all been to no 
avail. A few months back, I started wearing an intimidating-
looking black leather thong with menacing metal studs in the 
hopes that it would frighten those faggots off, but it didn't 
work. In fact, it only seemed to encourage them. Then, I really 
started getting rough, slapping them around whenever they were 
sucking my cock, but that failed, too. Even pulling out of their 
mouths just before ejaculation and shooting sperm all over their 
face, chest, and hair seemed to have no effect. What do I have 
to do to get the message across to these swishes? 

      I swear, if these homosexuals don't take a hint and quit 
sucking my cock all the time, I'm going to have to resort to 
drastic measures like maybe pinning them down to the cement 
floor of the loading dock with my powerful forearms and working 
my cock all the way up their butt so they understand loud and 
clear just how much I disapprove of their unwelcome advances. I 
mean, you can't get much more direct than that.

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motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru 
know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a 
sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely 
motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru 
know who is 
a sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a sick and 
lonely motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely 
motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru 
know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a 
sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely 
motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru 
know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a 
sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely 
motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru 
know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a 
sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely 
motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru 
know who is 
a sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a sick and 
lonely motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely 
motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru 
know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a 
sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely 
motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru 
know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a 
sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely 
motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru 
know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a 
sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely 
motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru 
know who is 
a sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a sick and 
lonely motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely 
motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru 
know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a 
sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely 
motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru 
know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a 
sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely 
motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru 
know who is a sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a 
sick and lonely motherfuckeru know who is a sick and lonely 
motherfucker

you are a sick and hated ass hole, u know who. You are a lonly 
old shit head trying to kill this board. Fuck off 

Speaking of lonely...................... 
Grow up a little..........

Fuck this board, Walter. I agree with you. I only tried to bring 
a few laughs. Not this flaming shit. 
      

I agree completely, one thing i wont do is whine about it.  I am 
always so inspired when i read your words. I could read night 
and day.

all shit aside..u have failed miserably in bringing a few 
laughs..just as u have failed miserably in your sex life with 
your mother..it could have been very special..on the bright 
side, walter seems to dig u.

u know who, you wrote the above Walter response. You fail in a 
pathetic and self serving way. Your sexual and insestful poast 
only prove what a sick sorry, stupid ass you are. This board is 
like a sess pool of shit and you are the slime at the very 
bottom. The few that were poasting here that were worth poasting 
to watch in hopes you will die. 
          Nothing personal, but I can't blame them.  

I was blaming you yesterday for egging the idiot on,and you do 
that sometimes,but what the fuck;they'll post their bullshit no 
matter what you,I,or anybody else does.So I apologize for getting 
pissed about it.
 On the plus side,since you brought up Savoy Brown,I went looking 
though my record albums,and found "Lookin In",Foghat"Fool For The 
City",and Humble Pie's"Smokin",ah......the old pops and clicks of 
the vinyl days!

What a Shame!!!

This site was to ask/look @ the terror that was caused.  
Everyone has been bitching and sniping at all of the responses, 
including world events from the 9/11 date.

It's time to look @ the backdrop of this site and disregard the 
juvenile junk and crap that has evolved.  A lot of people have 
stated their opinion about 9/11/01 on this site.  Unfortunately 
it's gone beyond these issues.

  NOW IT'S NOTHING MORE THAN A SITE THAT SOME KID IS RUNNING AND 
GETTING A LAUGH. BECAUSE THEY DO NOT CARE.

Put your opinions about world issues elsewhere.  Look at the 
backdrop and remember......


I was @ the Flight 93 crash site and know........................

I understand, I often try to have a twist to flame so that no 
hard feelings remain. By the time I was done with Justice I 
think we both were laughing to hard to type anymore. Some like 
sister and u know what just bend it too far and that is punk, 
like a 12 year old kid. 
  I still have the original vynal of Led Zepplin's 3 first 
records and they are really scratched up. I was subjecting them 
to RCA's old record player back then and remember taping a penny 
to the tone arm so it wouldnt skip. Later vynal got kept in 
perfect condition as I often put it on tape and only played the 
vynal to do recordings from. My Dual turntable  quartz direct 
drive still gets pulled out & used once & a while. When I know I 
won't have anyone causing it to skip & screw up the record. A 
few cheech & chong records give me dejavu and I find Zinger & 
Evans in the year 25 25 gets right creepy. 
   Unfortunately the Palistine vs Jew battle will never get 
settled. Saddam is fueling it all to keep the heat away from 
him. But even a blind squerrel gets a nut once and a while. Soon 
the Muslims will realize Saddam and Arafat have been screwing 
them and Sharon will find a morter up his ass soon enough. 
Teaching 5 year old kids to become martyers means the children 
of Islam have a very sad future. In the land of Jesus, we see 
all to well now what he tried to stand for. Martyers are the 
worst form of coward. Just one notch above Saddam & Arafat

The worst thing lately is that all the newscasters were 
commenting on the fact that at least with Israel attacking 
Palestinians the suicide bombings have stopped,so maybe Sharon is 
doing something right after all,forgetting that Palestinians have 
televisions also,and immediately the shit starts right back up 
again.Its easy to forget sometimes that the whole world's 
watching CNN.

what is this board about? seems strange

this board is owned by a homo sexual named merlyn..usually very 
insightful reading..when its not being clogged with nonsense..

Anytime you'd like to help out with the unclogging,feel free.

I'm new to this baord and it sure seems like it could use some 
fresh blood.  The previous pages are very interesting.  So to 
get back to the topic at hand I have a question for Muslims.  

Prior to 911 I really had not given any thought to the Muslim 
religion just accepting it as one in a world full of different 
expressions to worship God.  As Christians we have had our fair 
share of Christain nut balls over the years and I really want to 
believe Bin Hidden's interpretation of the religion is truly not 
shared by very many others.  The Muslims I know (few as they 
are) have actually impressed me with what kindness I've seen in 
them.  I have felt that the terrorist attacks have hurt these 
people in the states more than those of us who have lighter 
skins.  

Now I'm paranoid about them as are most people.  At the top of 
one of these pages a Muslim wrote how it is inappropriate to 
blame all Muslims for 911 and I thought he was doing great 
untill he got to the end of his little post and wished death on 
everybody.  Way to go!  

So lets hear from some of the moderate Muslims out there.  Are 
there any?

Not all of us feel the insults are necessary.  Perhaps we can 
just ignore the creative name calling, amusing as it is.  And "u 
know who",(glad I don't) please find a porn site more suited to 
your dialogue.

Sammy

Three faiths from one god - from one man - Abraham. All bound to 
10 commandments... none following or giving such thought.
One answer love and compassion.
All I have read on this board is filthy hateful rhetoric. How can 
we expect peace in the world when you hate you next door 
neighbor.Take a long look at todays "Religions" and see where he 
terror is coming from, yes even here in our own. be it the 
current problems in the Middle East or the Catholic Church.
The Eastern and earth based religions seem to be much more 
civilized than much more of the rest of the world.
In most cases this is a result of us failing to remember 
T.Jeffersons letter by the Danbury Babtists 200 years ago that 
defined the EXACT reason for a separation of church and state.
We have the right to worship as WE CHOOSE without 
condenmnation.If we fail to remember that we may end up in the 
buring times again and you can never be sure who will be next.
Gods bless our Freedoms Peace to you all... esp th

OK.......but how about the freedom to not worship at all?That 
has never been fully explained.

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

OUR SOULS ARE IN DANGER
PLEASE, GOD:
S.O.$ !!

LOL!!! There's money left at Ft.Knox? I figured we'd given that 
all away by now.

my teachings are for sale..though they are a bit pricey..sammy 
that leaves u out..i feel that a moderate muslim would smack u 
in the mouth, because of your paranoia..the fear of living every 
day means you have no courage or bravery..there are places for u 
to hide..try a catholic church

No, it's just li'l old me at Fort Knox. The money was all given 
away "in Gods Name"; I just wondered if he might have some kind 
of piggy-bank to keep it away from that obknoxious Allah!

test test test

Guess my employer punished me for being cheeky!
"youmadeanothermistakenowyoudeservetheduncecap!" slipped in 
unintentionally. 
Was from a previous post and sure NOT meant for you.

where is om/cf..maybe he went back to his favorite gay bar. oh 
well..talk to you later

I was worried that the Curly Fries you promised me a few weeks 
ago were gone! Eternity without them would be unbearable!And I 
hope you remember what the hell I'm talking about,otherwise it'll 
all sound like psychobabble.(not that it doesn't anyway)

did you get those pics of me in my red costume. I left my 
underware off and i was really excited.  I got your pics, very 
nice.

At the very least,you could have explained exactly what the red 
costume was,disreguarding the fact that I don't know where Merlyn 
lives,and vice versa.LOL!!!!

Ara-rat is a terrorist.

There you are!Good to hear from you!I've been worried sick that 
something horrible had happened to you!Thank you so very much for 
keeping us all informed of current issues.

No, today I was at work. Ok, I know you don't know what that is, 
and I don't have time to explain the whole concept to you. In 
short, its the opposite of what you do all day at the public 
library, on the computer, in your trenchcoat from the Salvation 
Army with your homeless gay buddies drooling on your shoulder at 
the pictures of naked children.

oh yeah? where am i then?  i know where your mom is.  do you?  
she's under my desk as i type.  she can't talk right now as she 
is currently occupied.

Now Lenny,as far as any of us know,u know who could be Janet 
Reno.And if you're accepting a bj from Janet Reno's mom,it's 
gonna be real hard to believe you have any self respect 
whatsoever..............LOL!!

she may not be playmate of the year, but she sure is cheap and 
easy! lol!!!!

I wish it was just you and me on this board..on this planet for 
that matter. Just thought id try to make you feel good. u know 
who is so mean.

Well then,you may not need any of my advice,but I have to tell 
you:no matter what happens,DON'T LOOK DOWN!

i'm still waiting for a response to one of my pervious posts.  if 
you tracked me down, surely you can tell me where i am.  
...well..............waiting.............still 
waiting............i didn't think so.  btw, your mom's eye is now 
glued shut.  sorry

I wish we had our own TV show"Two Men And A Planet"LOL!!
I could screw up breakfast,you would yell at me,and then we'd 
spend the next 27 minutes(excluding commericals)kicking our 
dog(you know who{short for:you know who's a fuckin idiot})all 
over the backyard!Sounds great!

i would love to tounge fuck your ass. your pics are so hot.
    whats wrong with walter? 

no one wants to read your shit. so fuck offfff

Try at least to post something slightly believable.

Ya screwed up again! Walter got the pics, remember? Damn, all 
those whiskey bottle beatings are causing brain damage!

u go get em fat girl...by for now

keeping your friends close and your enemies closer walter,nice 
change of tack,watching you's like watching someone walk thru a 
minefield right now

just one wrong step..

gonna be fun watchin you keep this going,just keep whatevers 
left of your wits about you

anytime you'd like to help out with the unclogging?and just what 
exactly was that reply supposed to accomplish? man you tore u 
know who a new asshole there! 

i sent you that one pic of my nuts and ass remember. Or did you 
forget. I hope not:(

u really are slow. maybe because your parents had anal sex in 
front of u..just let it go man..take a deep breath and say its 
alright to be me..

u think your feeble attempt to pit us against each other (posting 
as NC Gal) is fooling anyone?  if that's the best you can do then  
you really are a dimwit.  i should have pulled out of your mom.  
i would like to apologize to the world for bringing in such a 
waste of matter in the world (my high-quality genes didn't 
overcome your mom's sub-human dna structure).

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah........it's 
alright to be me.........................LOL!!!

Dear u know who,
We thank you for attending our NAMCLA meetings.  We are glad 
that you came but there are a few things we would like to go 
over.  In the future could you please wait until the end to make 
love to your cantelope.  It is hard to give a speech when you 
are slapping and humping your cantelope so loud.  Also the salad 
bar is not your own personal naked playground.  Please do not 
touch other peoples plates when they are trying to eat.  Mr. 
Thompson did not appreciate when you took the cucumber off of 
his plate and then attempted to shove it in your ass.  It is 
just not nice.  We expect your membership fee of $35 dollars IN 
DOLLAR BILLS next time you come.  Ploping all of the money in 
quarters out of your ass is not an acceptable form of payment 
and no we will not swip your credit card between your ass 
cheeks.  It just doesn't work that way.  We thank you again for 
attending.

keeping your friends close and your enemies closer walter,nice 
                change of tack,watching you's like watching 
someone walk thru a minefield right now just one wrong step..
gonna be fun watchin you keep this going,just keep whatevers 
left of your wits about you __________________________________

 My one and only fear on this board is boredom.I really have no 
clue as to what you're talking about.                            
         

                 
                                   

u know who


























































can do u know what









































































u know where

































































u know when
































































































when you were born the doctor took one look at you and slapped 
your mother!
then he spent the day at the zoo looking for your father in the 
monkey cage, your tail had him worried that you might have been 
the missing link!

     But after looking at your mother a second time, He 
remembered he was a veternarian and apologised to your owner. 

Dear u know who,
We thank you for attending our NAMCLA meetings.  We are glad 
that you came but there are a few things we would like to go 
over.  In the future could you please wait until the end to make 
love to your cantelope.  It is hard to give a speech when you 
are slapping and humping your cantelope so loud.  Also the salad 
bar is not your own personal naked playground.  Please do not 
touch other peoples plates when they are trying to eat.  Mr. 
Thompson did not appreciate when you took the cucumber off of 
his plate and then attempted to shove it in your ass.  It is 
just not nice.  We expect your membership fee of $35 dollars IN 
DOLLAR BILLS next time you come.  Ploping all of the money in 
quarters out of your ass is not an acceptable form of payment 
and no we will not swipe your credit card between your ass 
cheeks.  It just doesn't work that way.  We thank you again for 
attending.

canada ain't shit!

When yugoslavian forces were doing the exact same thing that the
Israeli army is doing now.
NATO stepped in crushing Yugoslavias army and infrastructure.
Why does NATO not do the same for the Palestinians?

Es generally known ven men talk excessively of sex fantasies sey 
are not getting any. Ven men talk of homosexual fantasy sis can 
be an attempt to seek the male attention sey were not given from 
thier fathers as small boys.  Sis is a cry for love, even if sis 
attention is negative.  So boys and girls, I leave you vith this 
thought, Do you want everybody to know how little sex you have 
in your life, Huh?    

i think it wouldn't be as easy to stop israel as is was for them 
extradite (spelling?) milosevic.

Your pussy lips hang below your knees.
LOL!!!!!!!

no can do.  i'm too busy with your mudda!

Israel is pissed and has plenty of nuclear warheads? 

We could stop supplying them with arms for a start.

the trouble is, they both are guilty of atrocities against each 
other.  if one is punished, then the other should be as well.

What is stopping Israel from doing what they want in the middle 
east.
It seems to me that nobody can keep them in check if they don,t 
even listen to American calls for a withdrawl from Palestinian 
territory.

I think a U.N force will have to be deployed to the region
if any deal is made.
These two groups have a  bad record at backing out of agreements 
and policing themselves.

I find it hard to condemn Iraq when they have neighbours like 
Israel.
It seems to me that in todays world that if you don,t carry a 
big stick.
Your country has no real security.   

Canada goose bites off toronto teens cheek.

When does hunting season start.

I need to get a license.

It scares me to think about the size of our armed forces.
With our tough gun laws and puny armed forces.
If we were to be attacked today.
The pea shooters we have wouldn,t stop shit.
I think Canadians should have the right to bear arms.
    

So you're saying you'd like Canada to be more like the U.S?

I think its damn arrogant of the U.S. to tell Israel not to 
defend their citizens from daily terrorism when the U.S. 
traveled our troops to the other side of the earth to do so 
after one attack on U.S. soil.
Israel has not shown aspirations of taking over the middle east. 
All they've done is defend their country against repeated 
attacks from the surrounding Arab countries.

the mideast violence is a prime example of why i feel religion is 
ridiculous.  israelis believe they are the chosen people to 
inherit the world.  muslims believe they are the chosen ones.  
see the problem here?  this is the 21st century (supposedly the 
age of reason and enlightenment). these religious fanatics (not 
just islam) refuse to use the brains that 'god' gave them to see 
just how childish humans really are.  where did religion come 
from?  it came from us.  humans.  religion is something concocted 
from us to help us deal with the inevitable.  it is a form of 
control over mass population.  something like that would 
certainly come in handy for a ruling regime thousands of years 
ago.  i have nothing against those who practice their religion.  
i do have problem with it when it infringes on human rights and 
when it hinders the progress of humanity.

Instead of bearing arms. Arm the bears! I don't know much about 
Canada's gun laws. Whats the deal up yonder?

Its because they're "leasing"all their tanks and planes from 
us.Their maintinence agreement states that they can't take the 
equipment out of the country unless war has been declared.
 U.S.A.Rent 2 Own!

There's a big difference between religious and religious 
fanatic.The fanatics are unable to tell the difference between 
kneeling down and bending over.

boredoms your only fear walter?impressive,cept when the likes of 
you know who try to run roughshod over the board of course,dont 
know,its these timely absences of yours.makes a person wonder 
you know.any replies to such jerks just seem a little half 
hearted,but your right of course im sure its nothing,shall 
perish the thought

if its boredom you fear,advise you steal yourself to be afraid, 
to be very afraid.

Those rent to own deals are such a a$$ screwin'. You pay twice 
as much and there are so many strings attatched.

-hand guns illegal
-all rifles must be licensed(huge licensing fee per gun)
-I own a 22 and keep it in a safe at my parents house.
I have not registered it.
If caught I could receive a huge fine or jail time.

U know who, I do sometime read your post and has reply you with 
symphathy with sincerity thinking you are opening up your 
problem to us but learn later that it was one of your prank. 
Anyway I believe you can reply intelligently too if you want. If 
you are a gay, so be it but I really do hope that you would not 
fill this board with your rubbish. I for one is not interested 
in reading. In this board you can be anyone but the language is 
always the same.

Just remember the backdrop of this board as someone mention 
above and think about those people who have died and what is 
going on in the world today. You can be a Christian, Muslims, 
Hindu, Buddhist or others, reply your view, opinion and 
suggestion.

I hope you do not take my advise as an offense and if ever read 
my past post, you know that I meant well. You take care. God 
Bless

Last year canadian police forces announced a cash for guns 
campaign.
They had to quickly halt the campaign to organize it better 
after people started to show up at local police stations with 
rifles in hand.
LOL!!!!

We tried arming the bears.
They were a little bite trigger happy after waking up from 
hibernating.

So how the Isreal is going to withdraw. Another suicide bomb. As 
I say Mr Bush and the United Nations should understand this. 
They should ask the Arab Nations to gurantee that there will be 
no more suicide bomb attack, then you can see the withdrawal of 
Isreal troop

About the hold up in Nativity Church. The Soldiers are not 
attacking the Church but surrounding it to capture those 200 
Muslims militants hiding inside. This is not good. Other 
militants may use this same tactic to escape arrest. I just pray 
that these Militants inside the church learn something about the 
church and surrender. I pray for all the brave priests inside 
the church.

It shows by the latest suicide bombing that the latest 
incursions by the Israeli army into Palestinian territory
has done nothing more than fanned the flames of hatred between 
the two groups.
 

i understand your point.  i also understand you mean well.  i've 
read your past posts and you make a lot of sense.  i agree with 
most of what you say as well.  i also like to cut up and poke 
fun.  that's just me.  i've been serious for too long and need to 
blow off some steam.  this board gives me the best of both 
worlds.  just one thing though.  i  am lenny.  no more, no less.  
u know who, daddy, etc. are someone else.  not me.  peace!

I don,t want to be a part of the states.
Us taxpayers up here really value our military and economic
support from the US.
But what if someday Inuit woman,Beaver pelts and bad Canadian
movies become a huge commodity in the states.
We would not be able to defend these luxuries from being taken
by the US. 

Are you the one tying innocent young girls to railroad tracks as 
well? LOL!! 

With all the hunting and wilderness in Canada gun ownership 
would seem to be a neccessity. Maybe the goverment see's it that 
way to. It's all about money, same as the states. The 
polititions pass all these laws on top of laws claiming their 
only concern is the safety of the population, when we all know 
its about the money. Why pass legislation when whats already 
there cannot begin to be enforced? They want more money.

I don't hunt anymore and the guns I have are something less than
'sporting' arms. Since the Sept. 11 attacks gun sales have been 
brisk in the U.S. As was pointed out to me and Walter very 
rudely once, a citizen with a gun isnt going to shoot a 
highjacked airliner out of the sky. Duh. But I believe in being 
prepared to protect your family.

they cannot possibly hate each other any more than they already 
do.  the last thousand years have been remarkable for inventions, 
technology, art, science, etc.  yet with all of this progress and 
our growth of collective knowledge, humans, emotionally and 
empatheticly (spelling?) have not grown since the stone age.  we 
need to focus on mental and moral growth if we are not to destroy 
each other.  

in other words, humans are nothing more than very smart cavemen 
right now.

UGH! UGH!

lol

where u at man!?  out looking for your mom?  i know where she 
is!!

Don't go getting him started again.... It might be past his 
bedtime...LOL

Have your mother fuck your pussy, Leslie.  She's more of aman 
than you'll ever be.  and more woman than you'll ever get..      

sorry, but i just couldn't help myself.  had to see if he was 
really gone.  you're right though, i should let him sleep.  he's 
gotta get up early to catch the short bus to school!

that didn't take long!! lol!

You are the mole on osamas ASS.
How does it feel to have a camel slamming up against you day in 
and day out. 

you really should go back to bed. never mind the noises coming 
from your mom's bedroom.  it's just me.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you naked? 

good night everyone. (even you u know who) i'm checking out for 
now.

Cease and desist. Withdraw from your mum's bum immediatly, if 
not sooner.

Go back to bes the short bus will be there  bright and eairly...

know,its these timely absences of yours.makes a person wonder 
you know.any replies to such jerks just seem a little half       
hearted,but your right of course im sure its nothing,shall       
perish the thought if its boredom you fear,advise you steal 
yourself to be afraid,  to be very afraid.  
                  
          From: Walter 
                                            To: Spyte 
                                   Date: Mon Dec 3 18:51:21 2001 
                                            Message:             
          From: Spy 
                                        To: om/cf & friends 
               Subject: Good ta see ya---I was hoping ya would 
remember the"pinto" rap om/cf 
                                   Date: Tue Apr 9 21:53:57 2002 
                                            Message:      

                                             To: Spy 
                                          Subject: Cars 
                                   Date: Tue Apr 9 21:38:38 2002 
                                            Message:

                   Its always a good idea to give one's vehicle 
the once over 
                  before turning the key. Such things as 
dangeling wires could 
                indicate a possible serious problem. Parked cars 
left alone are 
                             a 'accident' waiting to happen. 
LOL!!!

                                         Hi there, Spy.
                
    I didn't fear you then,and I don't fear you now.             
                      

the mole is nothing more than a cheap imitation...suck on that 
for awhile..as for me..u will know when i respond to that select 
few..as for the above..well..

Geeeeez. Just a little freindly banter with an old freind!

r u going to make love to your fat self tonight..u should i 
hear fat people really turn u on.  talk at ya tommorow.  :)

From: 
                                               To: 
                                   Date: Tue Apr 9 20:00:17 2002 
                                            Message:

                             Wallyworld, you are soooooo 
busted!lol!

 Only two people ever referred to me by that name.After 6 months 
on the board,neither of you had the courage to come after me.And 
I am still more than willing to slit your throats.LOL!!A I still 
tell you:bring the kids....it'll be a real party.

Am I the jerk?

He made serious threats,and unlike the board,I kept the posts 
from Nov.17-19,in case he was stupid enough to show up,and I had 
to kill him.

What kind of question is that?

DUM DA DUM DUM DA DA DA DUM DA DUM DUM DA DA DA
DO DEE DOO DOOO DOO DOO DOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

you sound so stupid when you talk

I sure do,don't I?

Went out for a friends birthday the other night.
Were all sitting at this table in our usual haunt.
One of the guys notices a chick sitting across from us with her 
legs open and no panties on.
She ended up being a hooker that my buddy Alex hired for
forty bucks to sit accross from us.
Alex needs to find a better way to spend his money.
  

were u picked on as a young homo-sexual..just get over it and 
speak your mind..but not to much..ok big guy

What name should we give to this character?

i know how drunk u were that night..and that hooker happens to 
be your mother..dont freak out man, 40 bucks is 40 bucks..at 
least she skipped the crack house that night..peace

Are you sure that wasnt 'you know who' across the way. Low 
lights I hope! Was there a terrible stench in the air? Kinda 
like a cross between a healthy shit and a dead racoon?

nil nisi bonum

De mortuis nil nisi bonum

Buttfuckis Maximus

I try to but, sometimes it's hard to be kind.....

So other than the unpleasentness,has your job gotten back to 
full 40 again?

Tu es stultior quam asinus

You're smarter than you let on.

Smelt like a Afghani womans snatch on a hot july day.

Scary isn't it......LOL

Caput tuum in ano est. 

Mange Ma Marde

Yes he does....LOL

Not yet, but the off time is nice. The paycheck don't look so 
good but I've formed a 'corporation' at work three weeks ago at 
work, 1000 chances strong now to win the 200 million in the Big 
Game lottery! LOL!!

Not that suprising......to last here for 6 months you have to be 
crazy,smart as hell,tough as nails,or a combination of the three.

Toronto Gay Catholic school student sues school for not letting 
him bring boyfriend to prom.

I probably on the crazy and tough as nails side, but mostly I'm 
just a smart-ass....LOL 

And we come back to the.....smarter than you let on bit again.
 And a liitle too quick with the comebacks!LOL!!

I used to think I was halfway intelligent,and then I found out I 
couldn't spell little!I can't believe I screwed that up!

well I've never been considered a "dumb Blond"... LOL

maybe his dress was too short...........

I have the same problem, my keyboard can't spell either... LOL 

But blond?My hair used to be brown,but it has had a change of 
heart,and wants to be gray now.

Nothing wrong with gray hair, I'm sure you've earned every one 
of them... LOL

Now I'm at the age where my brain tells me to say...turn that 
shit down.....you call THAT music?.......when I was your age 
I...........you're goin out lookin like THAT?............and I 
try to remember how huch I hated hearin that shit.

I love COUGARS!!!

No matter you try to fight it, all those words are going to come 
out of your mouth. I still can't believe I hear my parents 
voices coming out of my mouth... LOL

Raising four boys will do that to you... LOL

how can they say its there land when there is no palistin the so 
called palistinans are made up of people from jordan and egypt 
wich stole the land in the 1940 and israel took it back in the 
1960 so the palistinans should just go back to there own 
countrys oooooooo wait jordan and egypt wont let them come back
for all the bitching the arabs do they wont even help them out.
So if anybody thinks isreal is doing wrong go fuck yourself

I have a niece that lives in Bellevue NE. Is that anywhere near 
you? 

Have you ever seen a history book?You don't have the slightest 
fuckin clue as to what you're talkin about.

About 10-15 miles away.

OK. What can I saay, she's an Air Force brat. decided to stay 
there. married with kids now...

I try so hard to fuck myself, but it just wont reach.
Any suggestions?

Nearly everyone that lives there is military.All the police are 
ex-military,and it shows.They don't play around.

We have a big military family here. Ex-Marine, Ex-Air Force, now 
my son is in the Army...

Hey Walter---my post to OM/CF yesterday included the word 
"pinto" because I knew he would identify the past exchange 
of post we had.
It wasn't an attack on you. We both settled that issue before.
As far as the nameless poster you refered to------it ain't me 
Walter.

Well, I think I'm going to call it a night, talk to "Ya All" 
tomorrow... 

I was in the Army for about 300 years.LOL!3 years,and I was told 
that because of me,they were thinking about bringing back the 
charge of skylarking(inability to take anything seriously)LOL!
 Is your son back home?

Dear u know who,
We thank you for attending our NAMCLA meetings.  We are glad 
that you came but there are a few things we would like to go 
over.  In the future could you please wait until the end to make 
love to your cantelope.  It is hard to give a speech when you 
are slapping and humping your cantelope so loud.  Also the salad 
bar is not your own personal naked playground.  Please do not 
touch other peoples plates when they are trying to eat.  Mr. 
Thompson did not appreciate when you took the cucumber off of 
his plate and then attempted to shove it in your ass.  It is 
just not nice.  We expect your membership fee of $35 dollars IN 
DOLLAR BILLS next time you come.  Plopping all of the money in 
quarters out of your ass is not an acceptable form of payment 
and no we will not swipe your credit card between your ass 
cheeks.  It just doesn't work that way.  We thank you again for 
attending.

Yes, He's back in the states but, I don't think for very long.

http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/l/c/lchaplin/unkarock/flag.
htm

where's merlyn the fag did he squirm away like a bitch..no 
wonder all that retarted smack he would talk..he is the biggest 
bitch boy i have ever heard..please become a suicide bomber at 
your next thanksgiving get together.....go out with a bang

I thought we had settled that issue also,but if you look at that 
sequence of posts,and put yourself in my shoes,you'll see where 
those suspicions come from.I know some people still don't trust 
me much because of my early posts,and my reasons for doing it 
might suck,but I did save all those posts back then just in case 
it got"real"serious,and there were posts that were death 
threats, I can't go back and erase it all,and I don't know if I 
would,but I've explained myself,and thats all I can do.There are 
innocent people who live with me,and I must defend them from 
anything or anyone who might harm them.
 The one regret I have in making those posts,is that through my 
smart mouth I might have made some goofball pissed enough to come 
after me,and maybe that wasn't very intelligent on my part,since 
it might have put the people I care about in danger.
 If I've accused you wrongly,I apologize.

But looking back,if"Walter"were saying some of that shit to me 
back then face to face,I'd have busted him in the mouth as hard 
as I could.LOL!

you just need to shut your fuckin mouth..or someone will shut it 
for you. punkmotherfucker

That's probably true.But I'm sure it won't be any gutless 
pussyboy like you.

my dog has got a really big cock. I just keep staring at it. 
What if i were to taste it? even suck it

its mr.     gutless/nameless again walter,get it right,no i aint 
spy and i aint om/cf,neither of which have a problem with 
you.thats fine.like to be convinced by your more friendly chatty 
side in evidence at present.its just that some things just dont 
add up about you.i dont think using multiple personas would be 
beyond you either.stringing people along all in the interests of 
eleviating your boredom naturally.unfair criticism?probably,but 
you couldnt expect anything less after the stunts youve pulled 
on this board.eccentrics like you,and crazies like u know who 
have only accelerated its decline,not what you had in mind?too 
bad,like i said,prepare yourself for your worst fear.prepare to 
be bored very bored.may check back here in say a year or so,to 
find you,the only one on it wailing   the board is dead!.funny,u 
know who said that self same thing.like two peas in a pod.how 
nice.

My workday stops 6 hours earlier than yours, up here we have 
Greenwich Time, so I did'nt get to read your concerned post 
about the Heavenly Curly Fries up till now. Sure I remember, I 
think I told you that I would have them multiplied especially 
for you, since you sang that Monkee-song so perfectly!!! 
Promises are promises. 
What the hell do you mean with psychobabble, I'm sure this is 
the serious stuff!
Some people seem to be very upset about the changeing nature of 
this board. Personally I think it would be pathetic if things 
went on the way they did at the start. 
Of course as a Sponsor i welcome a break once in a while, and I 
still have a personal message to get across!
I keep my own code of conduct, but don't mind when a lot of 
other people don't,everybody has moments wwhen he or she is 
board stiff, but that doesn't mean this board is dead.  

Do you fart when you fuck your mother? or did she really hear 
you say you love her 

mr.gutless/nameless here     walter complained that the board 
was dead on one occasion four months ago.you may recall.but it 
struggles on as will walter im sure.with u know who saying the 
same thing the other day,it was just a case of deja vu.an 
unfortunate coincidence no doubt.

As the message board turns.
OR
As the vomit spews.

no i aint spy and i aint om/cf,neither of which have a problem 
with you.thats fine. __________________________________________

 I didn't accuse om/cf of anything.
 
                  
                

The board isn't dead, you are.

My dog? A black lab so old & ugly such thoughts are not possible,
well, excepting you know who.
Im at work and bored. Where's all that morning entertainment 
that used to be on here? Let the bashing begin!

HEBRON, West Bank, Apr 11, 2002 (AP WorldStream via COMTEX) -- A 
suspected Palestinian suicide bomber was killed Thursday when 
the explosives he was wearing blew up in this West Bank city, 
apparently by accident. 

A number of bystanders were injured, Palestinian witnesses said. 

Body parts were scattered over a hundred yards and nearby cars 
and shop front were covered with blood. 

The explosion took place near a taxi stand where cabs leave for 
cities in Israel, such as Jerusalem, Haifa and Beersheba. 

Palestinians have carried out several deadly suicide bomb 
attacks in these cities in the past 18 months of fighting. 

It appeared that the bomb was set off prematurely. 



Copyright 2002 Associated Press, All rights reserved

 
 

Alight by the glow, I stare deep in the crimson of the flame. A 
puff of my pipe and a swirl of light smoke, and I sink deep into 
thought. Dancing upon mothers breast in a dance of hells fire, 
only to see there eyes hollow and the sunken look of one so 
hopeless and deprived. So removed from their mothers love, they 
cannot hear her call for sweet peace. 
  I reach for the long arm of wooden spender and sparks fly as I 
stir the deep glow of embers. My glance across the circle stones 
finds the altar and my mind again opens to a view. Arms 
outstretched and calling and many curled and kissing mothers 
breast. A song spoken and a prayer for an ideal so far from them 
that they are lost. While all the while in their mothers arms. 
  I set my pipe down and feel mother s cool firm life beneath my 
feet and her loving energy reach through me giving calm and 
assurance. One long breath and I bank the fire, wishing, hoping 
for the lost to hear mother whisper, please come home.

Merlyn'02

you can't even in your dreams....................

suspected Palestinian suicide bomber ....the explosives he was 
wearing blew up ....apparently by accident.

Ahhhhh.....political correctness. I love it. 

Oh yes I can.  Cantelopes provide much arousing pleasures that 
gets me off very quickly.

remote control.......Knda like a someone used their garage door 
opener & hit the freq. of the suckers detonator. 

What do you do at work?

Remember Pat Travers, Boom Boom out go the lights?

Mechanical engineering. Packaging machinery. But I look at it as 
putting cheap labor illegal aliens out of work so they can suck 
the welfare system dry. We all do our part. LOL!

nice

mr.gutless/nameless here   do allow me to rephrase.you dont 
bother anybody except me walter.is that better?now,i reckon that 
about covers all the bases.

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

i got nothin against u, though i know who u are..the dead board 
thing was written by 1 of my imposters, not me...i do have a goal

Good one.  I laughed out loud on that one.
"Plop, plop, fizz, fiz, oh what a relief it is!"
ALLAH-SELTZER

the board is not dead, you are.

i got nothin against u, though i know who u are..the dead board 
thing was written by 1 of my imposters, not me...i do have a goal

who am I?

the boards not dead, you are

     is that all your inbred mind could come up with.

             im soooooo scared

why that would ruin your little game with walter..and i would 
not want to spoil that..i find it amusing..thanks for the crazy 
description..taken as a compliment

the board is not dead, you are

who am I since you think you know or is that too hard of a 
question for your inbred mind?

"Hey! little girl, come here! that's it now here strap this on, 
you are now a member of hamas! No it's ok you only need to be 5 
years old now, we recrute very young now. Here, see the pretty 
red button? good. All you have to do is walk into that restraunt 
full of mean & ugly Jews and say praise Allah and then push the 
red button. That's it, now go. Good girl."
  "but Mr. are you sure this is going to make them happy?"
"Yes they will be saved in the glory of Allah and live in happy 
land"
   "Oh! I see, that sounds wonderful! I want to go to happy land 
too I think I'll push the pretty red button right now!"
   "No No little Girl! Not N..........."
           Boom Boom out go the lights!
   

"It's just hard to find good help these days" "tell me about it!"

See, I told you girls just want to have fun!!

I wondered what happened to the soap: "As the Dradel Turns"!
Sad that it's so funny, funny that it's so sad. Looking forward 
to the next episode... 

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

"Finger-lickin' good."
PALESTINE FRIED CHICKENS

you know who?   hello

its mr.gutless/nameless     hey,we re all enemies here.you can 
call me gutless.nameless sounds well,a little formal.you know 
who i am?please remind me who i am.cause i havent got a clue.it 
should however be fairly obvious to many just who i am.so,youve 
got an imposter?!i ask you,just what is the world coming to?
youve got a goal?world domination perhaps?.or something more 
sinister and infinitely more rewarding.board domination.most of 
the content youve uttered is probably some of sickest filth ever 
written online.and before you say it.no thats not supposed to be 
a compliment.whatever your goal maybe youve taken an 
unfathamoble way of attempting to somehow achieve it.but each to 
their own i suppose.this board is rapidly deteriorating into 
wierdcentral.com.if youve got a serious point to make.i suggest 
you make it real soon.

http://www.knology.net/~carlos/redneck.htm

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

"Extinct is forever."
ENEMIES OF BEASTS

I CANT HAVE FUCKING BUBBLES!!!IM THE BLOODY FUCKIN PRINCE OF 
DARKNESS GODAMIT!! NO FUCKING BUBBLES!!

Uh, Im sorry mates. Wrong bloody message board. Well, carry on 
then. Cherio.

LOL!! The Beverly Hillbillys. Thats one of them thar outdoor 
dinin' tables, complete with pot passin' sticks and the 'cement 
pond' out back. No sign of Ellie May though.

I still have Osama locked up in my back yard.
Tickets going for twenty bucks a pop to beat him with my hockey 
stick.

this board does nothing more than create the same thing that 
took down your precious towers

Do I get double the fun if I pay $40?

it is the demise of this board(and all that it stands for)
spreading worldwide hatred from the minds of lonely fuckin 
morons.
             

===========================

The Muslim government in Sudan had imposed Islamic law 
in 1993. Over 2 million Sudanese Christians and animists 
have been killed and enslaved since then and few people 
even know about it. For years in Indonesia, the Philippines 
and East Timor, Christians have been massacred by 
Muslims. Coptic Christians in Egypt whose religion arrived 
prior to Islam, have been slaughtered by fundamentalist 
Muslims. The authorities have done little to stop them. Arab 
Christians are oppressed by Muslims in their own lands as 
are Christians in many Arab lands such as Syria, Iraq, and 
Lebanon. Churches and Christian homes in Nigeria are 
being burned and Christians are murdered by militant 
Muslims because they are unbelievers. In Saudi Arabia it is 
illegal to be anything but a Muslim. The death penalty is 
given if one's conscience turns him to another religion, 
especially Christianity. Just recently, a man in China was 
charged with importing Bibles--the punishment for this 
horrible act?--death.

Harvard's Samuel P. Huntington warned us of deluding 
ourselves about the true nature of the Islamic threat.  Some 
have argued that the West does not have problems with 
Islam but only with violent Islamist extremists,  Huntington 
wrote.  Fourteen hundred years of history demonstrate 
otherwise. 

=====================

Mohammed said,  The last hour will not come before the 
Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them.  (Mishkat 
Al Masabih Sh.M. Ashraf pp.147, 721, 810-11, 1130) It is the 
Hadith that explains the Koran, it is their commentary on the 
writings. Hadith, the body of traditions relating to 
Mohammed and now supplemental to the Koran: He (Abu 
Hurayah) reported the messenger of Allah as saying: The 
last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews 
and the Muslims kill them, so that Jews will hide behind 
stones and trees and the Stone and the tree will say, O 
Muslim, O servant of God! There is a Jew behind me; come 
and kill him. The only exception will be the box-thorn for it is 
one of the trees of the Jews. (Sahih of Muslim, quoted by 
Israel and the Prophecies of Al Koran by Ali Akbar, Bismi 
Publishers 1992, p.44)

What does it mean when Muslims say they are for peace?  
George Braswell, Jr. (B.D., Yale; Ph.D., U of NC) who lived in 
Iran for seven years, defines the word  peace  from a 
Muslim perspective:  The world of Islam must conquer 
and rule over those of ignorance and disobedience . The 
peace of the world cannot be secured until the peoples 
come under the rule and protection of Islam.  (What You 
Need To Know About Islam and Muslims, p. 87)

======================


According to the Encyclopedia of Religion, Allah 
corresponded to the Babylonian god Baal, and Arabs knew 
of him long before Mohammed worshipped him as the 
supreme God. Before Islam, the Arabs recognized many 
gods and goddesses and each tribe had their own deity. 
There were also nature deities. Allah was the god of the 
local Quarish tribe, which was Mohammed's tribe before he 
invented the religion of Islam to lead his people out of their 
polytheism. Allah was then known as the Moon God, who 
had 3 daughters who were viewed as intercessors for the 
people into Allah. Their names were Al-at, Al-uzza, and 
Al-manat, which were three goddesses; the first two 
daughters of Allah had names which were feminine forms 
of Allah. Hubal was the chief God of the Kaaba among the 
other 360 deities. Hubal was a statue likeness of a man 
whose body was made of red precious stones whose arms 
were made of gold. (Reference Islam George Braswell Jr.)


=======================


History has shown that Mecca and the holy stone al-Kaaba 
were holy sites for pre-Islamic pagan Arabs. The Kaaba in 
Mecca was formerly named Beit-Allah meaning House of 
Allah.

The Koran tells us that Mohammed drove the other idols 
away and that he was the messenger for the one and only 
God. He kept the Kaaba as a holy, sacred place and 
confirmed that the black stone had the power to take away 
sins. He obligated every believer to make a pilgrimage to 
the stone at least once in his lifetime. (Sura 22:26-37) No 
Old Testament saint ever journeyed to the Kaaba and 
kissed its black stone.  Ironically, the Bible uses black 
stones to indicate guilt and white stones to indicate purity 
and innocence:



=======================

hello everyone!  it's good to be back.  what's all the bickering 
about?

Im sorry for calling you guys lonely fuckin morons. You guys are 
my only freinds. We all lash out at the ones we love I guess. 
Its been a bad day for me. Mom got hit while flaging down a car 
last night and its serious. Dad got drunk at the hospital when 
he found out moms crotch had to be amputated. He hit a doctor 
with the whiskey bottle and is in jail again. Without moms 
crotch things sure seem hopeless. Thanks for being there for me 
you guys.

Love,
you know who

i forgive thee

Just what day in the walk of war does it become world war? And 
by the same, just who declares it so? By what end is the means 
of power and by what end is that power control? Who's war is it 
and with whom? 
  Where we find ourselves is far from what we are. We are in the 
age of light, unable to see. We talk of peace, unable to stop 
the killing. We burn the earth, unable to extinguish the flame. 
We talk of religion, so far from knowing our faith we cannot 
communicate it. 
  As we approach our own demise, we know not where in the path 
we are. In a struggle to compromise we are compromised and in 
our hope to live we die each day. With each horrific end we see 
yet another beginning. And each beginning we sew another fate of 
lost understanding. 
  A dark cloud in the light of passion, and a day yet to see the 
dawn...

Is monotheism not totalitarian? Yes it is. And by definition, 
bigotry in context when applied as a governing faction. If we 
only had a father, and no mother, we would all be clones. By 
definition monotheism is inclusive only of man and his goal in 
the afterlife. It is control and it is a lie.

After reading todays posts, I had to laugh at Mr. or is it Ms. 
gutless/nameless. It's apparent they (he or she) have a problem 
with you! Seems obvious that it's consuming their life, Maybe 
they need to seek profesional help...You would think that they 
would be brave enough to give their name. We have all had our 
moments on this board and said things that maybe we shouldn't of 
but, lets face it we get over it and go on with our lives. Well 
all except foe one or two, looks like they didn't....

The Testimony of Walid              

My name is Walid, I was born in Bethlehem, Israel. On the 
day that I was born it was one of the holiest days to Islam, 
that day was the birthday of the Muslim prophet Mohammad 
(Al-Mauled Al-Nabawi). This was an honor to my father, for 
that he named me (Walid) which relates to the Arabic word 
(Mauled) in English (The Birth), to always remember the 
birthday of the Muslim prophet.

My father was a Palestinian Muslim who taught English and 
Islamic studies in the Holy Land, and my mother was an 
American who married my father during his studies in the 
United States in the year of 1956. 

Fearing the American way of life with two children and while 
my mother was pregnant with me, my parents left to live in 
Israel in 1960 which was called Jordan at that time, and 
when they arrived to Bethlehem I was born. As my father 
changed jobs we moved to Saudi Arabia then back to the 
Holy Land this time to the lowest place on Earth, Jericho. 

I did not forget the first song I learned in school just before 
the six day war titled "Arabs our beloved and Jews our 
dogs." I used to wonder at that time who the Jews were, but 
repeated with the rest of the kids the words without any 
knowledge of the meaning. 

As I grew up in the Holy Land I lived through several battles 
between the Arabs and the Jews, the first battle (while we 
lived in Jericho) was the Six Day War when the Jews 
captured old Jerusalem and the rest of Palestine. This was 
a great disappointment to Arabs and Muslims worldwide. 

The American Council in Jerusalem came just before the 
war to evacuate all the Americans in the area, since my 
mother was an American, but my father refused and turned 
them down because he loved his country. I still remember 
many things during the war; the noise of the bombing and 
shelling that went on day and night for six days, the looting 
of stores and houses by the Arabs in Jericho and people 
running to cross the Jordan river from fear of the Israelis. 

The war was called the six day war because it was won in 
six days and on the seventh day a Rabbi by the name of 
Goren blew the ram's horn on the wailing wall in Jerusalem 
declaring the victory. Many Jews claim that this was a 
parallel to Joshua when he went around the walls of Jericho 
six times, then on the seventh day seven times, and on that 
day the priests blew the trumpets and everyone shouted 
with one voice and took the city. To my father in Jericho it 
seemed that the walls have crumbled on him, during the 
war he was always listening to the Jordanian radio station, 
he used to say that the Arabs are wining the war, but he was 
listening to the wrong station, the Israeli station who was 
announcing the truth of their soon coming victory, instead 
my father chose to believe the Arabs who claimed that the 
Israelis are promoting propaganda. 

Later on we moved back to Bethlehem and my father 
enrolled us in an Anglican-Lutheran school as they had a 
better English course, my brother, sister and myself where 
the only Muslims in the school, and being half Americans 
teachers would beat us and students would laugh at us, 
when the Bible class started I would leave the class and 
remained outside waiting, one day I walked in the Bible 
class and the class 'bully' stood up to fight, he shouted "we 
don't want this half American and Muslim to be here", I 
refused to get out and the Lady who was teaching the class 
asked me to sit down, since then I changed the schools 
policy and for the first time the school allowed a Muslim to 
study the Bible, and for the next three years I studied it 
despite all the mocking. 

Later my father transferred me to the Government school 
where I grew in the faith of Islam, in which I was fed the idea 
that one day a fulfillment of an ancient prophecy by the 
Muslim prophet Mohammed will come to pass, this 
prophecy foretold a battle in which the Holy Land would be 
recaptured and the elimination of the Jews would take place 
in a massive slaughter. 

This prophecy in fact is documented in Mohammed's Book 
of Traditions which states the following:
 


"The day of judgment shall not come to pass until a tribe of 
Muslims defeat a tribe of Jews". 


When Mohammed was asked of the place this will take 
place he said: "In Jerusalem and the surrounding nations". 

During my youth like my father I was always tuned to Islam 
and what our Muslim teachers taught. Believing in 
Muhammad's prophecy I offered my life to 'Jihad' or 'Holy 
War' as the only means to obtain either victory or martyrdom. 
In Islam martyrdom is the only way you can ensure salvation 
and entry to heaven especially since Allah and his prophet 
Mohammed promised it, as the Quran states it: 

 


"Do not think of whom are killed for the cause of Allah (in a 
Holy War), to be dead but living with their Lord receiving his 
blessing". 


During school riots against what we called the Israeli 
occupation I would prepare speeches, slogans, and write 
anti-Israel graffiti in an effort to provoke students to throw 
rocks at the armed Israeli soldiers. We shouted "No peace 
or negotiations with the enemy", "Our blood and our souls 
we sacrifice to Arafat", "Our blood and our souls we sacrifice 
to Palestine", "Death to the Zionists" etc.... 

I vowed to fight my Jewish enemy believing that I was doing 
God's will on earth, and was true to my word as I 
participated in many riots against the Israeli army, always 
trying to inflict harm to them and by all means and methods I 
could come up with. I would start and participate in any riot I 
can make, in schools, streets, and even on the holiest place 
(the Temple mount site) in Jerusalem called by Arabs 
(Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa), and all through high school I would 
always be one of the first to provoke a riot. 

Many others got involved in terror tactics against the Jews 
using bombs and armed assaults on Jews as to force them 
to leave Israel, but they never could pluck them out. 

Nothing could change my heart, I could only die or a miracle 
needed to happen. The simplest way to describe myself is 
that I was one of those whom one would view on CNN 
throwing rocks and molotov cocktails in the days of the 
Intifada or 'The Uprising', I was one of these who Jews 
would call a terrorist, the interesting thing is that I was not 
only terrorizing but I was terrorized by my beliefs, since I had 
to gain enough merit and good deeds to go to heaven but 
never was sure if my good deeds would outweigh my bad 
deeds in the scale when I get judged by God, of course to 
die fighting the Jews will ease Allah's anger towards my sin 
and I will be secured in a good spot in heaven with beautiful 
wide eyed women to fulfill my most intimate desires, either 
way I will win, and terror was the only way. 

I remember one time in Bethlehem all viewers clapped their 
hands with joy in a jam packed theater watching the movie 
"21 Days in Munich". The moment we saw the Palestinians 
throwing grenades in the helicopter, killing the Israeli 
athletes, hundreds of viewers yelled "Allahu akbar" (Allah is 
the greatest). This is the slogan of joy used by Muslims for 
victorious events. 

I remember students used to ask the teacher during our 
Islamic studies in Bethlehem High school, if it was 
permitted for Muslims to rape the Jewish women after we 
defeat them, his response was "The women captured in 
battle have no choice in this matter, they are concubines 
and they need to obey their masters, having sex with slave 
captives is not a "matter of choice for slaves.", this in fact 
was written in the Koran, for it says: 

 


"Forbidden to you also are married women, except those 
who are in your hand as slaves, this is the law of Allah for 
you." -- Sura: The Women (al-Nisa, verse 20) 

And in a different verse the Koran says: 

"O prophet; we allowed thee thy wives to whom thou hast 
paid their dowries, and the slaves whom thy right hand 
possesseth out of the booty which Allah hath granted thee, 
and the daughters of thy uncle, and of thy maternal aunt, 
who fled with thee to Medina, and any believing woman who 
hath given herself up to the prophet, if the prophet desired to 
wed her, a privilege to thee above the rest of the faithful". -- 
Sura: Confederates (al-Ahzab verse 50)


We had no problem with Mohammed taking advantage of 
this privilege as he married 14 wives for himself and several 
slave girls from the booty he collected as a result of his 
victorious battles, we really never knew how many wives he 
had and that question was always a debatable issue to us, 
one of these wives was taken from his own adopted son 
'Zaid', as Allah declared that she was given to the prophet, 
others were Jewish captives forced into slavery after 
Mohammed beheaded their husbands and families. 

In an attempt to change the hearts of Palestinians the Israeli 
T.V. station would show Holocaust documentary on T.V., I 
would sit and watch cheering the Germans while I chewed 
on food, It was impossible for me to change my mind or 
heart concerning Jews, only a "heart transplant" will do that 
job. 

They took our school once to a Jewish camp on the cost of 
Eshdod for a week to mingle us with other Jewish schools, 
that didn't work, on the contrary, every teacher who spoke to 
a Jew was mocked. 

My mother on the other hand tried to teach me a different 
idea at home she called God's plan, she spoke to me about 
Bible prophecy, she said that the return of the Jews was 
pre-planned by God and was fulfilled, this to her was Gods 
miracle in our generation, for the World to see that "his will 
shall be done." 

She also told me about many future events to be fulfilled in 
our generation which is surfacing every day now, she told 
me of false Messiahs and counterfeits; but all that had little 
effect, for my heart was set on fighting against the Jews. 

My mother was influenced by an American Missionary 
couple, who she asked secretly to baptize her, and when 
she refused to be baptized in a pond full of green algae the 
missionary priest had to plead to the YMCA in Jerusalem to 
clear the pool from men, and my mother was baptized, no 
one knew from our family. 

Many times my mother would take me on trips to several 
museums in Israel, and I fell in love with archeology, and 
was fascinated with it, in many arguments with her I would 
bluntly tell her that the Jews and Christians corrupted the 
Bible, she responded by taking me to the scroll museum in 
Jerusalem and showed me the scroll of Isaiah, still intact 
but there was no one taking pictures of any Bible errors to 
prove of any corruption and I could not respond to my 
mother. 

I remember when I still tormented my mother by calling her 
an "infidel" and a damned American Imperialist who 
claimed that Jesus is the Son of God. I'd show her the 
pictures in the news paper of all the teenagers supposedly 
martyred as a result of violence demanding her for answers, 
I hated her and always asked my father to divorce her and 
re-marry a good Muslim woman. 

I would even pose with a grim and sad face for the school 
picture as if I knew that my turn to be in the paper as a 
martyr would be next, as many times I risked being killed 
during youth protests and clashes with the Israeli Army. 

I lived in Israel during the Six Day War, the P.L.O. resistance, 
the Jordanian black September civil war, the bloody wars in 
Lebanon, and the war of Yom Kippur, with no hope to 
destroy Israel, all these losses and we still hoped for that 
one victory since that is all what it takes to destroy them. 

My parents worried a lot about me as I got thrown in prison 
by the Israeli Army, my mother went to the American Council 
in Jerusalem to try to get me out, she was so stressed her 
hair started to fall, in jail I learned more about the art of 
terrorism and when I got out I was more fanatic than before. 

When I graduated from high school they sent me to the 
United States to seek a higher education, and of course I 
got involved with many anti-Israeli social and political 
events. I still remember my favorite sick joke I used to like to 
tell my friends, that I hated Hitler very much because he 
never got the job done, that is: he never finished the Jewish 
problem "once and for all". 

With Hitler being my idol, and Mohammed my prophet, I 
went on with my life with little regard for Jews, Christians, or 
anyone who was not a Muslim. I believed that one day the 
whole World will submit to Islam, and that the whole world 
owes the Palestinians for their loss in all the battles with 
Israel, I also believed that Jews were prophet-killers and 
that they corrupted the Scriptures to serve their evil desires. 
This is what Muslims teach, they also teach that 
Mohammed is our only redeemer and God's favored 
prophet. 

As I lived in America I could not forget the hundreds of 
thousands of Muslims who died just in the last 20 years in 
Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Afghanistan, and 
in every single Muslim nation, I had to get revenge for them, 
and someone had to pay the price, and of course there is no 
question in my mind that the Jews had to pay the penalty, 
somehow we always managed to twist things together and 
make it their fault. 

One day I fought with a man and struck his eye blind, I was 
so happy to learn that the man was a Jew. 

I was fascinated with Islamic history as I learned that the 
Islamic prophet Mohammed extradited a Jewish tribe from 
Saudi Arabia and ordered the be-heading of all the men 
from another tribe, the women were taken as concubines. I 
used to believe as Islam taught, only a Caliph (Islamic ruler) 
can rule the world. Islam is not a religion for one's personal 
and moral life, but a system of law and government to the 
whole world, if not achieved through peaceful means would 
have to wage war against all whom do not submit to Islam, 
and with one billion Muslims living today I believed that it 
could happen. 

I'll be honest; All my life I was terrified every time I read the 
Koran, as after every other verse is always the threats of hell 
fire for this sin and that, when all I wanted is to reach out to 
my maker to say I am sorry, forgive me, give me another 
chance, but I failed to keep count of all my sins and my good 
deeds, and I was sure that at the end, my sins will outweigh 
my good deeds, so I lived my sinful life depending on the 
love and mercy of my maker. I always wondered about my 
destiny, lost in my fears and doubts, I really hated the idea of 
killing for my salvation, and in reality I never had the heart to 
kill a rat!, how then can I kill a Jew !!!. 

Sometime in 1992 I was fascinated when I read a book 
titled "Armageddon, Appointment With Destiny", by Grant 
Jeffrey. Some of the things explained in This book had many 
detailed prophecies about Jesus: his birth, life, death and 
resurrection; and the re-creation of the state of Israel. Many 
of these prophecies came to pass just as God put them 
down in the Bible! What also amazed me, is to find out that 
the chances for a man to predict hundreds of historic events 
written hundreds and thousands of years before their 
occurrences are one in zillions... what is more fascinating is 
that the margin of error had to be zero, especially when the 
fulfillment of many of these prophecies are happening in my 
generation. This kind of evidence had to come from a divine 
origin, that origin had to be God Almighty. 

The struggle began, I was puzzled, how could the Bible be a 
fake and corrupted by the Jews if the land I grew in spoke 
and cried out, as thousands of pieces of archeological 
evidence surfaced from the land of Israel, confirming the 
Bible, and the book of Isaiah was discovered in the Qumran 
caves was by a Muslim next town from Bethlehem by the 
name of (Muhammad Deib), he was looking for a lost 
sheep, from that discovery they found the rest of the Old 
Testament which confirming the Old Testament Bible in our 
hands today with hundreds of verses predicting the coming 
of Jesus Christ. 

I had to read the Bible to know who Jesus really is to find out 
for myself, and God finally led me to get to the bottom line, I 
started reading what Jesus said: 

 


"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, 
who was and is to come, the Almighty". Revelation 1:8 

Christ also said to the Jews: 

Truly, truly I say to you; before Abraham was born I AM (God. 
John 8:58


It amazed me to find similar claims between Jesus and 
Mohammed. These claims were serious, as Mohammed 
said: 

 


"I am the beginning of all creation and the last prophet", 

he also said: 

"I was a prophet of Allah while Adam was still being molded 
in clay",


and moreover he claimed to be the intercessor for Muslims 
in the day of judgment, by all of these claiming to be the 
World's last and final prophet and savior. 

These things always puzzled me. If Mohammed claimed all 
what he claimed than who was Jesus who claimed to be 
our redeemer and savior, that question troubled me a great 
deal, one of the two claims had to be a lie, if their was two 
redeemers this would be association with God since God is 
the only redeemer. 

Christ or Mohammed had to be the redeemer and 
intercessor for mankind, the Bible or the Koran had to be 
correct, one of them is pure gold and the other had to be a 
fake, but which one...? 

Vowing to make a decision for "The Truth", I stayed up late 
many nights comparing many details between the Koran 
and the Bible, at some point during my study I prayed 
saying: "GOD, you are the creator of heaven and earth, the 
God of Abraham, Moses, and Jacob, you are the beginning 
and the end, you are 'The Truth', 'the only Truth', the maker of 
the true scripture, the one and only word of God. I suffer to 
find your truth, I want to do your will in my life, I long for your 
love and in the name of 'The Truth' I ask. AMEN!!!" 

I wanted real gold and would not settle for an imitation, I had 
to scratch very hard to look beyond the surface of the worlds 
plastic religions. 

I believed in the Koran as the word of God because it had 
modern scientific laws, and only a book with a divine origin 
can have scientific facts written a thousand years before 
their discovery. I spent a month using a computer program 
searching for scientific clues in the Bible. Every verse in the 
Koran that was a scientific miracle that led me and millions 
of Muslims to believe in the Koran was already in the Bible. 
Many stories in the Koran had serious errors and with my 
knowledge on history and archeology I knew that the Koran 
had serious faults. 

With many of these discoveries my claim that the Koran was 
a miracle was in question, as the Bible had all of it's 
miracles hundreds and thousands of years before, my 
foundation shook and I felt the sinking sand under me. Even 
the nations mentioned by the prophet Ezekiel in chapter 38 
whom God will destroy, most of them are Muslim nations 
growing towards Islamic Fundamentalism today. 

What also helped me is that God led me to discover through 
my study of the Bible, hundreds of detailed and unique 
verses concerning prophecies fulfilled to the letter, no man 
has ever presented such detailed predictions of future 
events without having more errors than truth, God is the only 
one that hold the key to future events, and only the Bible has 
the key, not the Koran which lacks that most important 
elements, "Salvation and Redemption". I knew at that 
moment I would have to be a fool knowing all of this and 
continue worshipping a different God than the God of the 
Bible, as I really thought with my prayer that God will lead 
me to the Koran, but that was not the case with me, in fact it 
was the other way around, I had to give up my pride and be 
open minded to truth. 

God said in the Bible: 

 


For I am God, and there is no other; I am God and there is 
none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and 
from ancient times things are not yet done, saying my 
counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure. -- Isaiah 
46. 


God did not only foretell future events, but declared them 
and brought them to pass, unlike the Koran which simply 
used terror tactic to conform Muslims to believe. Since I did 
not believe that the Bible was corrupted, I spent many days 
searching the Bible for Mohammad as he claimed to be in it, 
but never found him, and if the Bible has been corrupted it 
had to have happened after the prophet Mohammed, since 
the Koran always addressed the Bible that was 'between 
his hands' at his time. From that time until now Muslims 
failed to provide one single Bible from the face of the Earth 
to prove the corruption, and not one historical or 
archeological evidence has been discovered to disprove the 
Bible. 

Even the death of that Muslim prophet was different than the 
death of Jesus, as Mohammed died on his favorite wife's 
lap "Aisha" while Jesus died on the cross in order to 
redeem man's sins. 

I felt sad that hundreds of millions of Muslims today live 
without ever hearing or being challenged with this kind of 
evidence. 

It was astonishing to me to find that Muslims and the rest of 
the World recognizes three main religions that worship God, 
even though God said that He is One and his Word is One. 

I was blind, but with the Bible only I began to see, I mean 
really SEE !!!, with so much Biblical prophecy fulfilled, 
showing the return of Israel from the grave, the attitudes of 
Muslims and the world towards Jews that the end time is 
near. 

Man has never changed he still kills his brother as Cain 
killed his brother Abel, the only difference is that we don't 
behead and stab each other in battles as much as we used 
to, we simply wage chemical warfare to exterminate each 
other like bugs, as human life is becoming less and less 
valuable. I began to see that sin is the source of all man's 
problems, and that the Devil is man's worst enemy, not the 
Jews, of whom Hitler exterminated 6 million Jews less than 
50 years ago and what is ironic today is that tons of 
literature is being sold denying the incident even existed. I 
wondered what would happen if a Hitler or a Mehdi or an 
Islamic Khalifa (Caliph) comes up to power and has what 
we have today: all these nuclear bombs capable of 
destroying Earth seven times over. God led me to look at the 
World that I live in and ask myself if the world today so 
foolishly denies the Jewish Holocaust despite all the 
evidence we have, why should I still wonder why most of the 
world today deny the messianic claim of Christ and the 
accuracy of the Bible, especially when the evidence is all 
around. 

God opened my heart and mind and led me to see how 
people today deny all the proofs he provided for us in his 
word, and adapting themselves to false forms of worship. 

The Lord began to show me the satanic influences which 
affected my way of thinking regardless of my Islamic 
background which I used to think were from God. 

I was led to view the World and the meaning of life and saw 
the need for salvation. We all can see today man's goal for a 
World Government waiting for the Devil to be the king ! 

"Babylon" is being revived from the grave to unite the world 
one more time, we only changed it's name to "The New 
World Order", when it should be called "The New Babylon". I 
started reading the Bible and began to wonder why 
Zechariah prophesied: 

 


"For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem, 
the city shall be rifled, and the women ravished". -- 
Zechariah 14:2 


In Islam I was taught that the second coming of the Messiah 
was in Islamic prophecy, he was portrayed as the one to 
break the cross and kill the pig, another setup for Muslims 
to follow the "false" messiah, the Mehdi, the coming 
Antiochos Epiphinias. 

Contrary to Mohammed's prophecy, the Bible prepares its 
readers that the outcome of the siege in the time of Jacob's 
trouble will not be the total annihilation of the Jews, but that 
Christ himself will descend on the Mount of Olives for 
judgment as he fights the enemies of Israel. Unfortunately, it 
will be too late for repentance and redemption for 
non-believers. 

The saddest part is that hatred towards Jews is not an old 
out moded idea from the far past, but millions of Muslims 
today have the same sick idea that one day they will do the 
same to all Jews in the Holy Land as Mohammed did to the 
Jews in Saudi Arabia. 

In fact the permission to kill Jews and Christians, and take 
their wives as concubines was engraved in the Islamic 
"Holy Koran", and is the main cause for the hatred of Jews 
by Muslims to this very day. 

The word "Truth" was stuck in my heart day and night, 
pounding on my soul as I continued to compare the two 
books, to finally conclude that the Bible can be proven 
beyond any shadow of a doubt to be true gold, not only by 
hundreds of ancient prophecies that came to pass, but by 
one ancient word created by God from the time of Jacob 
until our generation, for all who doubt, and that word was 
and still is 'Israel'. 

Israel's existence today, and the re-gathering of the Jews 
from ALL parts of the world, is an irrefutable proof, that the 
Holy Bible is the true Word of God, as God scattered them 
throughout the whole world, and re-gathered them again 
from ALL nations back to their original land in fulfillment of 
his promises in the far past, until our present, for he said: 

 


"I will gather you from ALL the nations, and from all the 
places where I have driven you, says the Lord, and I will 
bring you to the place from which I cause you to be carried 
away captive". -- Jeremiah 29:14 


The true God never changed, he is still the same, I also 
learned that my enemy, the Jews were chosen by God to 
write Gods Word, and God's plan for salvation through 
Jesus the Messiah the only Messiah and redeemer for man. 
I also learned that Jesus, the man from my hometown was 
a Jew, and even my hometown was Jewish 'Beth-Lechem', 
which means 'Home of the Bread', as he said: 

 


'I am the Bread of Life, he who comes to me shall never 
hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst' -- John 
6:35. 


Beth-Lechem was given it's name before Jesus came to 
this World, and he was from the people of my enemy the 
Jews, and he died for my sin, I never heard of an enemy 
who dies for another enemy and loves him so much that he 
allowed himself to be beaten, spat on, mocked and finally 
crucified. Can your enemy die for you? Yet he said: 

 


'Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to 
those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use 
you and persecute you' -- Matthew 5:44. 


The Truth was in front of my very eyes, knocking constantly 
on my heart, and wanting to come in. I called on The Truth 
and He answered, I was blind and sought the truth, and now 
I see, He knocked on my door and I opened, and now he 
had set me free! Christ said : 

 


"I am The Way, The Truth and The Life, no one comes to the 
Father except through Me". -- John 14:6 


My way of thinking, my feelings, and my goals in life began 
to change, I began to feel for the Jewish People, all the 
hatred left me, the desire to see them hurt is no more a 
thing in my life, now I hurt for them and pray peace for 
Jerusalem continually, and instead of laughing at images of 
the holocaust on T.V. I would weep for them, I am even 
ready to give my own life for them, as did my Lord. I say it 
despite the outcome of the hate that could come from my 
own fellow Arabs and Muslims. 

Yes I say it to the whole world, I love Jews, I love them 
because of their Messiah, I love them because they brought 
light to the world, and through them came the light and the 
truth, for that I love Jews. I no more despise them and I 
know from the Bible that the Jews are God's chosen people 
to give light to Arabs and to the whole World, if we only allow 
them, for God made them a blessing to the World, we need 
to love and support them as God said to Abraham: 

 


'I will bless those who bless you and I will curse him who 
curses you, and in you all the families of the earth shall be 
blessed' -- Genesis 12:2 


Knowing the truth transferred my way of thinking from 
believing in Hitler to believing in Christ, from believing lies to 
knowing the truth, from being spiritually sick to being 
healed, from living in darkness to seeing the light, from 
being damned to being saved, from doubt to faith, from hate 
to love, and from evil works to God's grace through Christ. 
This transformation taught me that without the (true) word of 
God things could look good on the surface but in the core 
lays deception. I accepted Jesus the Messiah, as my Lord 
and Savior, who died for all of our sins; to him I submit. 

Jesus said: 


"Come to me all you labor, and are heavy laden, and I will 
give you rest." -- Matthew 11:28 


Thank you Lord Jesus for fulfilling your promise. 

It's kind of ironic that the reason that we all ended up 
here,inspired a few pinheads to try to act like hidden terrorists 
themselves.

Come to Nebraska!We have lots of those homes here.And the worst 
part is when they invite you over to see their"home 
improvements",and you somehow have to keep a straight face.

From: u know who 
                                           To: nameless 
                                   Date: Thu Apr 11 20:45:23 2002 
                                            Message:

                   it is the demise of this board(and all that it 
stands for)spreading worldwide hatred from the minds of lonely 
fuckin morons.__________________________________________________

 Yes,saving the world from the evil-doers!Tell me something if 
you would:what color is your super-hero cape?
                   
                                            
                                                       

mr.gutless/nameless here   do allow me to rephrase.you dont 
                bother anybody except me walter.is that 
better?now,i reckon that about covers all the bases.

its mr.     gutless/nameless again walter,get it right,no i aint 
                   spy and i aint om/cf,neither of which have a 
problem with you.thats fine.like to be convinced by your more 
friendly chatty side in evidence at present.its just that some 
things just dont add up about you.i dont think using multiple
personas would be beyond you either.stringing people along all in
the interests of eleviating your boredom naturally.unfair 
criticism?probably,but you couldnt expect anything less after the 
stunts youve pulled on this board________________________________

 I really bother you a lot,don't I?LOL!!!
 If you were around when I pulled"stunts",as you call them,then 
you were posting under another name.As gutless/nameless,you 
qualify for the multiple persona label,so your whining about that 
is pretty much invalidated.Some things don't add up about me?Your 
paranoia is your problem,not mine.Enjoy it.I do.
 
 
                 

Thank you for taking the time to post that rather lengthy and 
beautiful story.  However, you fail to make me feel any better 
about the Islamic world.  

I've read some of the Koran and it does sound like a poor remake 
of the Bible. I've been told that Mohammed foamed at the mouth 
during his "revelations" and at one point took a 9 year old girl 
as a "wife".  Doesn't demonic possession cause people to foam?

I had to "refind" my faith, too.  In a different way.  It was 
suggsted to me to pray to have God reveal Himself as He truly 
is. My answer to that pray changed my life profoundly, as well.

I read your previous post as well. Hope there is more.

Sammy

   

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
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..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
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..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
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..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
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..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
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..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
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..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
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..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
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..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

"I'd walk a mile for a Camel."
- CAMELS   
..1001 ISLAMIC NIGHTS..

Your comments walter were fully expected and they duly arrived.i 
have to say they are indeed fair comments.i was mistaken and i 
offer you a full and unreserved apology should you wish to 
accept it.however that having been said,

your reference to the destruction of the towers of the world 
trade center in which 3000 people died in the most horrifying 
circumstances imaginable,was timed to cause maximum hurt and 
distress to those on this board.in a time of national crisis,to 
say such words were ill advised would be something of an 
understatement.if you wish to be a nations conscience i think a 
good place to start might be to make a proper apology for those 
words.not,  it was stupid of me  or  i wish i had not said 
that.a proper apology.i believe thats a fair request.should you 
find it beneath you,then i certainly,and possibly others have 
their answer once and for all.

as for this board,i made the fatal error of concerning myself 
with its integrity.an error which i shall end with immediate 
effect.please note   the post sent on wed apr 10:14 10:42 
2002,which incidently i of course did not send.i think it sums 
up what this board has become.and i'd like you to ask yourself 
as to whether youve improved it during your time here.thats for 
you to decide.that post sums up my views on the subject rather 
nicely.

i have to say,if were not for the likes of om/cf this board 
would indeed be dead.all you do,is simply hit the page refresh 
button ad infinitum.i few more thoughts from you would have been 
welcome,but it seems you only react to the thoughts of others as 
perhaps you have too few thoughts of your own.

i for one have no intention of bickering with you for the 
amusement of someone whos obviously psychotic.you and i may or 
may not have more to say to each other but i shall leave it at 
that.and as if it was not apparent before,you know whos so 
called goal has been clearly stated.i am assuming that was u 
know who.hes all yours. 

.....THE TIMES THEY ARE A-CHANGING.....
-BOB DYLAN-

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

Hi, Ashraf

                       ...peace....if not....chill.......

Allow Jesus to bring light into your soul, for he is our Druid 
(See'r of truth and justice) Partake of his offering and live as 
a child in your mothers arms and in your fathers heart. 
                             /|\
                       (past presant future) 

The Board is not dead, u know who is.

we're all nameless: this is internet!

Under The Boardwalk 
( The Drifters )

Oh, when the sun beats down and burns the tar up on the roof
And your shoes get so hot you wish your tired feet were fire-
proof
Under the boardwalk, down by the sea, yeah
On a blanket with my baby is where I'll be

(Under the boardwalk) out of the sun
(Under the boardwalk) we'll be havin' some fun
(Under the boardwalk) people walking above
(Under the boardwalk) we'll be making love
Under the board-walk (board-walk!)

From the park you hear the happy sound of a carousel
Mm-mm, you can almost taste the hot dogs and French fries 
(Curly!) they sell
Under the boardwalk, down by the sea
On a blanket with my baby is where I'll be

(Under the boardwalk) out of the sun
(Under the boardwalk) we'll be havin' some fun
(Under the boardwalk) people walking above
(Under the boardwalk) we'll be making love
Under the board-walk (board-walk!)

[break]

Oooooh, under the boardwalk, down by the sea, yeah
On a blanket with my baby is where I'll be

(Under the boardwalk) out of the sun
(Under the boardwalk) we'll be havin' some fun
(Under the boardwalk) people walking above
(Under the boardwalk) we'll be falling in love
Under the board-walk (board-walk!)

theE.S.D

http://www.uaedesertsafari.com/

http://www.uaedesertsafari.com/motor.htm

No freekin way!?!

It's just a scam. you would have to be out of your freakin 
skull! I love the pic. Bike going 60 mph with the kick stand 
down and a helmet stuck to the gas tank. The graphic artist 
should be shot

u suck big will henderson

U.S. sends over 3 BILLION $$$ in "aid" to Israel every 
year...why not use it for our OWN citizens?

if you wish to be a nations conscience i think a good place to 
start might be to make a proper apology for those              
words.not,  it was stupid of me  or  i wish i had not said 
that.a proper apology.i believe thats a fair request.

 It is a fair request.But before that could ever occur,I have to 
ask you this:Would you,stand up in the middle of a room(so to 
speak),and deliver a public apology, at the request of a person 
who was standing behind a curtain,and refused to come out?Does 
this sound at all reasonable to you?

 

Fuck you people! You know where you can stick the war, Britney, 
Mcdonalds, your dumbass psycho president, fire a nuke up your 
asses and give us a break! 

I know where I can stick Britney!

Wasn't that a warm hello from europe!

The reason you have all of that stuff is that there is a demand 
for it.  It none of you wanted it then don't use it.  It's 
called supply and demand.  If you get passed 4th grade then you 
will learn it.

We are all of you. You that swarm to our country because your 
country SUCKS. We do real well, because we don't let boys like 
you dictate to anyone how we live. Not religion, personal aganda 
or bigotry. 
              Sucker

Well I was studying economy(that was surely a mistake so I 
droped it) and the first lesson was that for a long time now 
needs do not cause goods but goods cause needs so I dont know 
if we are to blame for your showering with adwertising. And 
sorry but we didnt demand nukes, your holly crusade, and your 
pressident but still we are affected by them. 

(your holly crusade.) We most certanly won't crusade with holly. 
The trees are having enough problems as it is. And by all means 
Adwertising will be left to you, we do advertising. We do not 
crusade, that was done in EUROPE, by your friendly Britons. NOT 
AMERICA. And since you are studious remember we have no 
pressident. We do however have a president. And one last thing, 
Nukes are not a soly American owned or created commodity. You 
can thank Russa for that. So fuck off and have a nice day! 

The curtain's drawn back and here I am, now, that apology 
please. Not to me of course, to the families of those who 
perished in the attacks. You don't have to apologise for the 
Paki citizen remark either, though it was probably not aimed at 
me, it was for my attention. Do try not to take people for fools 
in future and attempt to make people's minds up for them. I've 
not intended for this to be a point scoring exercise, I'd 
imagine we could both venture some way down that road to no 
effect.

This is simply, my opinion. 

That's twice I've mistaken you now and my apology stands. I owe 
you nothing more. So now sir, from a gutless individual such as 
myself to a man of honour such as yourself, I'm sure you'll do 
the honourable thing, and adhere to my request.

One last thing. I'd hope any forthcoming apology is heartfelt. 
But that is of course, a matter between you and your heart. 

I am amazed, is this all true? And after the way you went and 
hipocrytically attacked me? As I understand it you are American, 
or am I mistaken in that? After all I had to go to K-mart to get 
you a new shirt, was that truly a mistake? 
  I feel I am alone in defending America and our values, and 
atacked by all to include the original poasters of the board. 
Let alone some Europians that have no room to talk. 
  As fellows sharing the same small planet, it is all so plainly 
obvious no one wants to get along. This is a small problem on 
other boards, but the mainstay here. I attribute it to the small 
minority. Sad

it is not your job to defend america. you are part of the problem

No you stupid moron, a gutlass ass hole like you is THE PROBLEM

If you will also recall,I'd said I burned 2 CD's of clips and 
film from 9-11,and was selling copies.Half of the money 
received($2,000 roughly)was given to victims of 9-11's 
families,and Firemen funds.I asked in a post to alatti2d months 
ago if she or anyone else could give me the names of charities to 
send money to.So many were trying to think up creative ways of 
calling me an asshole,that they didn't have time to bother with 
an address to actually HELP the people they cared so very much 
about.So I had to find everything on my own.And it became my own 
personal business.
 Anything I've had to say to the victims,and victim's families, 
I've said through my actions in my real life,and I'll decide for 
myself what is,or isn't enough.Not you,or anyone else.
 I would have much to answer for if someone would have 
posted"Someone I loved died there".Lucky for me,no one did.But I 
have to wonder:Who in the fuck elected YOU to be the 
representative for the victims on 9-11?Who are YOU to demand 
anything in their name?I responded to an inhuman post,with an 
inhuman post.This isn't about them,it's about Y-O-U.You are 
simply using them for your issues with me.You ask me earlier how 
I've improved the board:Who the fuck said it was my 
responsibility to improve the board?The board has never been more 
than a tool that has helped people to come to grips with what has 
happened on 9-11 and since.And I think it has.And like any useful 
tool,its usefullness will be over someday,and it will need to be 
discarded.
 As for a Paki citizen remark....I don't have a clue as to what 
you're talking about.
 You have indicated I am not doing the board very much good;if 
this is really the case,why don't you stick around and help the 
situation,instead of leaving the board,and then coming back and 
complaining about what happened while you were gone? 

I will happily answer any and all questions.
Attacks,and accusations will be answered by attacks,and 
accusations.

Understood. But in all your defense of a situation you knew 
nothing about derailed any response on the issue. Bringing the 
discussion into a realm of your own expertese is not unusual but 
often deliberatly abates the original goal. In your case it 
wasn't even in an area you knew anything about. The issues 
surrounding Briton and their feelings about the 9-11 attack is 
something I have intrest and intimate knowledge of. As well as 
the historical background of Britons past relating to Ireland, 
Wales and Scotland. The people of Briton do and in some cases 
don't agree with the direction their queen takes them. As is 
shown clearly in Ireland, religion is still a very painful issue 
and in the case of Muslims, as the shoe bomber proved, there is 
a lax attitude twords many things that allowed such a person and 
a faction to exist in Briton. For the British government to 
critisize the US at the time was the pot calling the kettel 
black. In this case you should have stepped out of the 
discussion and let U.K.Citizen answer. Rather you began a cyber 
pissing match that was unwarrented and way out of your ability 
to converse on. 

It is the consencus of the civilized world that you need a 
permanent enema.  Your resentment of McDonald's is funny; you've 
taken it upon yourself to regard the restraunt chain as somehow 
symbolic of a great nation.  A nation which has aided far too 
numerous nations on virtually countless occasions.

  A nation which is rightly credited with preserving the 
existence of other nations (France, for example).

  Speaking of which, are YOU French?  You certainly sound as if 
you might be: your whining and snivelling are strong indications.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The First Affair
There was a middle-age couple that had two stunningly beautiful 
teen-age
daughters. The couple decided to try one last time for the son 
they always
wanted.  After months of trying, the wife became pregnant and, 
sure enough,
delivered a healthy baby boy nine months later. The joyful 
father rushed to
the nursery to see his new son. He took one look and was 
horrified to find
the ugliest child he had ever seen. He went to his wife and said 
that there
was no way that he could be the father of the child. "Look at 
the two
beautiful daughters I fathered," he cried. Then he gave her a 
stern look and
asked, "Have you been fooling around on me?"  The wife smiled 
sweetly and
said, "Not this time."

The Second Affair
A mortician was working late one night. It was his job to 
examine the dead
bodies before they were sent off to be buried or cremated. As he 
examined the
body of Mr. Stewart Schwartz, he made an amazing discovery: 
Schwartz had the
longest private part he had ever seen!  "I'm sorry, Mr. 
Schwartz," said the
mortician, "but I can't send you off to be cremated with a 
tremendously huge
private part like this. It has to be saved for posterity." And 
with that the
coroner used his tools to remove the dead man's privates. The 
coroner stuffed
his prize into a briefcase and took it home.  The first person 
he showed was
his wife. "I have something to show you that you won't believe," 
he said,
opening his briefcase.  "Oh, my God!" she screamed. "Schwartz is 
dead!"

The Third Affair
A woman was in bed with her lover when she heard her husband 
opening the
front door. "Hurry!" she said. "Stand in the corner!" She 
quickly rubbed baby
oil all over him and then she dusted him with talcum 
powder. "Don't move
until I tell you to," she whispered. "Just pretend you're a 
statue."  What's
this, honey?" the husband inquired as he entered the room.  Oh, 
it's just a
statue," she replied nonchalantly.  "The Smiths bought one or 
their bedroom.
I liked it so much, I got one for us, too."  No more was said 
about the
statue, not even later that night when they went to sleep. 
Around 2 a.m., the
husband got out of bed, went to the kitchen and returned a while 
later with a
sandwich and a glass of milk.  Here," he said to the 
statue, "eat something.
I stood like an idiot at the Smiths' for three days, and nobody 
offered me as
much as a glass of water."

The Fourth Affair
A man walks into a bar one night. He goes up to the bartender 
and asks for a
beer.
"Certainly, sir," replies the bartender. "That'll be 1 
cent."  "ONE CENT!"
exclaims the customer.  The barman replies, "Yes."  So the guy 
glances over
the menu and asks, "Could I have a nice juicy T-bone steak with 
chips, peas
and a fried egg?"  "Certainly, sir," replies the bartender, "but 
all that
comes to real money."  "How much money?" inquires the 
guy.  "Four cents," the
bartender replies.  "FOUR cents!" exclaims the guy. "Where's the 
guy who owns
this place?"  The bartender replies, "Upstairs with my wife."  
The guy asks,
"What's he doing with your wife?"  The bartender replies, "Same 
as I'm doing
to his business."

The Fifth Affair
Jake was dying. His wife, Becky, was maintaining a candlelight 
vigil by his
side. She held his fragile hand, tears running down her face. 
Her praying
roused him from his slumber. He looked up and his pale lips 
began to move
slightly, "My darling Becky," he whispered.  "Hush, my love," 
she said.
"Rest. Shhh, don't talk."  He was insistent. "Becky," he said in 
his tired
voice, "I have something I must confess to you."  "There's 
nothing to
confess," replied the weeping Becky. "Everything's all right. Go 
to sleep."
"No, no, I must die in peace, Becky. I slept with your sister, 
your best
friend, her best friend and your mother!"  "I know," Becky 
whispered softly.
"That's why I poisoned you."

The Sixth Affair
An elderly gent was invited to his old friend's home for dinner 
one evening.
He was impressed by the way his buddy preceded every request to 
his wife with
endearing terms-"Honey," "My 
Love," "Darling," "Sweetheart," "Pumpkin," etc.
The couple had been married almost 70 years and, clearly, they 
were still
very much in love.  While the wife was in the kitchen, the man 
leaned over
and said to his host, "I think it's wonderful that, after all 
these years,
you still call your wife those loving pet names."
The old man hung his head. "I have to tell you the truth," he 
said. "I forgot
her name about 10 years ago."

we=me
They are the same person.
Check the other boards and you will see.
(Hey that rhymed)

we we

Ok, now lets see. I know Get a Grip is Merlyn because he (he 
being Merlyn) stated that long ago. We and me are one and the 
same, maybe. U know who is, well, u know who. Commando may be 
Sister even though male. Walter is Walter, except when he is 
being someone else, and u know who. U.K.Citizen was 
gutless/nameless as dubbed by Walter, who may not have been 
Walter at the time. I jumped to conclusions today thinking 
theE.S.D may have been Ashraf after someone said hello to Ashraf 
after a excellent post by theE.S.D. thinking u.a.E. Desert 
Safari.

Now Im Exhausted, who used to be Noah. LOL!!!!!!

N.C. Gal, are you still N.C. Gal or have you moved?

I'm glad you explaned it all, I didn't have the energy. Yes I'm 
still NC Gal, always have been and always will, unless my 
husband writes under my name. I wonder what ever happened to 
Noah? I hope he's still not exhausted..... 

With all due respect,I don't know what in the fuck you're 
talking about.Not due to any lack of intelligence on my part,no 
matter what you choose to believe.LOL

I'm sorry,but I'm not u know who.Not even on weekends.
But I do post under"Oh Christ,there goes the asshole again".

Do you know anything about the remark about Pakistan that 
U.K.Citizen is referring to?I don't have a clue about it,and I 
think that's what this whole thing revolves around.

I don't think I really explained anything because I don't have a 
clue but I will say I posted as 'u know who' when his mom got 
hit by the car and dad hit the doctor with the whiskey bottle. 
Justice, I know its your tactic, but I was possesed and couldn't 
help myself!

We appreciate your interest in our "publication".

theE.S.D. actualy has two meanings for our 
small"organization".
The main one being for EradicateSaDam.
The second meaning pertains to a secured web site we 
have for our few members.

We publish only as theE.S.D.;however one of our members
post seperate posts under their name which is also  
represented by one of the letters in theE.S.D.
This has been stated in the past on this board and further
research of the board should answer your question (if any)
as to who that member's board name is.
We believe U.K.Citizen is aware of this relation.
 
We apologize for any confusion that we may have caused.

Again;we thank you.

I really didn't keep up with back and forth on that exchange so 
no, I really don't know.

All is forgiven :)  I too posted as u know who (Gay man getting 
cock sucked post, NAMCLA, mother working at BK and dad drinking 
whiskey, and a couple others).

If the "regulars"feel that I'm a pain in the ass,you can 
always........It's my turn to use the term...............vote me 
off the island.And I promise I won't appear on the"Today"show 
whining about how I was treated..........

I recognized the gay man post,since you posted the same article 
under my name in November.LOL!!!
 NAMCLA is priceless!

Thanks for clearing that up, I remember now.

I guessed you on the 'u know who' takeoffs but I was guessing 
Merlyn on the NAMCLA thing. That was funny as hell!

you remember, it's when I ripped your K-Mart shirt. And then you 
had a tissy for a while before you came back on. But then it 
could have been Justice faking Walter, but he was busey being 
Patel, as then I often Pataled back & morphed into Jaheeb! who 
by the way still is missing his wholly book of Kabob! all due to 
using it during the sacrid rite of mezzka when in jahead. He ran 
out of the wholly sheets! 
    Instead we often have "as the Dradel turns" but that's Get a 
grip anyway. but only N.C.Gal could figure what a FXSTS is.  

--------------------------------------------------

Guardian (London)
Wednesday April 10, 2002

Is this man leading us to war with Iraq?
When Dr Ahmad Chalabi talks about toppling Saddam
Hussein, the US hawks listen. Henry Porter meets the
Iraqi dissident who wants to free his country by any
means


Saddam Hussein will go. George Bush has decided, and
Tony Blair, after commuting between positions of
support and relative caution through the winter, has
given his wholehearted backing. Regardless of what
Labour MPs say, or what happens in Europe and the UN,
it seems likely that by the end of the year the
greatly enhanced missiles of America's arsenal will be
raining down on strategic sites throughout Iraq.

Whatever we think about the prospect of a war in the
Middle East at this extremely fragile moment, the
statements over the weekend from Crawford, Texas,
represent a considerable victory for Dr Ahmad Chalabi,
who is one of six members of the leadership council of
the dissident Iraqi National Congress (INC), its chief
strategist and head of intelligence.

Chalabi goes unrecognised as he walks in the
spring sunshine in London, which is probably a good
thing because the last count put the number of
attempts on his life at nine. There have probably been
others he hasn't known about and it is certain that
there is never a moment when Saddam's intelligence
service, the Mukhabarat, is not dreaming up a way of 
killing him.

Under this threat, Chalabi is relaxed and
purposeful. "I don't like to talk about attempts on my
life. The details are sordid - thallium, rockets,
car bombs, snipers. Many of our people have been
killed by thallium [poison]. There have been many
deaths in northern Iraq - that's what matters."

He leads me through the foyer of an anonymous
office block in central London, talking about the
works of ancient Assyrian art looted by Saddam. We
take the lift up to a floor where there are two
security doors and more cameras than you would expect.
At length we come to another door and are let
into a study. There is a leather suite, contemporary
Iraqi paintings and two walls of books which include
the World of Parrots, Plato, Isaiah Berlin and
many volumes of history. He spends a lot of his time
in this room, plotting, but when he really needs to
get away he vanishes into the stacks of the
London Library and reads whatever his eye happens to
fall upon.

Chalabi, an MIT graduate with a PhD in
mathematics from the University of Chicago, is a
promiscuous and retentive reader. It shows in his
conversation which typically darts between number
theory, ancient cultures and current espionage
techniques. As he talks his mouth forms a 
boomerang smile that reaches up to a pair of
glittering eyes.

In many ways he is like a character from
19th-century fiction, improbably lit with
intelligence, charm and sensibility and at the same
time blessed with the darker gifts of the spy and
master of intrigue. Among the things he does very
successfully from the room where we talk is to run a
spy network across Iraq.

More than anyone he is responsible for alerting
the west to the build-up of weapons of mass
destruction since the Unscom inspectors left
Iraq four years ago. The information is not just
rumour; it is high-grade intelligence, concerning
plans, locations, expenditure and named personnel.

INC information is by far the best coming out of
Iraq, but the CIA under director George Tenet won't
have anything to do with him. And when Chalabi saw
Colin Powell in the distance at the state department
the other day, the US secretary of state waved weakly
and made off in the opposite direction. Even now, as
Bush prepares for war with Saddam, the state
department does everything in its power to hinder
Chalabi and limit his influence.

He has some friends in Washington DC,
principally at the Pentagon and among the staff of the
Defence Intelligence Agency. According to the 
former CIA officer Bob Baer, whose book See No Evil
was published last month, Chalabi's influence is now
stronger than it was because, as Baer puts it:
"He talks their language. He knows how to make himself
clear and knows what they want to hear. He doesn't go
round in circles like every Arab you ever sat down
with in the Middle East."

Of much greater importance are the defectors the
INC has smuggled out of Iraq and served up to the
Americans. Recently the product of these debriefings
has been hitting the desk in the oval office. But it
has been around for a while. In 1995 the head of
military intelligence, General Wafic Sammarai,
defected with Dr Khidir Hamza, head of the nuclear
programmes who worked on Saddam's bomb. Late last 
year
a building contractor and engineer -still unidentified
- came out with information that the DIA called
"spectacular".

Chalabi couldn't be more pleased by the outcome
of the Crawford summit. He is unabashed by his part in
engineering the current state of high alert because of
one simple reason: he is a freedom fighter and wants
nothing more than to introduce democracy to his
country. "We want a government that respects human
rights, based on a constitution, free elections and a
federal structure. But it is an oddly revolutionary 
idea. It leads to a great deal of disquiet among US
allies. That is reflected in the hordes of
organisations that talk to the state department and
CIA about repressive Arab regimes, chiefly Saudi
Arabia." He refers to the lobbyists who are at pains
to reinforce the orthodoxy that Arab states can only 
be run by strong men and platoons of psychopaths,
armed with electrodes and scalpels.

This is the third time I have met Chalabi. I am
always struck by the clarity and reasonableness of his
ambitions, but it is important to remind oneself that
he is a skilled manipulator who spends his time
thinking how to hasten a war against a man who a) is
now immeasurably better armed than he was in 1990; b)
will probably strike at Israel the moment he is 
attacked; and c) will use anything he can when the
chips are down - including dirty nukes and biological
warfare.

As Chalabi admits, if Saddam can go out having
killed 100,000 Israelis, his ambition to live on in
Arab memory as a modern Saladin will be achieved. The
stakes are high, which accounts for the pallor of
British ministers and officials who have seen some of
the recent estimates of Saddam's arsenal and his
plans.

Chalabi feels that the single greatest mistake
of the western governments is that they haven't
communicated their fears and knowledge to the public.
Besides this, he also points out that the US is bound
by an act of congress to seeing democracy introduced
in Iraq.

Little happened after the bill was passed by
congress during the last Clinton administration
because of what Chalabi believes to be deep-rooted
prejudice. "It's an attitude which nearly borders on
racism. There is an infernal circle working which says
the Iraqi people must be savages because they allow
Saddam to rule them. Ergo they cannot be democrats and

Saddam has to be replaced by another strong man.

"The myopia of the left when it thinks of Iraq
is principally caused by residues of third-worldism.
But they also think that because the US is
targeting Saddam, Saddam must have redeeming features.
Let me tell you, Saddam has no redeeming features."

One of the defectors brought out by the INC last
year, General Abu Zenab of the Mukhabarat, underlines
this. With his stories of torture, random arrests and
the killings of thousands of young men after the 
1995 uprising, he evoked a landscape of unending
darkness for the American team sent to debrief him. He
spoke without the slightest whisper of conscience or
any sense, for instance, that raping a woman in his
custody was not a perk of the job enjoyed by security
boys the world over. Another defector has recently
told how children have been tortured to gain
confessions from their parents.

But between now and any realisation of Chalabi's
dream almost certainly stands a war - and one which
could sprawl through the Middle East - and then an
arduous unification process involving two Islamic 
sects (the Sunni and Shi'a), three racial groups
(Arab, Turkoman and Kurdish) and numerous clans. As
the former CIA director Richard Helms advised: "Pay
attention to the things that are hundreds of years old
- the religious sects and the tribes." Three quarters
of Iraqis are members of one the country's
150 tribal clans.

Chalabi is a Shi'a but says he has no special
brief for the Shi'as and anyway does not harbour
ambitions of standing for office if and when 
Saddam is overthrown. "This is about creating a civil
society, liberating Arab history from despotism. The
thing about a civil society is that there are
common ideas about how it should be run - what people
think of taxation, health and education services. That
is what binds them now."

This is the vision of a cunning and humane
optimist. It will be greeted with scepticism by many,
but it is extremely difficult to argue with an Arab
intellectual who wants nothing more than to give his
people the freedoms enjoyed in the west.

===========================

I remember you thought I was English,and that's all I remember 
about that.I'd have to go back,and read those posts to see what 
was said.Should I?Or should I just call it back issues,and go on 
to whatever's next?I remember the Patel posts,and it explains a 
lot since Patel changed viewpoints several times;confusing...LOL
 I'm often confused about what you think about the 
Israel/Palestine stuff,but it sound a lot like you think like I 
do about it:Both sides are acting like a group of psychopaths.

Isn't FXSTS a type of Harley-Davidson?

Yes Walter, back issues and on to other things. I will only 
predict that I am tired of seeing for a while and am in study of 
other things. In the mean time, duck if you hear a bullet or a 
bomb. I won't be back to predictions untill I am done with the 
next few practums (lessons).
   Yes I do actually study under a mentor. 
FXSTS. FX (frame designation for engine mounting method) ST 
(soft tail, rear suspension type) S (Springer, front end) It is 
a first year 1988 commerative edition (First year the springer 
front end had been offered as a stock option since the early 
1950's I think), and became a mainstay, is still available due 
to popularity. That is partly due to looks, but mainly due to 
function. The new springer front end works very well and is a 
suspension "system" instead of two tube shocks that tend to 
jitter at high speeds and in hard cornering. The springer front 
end is much like the "mono shock" system used in dirt track 
bikes in nature, it absorbs the road well while delivering 
precise control. 
  I like it.  

I don't think anyone can be 'voted' off a public forum. I've 
always wondered who runs this site and what their motives might 
be. Are our comments going to appear in a book. If so, Im sure 
we all want our cut. I would be flat out embarassed to see many 
comments I've written made public. Ahhhh, the safety of the 
cyberworld.

This was the first board I ever posted to and is the only one I 
do regularly now. My daughter likes the teen chat rooms, but I 
keep a close eye on that. A 6' 3", 210 lb. 13 year old boy is 
not likely, if ya know what I mean.

Of course the comments you made at first pissed off a lot of 
people, and there is no doubt that was your intention. I can 
understand your point in a way, I mean how many 'raghead' this 
and 'dunecoon' that, posts saying the same thing can a person 
take? Like you said in your post to U.K.Citizen today, you felt 
lucky that no one came back to you and said they had lost 
someone that day because I believe you would have carried that 
with you for awhile as punishment. Thats IF, the board didn't 
get to you first. I mean, driving a Pinto is dangerous!

Anyways, I don't want to write a freakin' soap opera here, so 
I'll just say, of coarse your a pain in the ass!! LOL!


U.K.Citizen:
My hope is you will start posting again. We've got a ruthless 
dictator who is paying people to blow themselves up to keep the 
heat off Iraq to deal with. His name is Saddam and has a son 
named Queezy, Quasar or something like that. We're going to need 
input from the U.K. soon, when things take a serious turn again.

Go dig up the Queen mum's bones and have yourself a feast...    

I've no wish to look back through the archives at this stage, I 
don't think any of the relevant posts are there any longer 
anyway. However what I can recall in general terms, was that 
what was said was provocative in nature. As I say, those 
specific posts are gone now, so in large degree this is a moot 
discussion. I didn't respond to you at the time, as frankly, I 
was a little stunned by it all. Others responded, and for a 
number of them that are still around, it's long been walter 
under the bridge. I recall what I recall. One cannot remember 
every single thing written in every single post. I for one, have 
to form simply a general impression about someone in my mind 
from what they've posted. You may have the advantage in that 
possibly you have print outs of the posts from around that time, 
for posterity possibly. I don't. And I've no interest in 
revisiting that period either.

If I'm in the wrong about something, I don't hesistate to 
apologise. I've been prepared to do that because I've not 
hesitated to raise my head above the parapit and take risks now 
and again if I feel something needs to be said, or if I 
genuinely feel something is wrong. Evidence for that fact is a 
matter of record, since I've been on here. I'm assuming what 
you've said is true, regarding fund raising for firefighters 
etc, and I do of course commend you for that. From your 
perspective you must think I have a vendetta against you. That's 
not the case. And I would certainly feel rightly aggrieved if I 
was in your position.   

Walter when I asked for an apology, I deliberatly mentioned the 
relatives of those who perished, as being THE important issue, 
NOT ME. If I'd have not mentioned the relatives you'd still have 
accused me, that I had not mentioned the victims' relatives! A 
no win situation. C'mon Walter now who's being childish. 
Pointscoring? I DO NOT claim to represent any single person or 
group unless there are credible poll findings and stats to back 
it back. Incidently all of which, at all times, I always take 
the trouble to specify the source, etc etc. Please don't try to 
turn this on its head or we could be here all day and night 
arguing as to who has the moral highground. The fact that I've 
apologised in this post and previously for any misguided 
accusations should bare testiment, that this is not an issue 
between you and I, anything like the degree to which you think 
it is. If you've no wish to accept my apology, then I guess that 
is up to you. I have offered it and that's all I have to say on 
the matter.    

The issue of 'improving the board': Well, I'd have to ask you 
this question. Did you or did you not, tell Radio Europe that in 
your opinion this board was 'dead'? If not, then I've fucked up 
once again, then I have that rather dubious Full House, or 
possibly a Royal Flush in my case. If you did however, THAT and 
THAT ALONE, was why I asked you to contribute to the board more. 
The logic being: if a person complains that the board is dead, 
then I for one would have expected that person to do something 
more about it. I could not care less as to whether people wish, 
or do not wish, to 'contribute' to this board, and that includes 
you. It's of course entirely up to the individual. THAT is the 
ONLY reason I raised the matter at all.

An 'attack' post carried out on another member of this board, on 
this board, had similarities in my estimation to your attack 
responses and general viewpoint. Hence my assumption that it was 
you. I have only your word that it was not. Again, I'm quite 
prepared to take what you've said at face value, and, once 
again, I apologise if it wasn't you.

Summing up, from what you've posted, you feel indignant and feel 
you have no reason to apologise, for, basically anything 
whatsoever. That you had in fact no intention of apologising for 
anything whatsoever, just so that you could attack me 'in 
person', so to speak. Most of which I don't blame you for. I 
think it's fair to say however, that you and I probably have 
very little left to say to each other after all that. I'm glad 
to see that you,like I , have no ego. 

I attempted to leave twice, but was persuaded back by others 
twice. A week or so ago, I felt it best to move on because of 
the general discord on the board that has occured of late, and 
most importantly that I felt I no longer really had anything to 
contribute. That's still the case and I'll not post after today. 
Promise. The reason I returned was the severe nature of the 
attacks on members of this board. I felt I had to respond in 
their defence anonymously after having already stated once again 
that I was leaving. But such attacks are water off a ducks back 
to most here I suppose, so I needn't have worried. Bye.
      

I agree, I don't think anyone can be voted off a board. It takes 
all the different personalities and opinions to make up the 
board. I know that this has been a real benefit to my wife 
(North Carolina Gal). One minute she gets so upset by what she 
reads and then she's laughing so hard she's almost in tears. 
Sometimes I have to go in the other room on my computer so I can 
see just what she's laughing about, But I want to thank ALMOST  
everyone for posts made here, they have been helpful, 
informative, comical and provided so much food for thought. I 
know that I myself almost never post but I'm usually here with 
NC Gal, and have at least been reading this thing since shortly 
after 9-11. I hope that the board can continue, I hope that 
the "Old timers" don't decide to leave, and that some of those 
who have left would come back.   

No they are not just water off the duck's back. Much as many 
think as such. Each step, word or day will be what you and I 
look back on during this very sad time for so many. The anger 
is "acted out" and in that is just in feeling helpless to change 
ourselves, or what happened on 9-11, the day after...do you 
remember? Remember what you were doing the day before? It all 
changed that day. That day the horseman of the apocalypse Rhode 
his horse of death, through the sky. Beware the four horsemen. 
Prepare. May God bless you all hear the call. 
     Take care
         Merlyn 

I'm not quite sure how much you and I have in common on many 
issues, race, religion, politics etc etc. Some of your 
viewpoints I agree with, others not. And I'm sure vice-versa 
from your point of view. My approach here is that I don't wish 
to berate or judge other people's point of view and dismiss it 
out of hand. People generally arrive at their viewpoints on 
matters, for a reason. Our two viewpoint may be on different 
ends of the spectrum on many things, but niether of us would 
ever have known it. I think the reason was simply our 
willingness to meet each other at least half way. The judgement 
mentality of posters on this site in general have immediately 
caused those they are aiming their comments at to put their 
defences up, therefore stiffling any meaningful dialogue. I've 
never tried to change anybody elses point of view, but simply 
put things as I see them from my own experiances. At least 
people can be a little more informed before they make their 
minds up about any one topic. Merlyn, you certainly wear your 
heart on your sleeve, and as you've shown over the weeks you've 
no hesitiation in telling myself and others much about yourself. 
An extravert! I'm your direct opposite on that score. 
Nevertheless it's been good talking with you and others here. 
Your humour may or may not have appealed to all here, I've no 
idea,...but I liked it. I was tempted to post back to you after 
that 'chicken run' post. Foglorn Leghorn now rules the roost and 
eyein' up those hens! A most gracious acceptance speech. Like I 
may have said, you keep things ticking over on the board along 
with the 'older' (not in age necessarily!) 'veterans', keeping 
it active and interesting. Good effort. For the record, I'm not 
quite as smart as you perhaps take me for, I just sound smart. I 
know a little about the N.I. situation, enough to give an 
informed comment perhaps. Thanks for those words btw. I do wish 
you well Merlyn.    

T'is good to run across your path again---been gone for 
awhile myself.
Hope ya might answer


Spy

It's difficult for me to remember any post from me to Radio 
Europe,because I always thought he was a fuckin jerk,and never 
made any effort to speak of any issue with him at all.
 I was quite surprised to find that you were the"nameless"poster 
actually,since you and I had talked back and forth on many 
occasions,and this subject was never brought up.Then months 
later,you show up,and accuse me of screwing up the 
board,attacking people,and want an apology on behalf of others.
 I've went through old posts and found one where I was laughing 
at George Bush's use of the word"Paki's",and what I thought was 
funny is that he was stupidly using a derogatory term for people 
from Pakistan.I was laughing at his blunder,not the people from 
Pakistan.From either myself wording it badly,or if you misread 
it,either one,I apologize for the pain and/or anger it caused 
you.
 If you will remember,I was one of the people who asked you to 
continue posting when you were considering leaving the board.And 
nothing about that has changed.You have always provided valuable 
input here,no one can deny that.If you have nothing further to 
say to me,OK,that's the way it will be.

Om/cf: Just caught your post. Thanks for your sentiments, but my 
mind was already made up a couple of weeks ago. I feel I owe you 
an apology for reasons of which you're aware. Tactless, is the 
word I think, I'm sure you understand what I'm refering to. 
Other things in my life are taking priority right now, I don't 
need the extra stress this board sometimes gives me. I said the 
same thing to Allatti2d via e-mail, and I'll say the same to 
you. As far as I'm concerned you're a credit to yourself and 
your nation. 

This America bashing is only succeding in bashing individuals in 
the end, not a government. But, in the end, one has to try to 
stick up for one's country, something you've done "with dignity 
and class". You held out the hand of friendship to Fact Finder 
who's a truly peaceful and peaceseeking man. That was an 
instinctive act and it says much about you. It's been a real 
pleasure standing side by side with you on here, with our 
unspoken rule "I deal with the wacky Brits, you deal with the 
wacky Yanks". I think it worked well. You're a man of honour, 
and your opinions I believe are there because of honourable 
reasons. Kick bully ass I say.

Finally, all the best to you and your family. I also, wish you 
well.

Everyman: Yes, I'm definately going this time. The very best to 
you and your family.  

Oh well......... If you ever decide to come back remember,the 
Kennedy assasination has never been explained,so you can blame me 
for that also.

Spy: Let's face it Spy, I can't keep doing this. It's getting 
ridiculous! Staying/going oh lordy!! It's nice to hear from you. 
Sorry about all this. I do have my faults you know. I'm not a 
saint. I do my best, as we all do. I proud to have supported the 
U.S. simply as an indiviual. No nation is perfect, but in the 
end we're all individuals. You take care Spy.

Walter: All of a sudden there's a veritable blizzard of posts 
going to and fro, hard to keeep up! No hard feelings, life's too 
short I suppose. I'd made my mind up prior to this anyway. The 
misundertandings were unfortunate to say the least, but hey who 
knows.....maybe they served a purpose. You are gutsy. Bye again 
Walter.

You'll be missed......

Just for the info.........the Kennedy post above was meant as a 
joke....my use of sarcasm is rather..........odd at times I 
guess.

That was you? The baby, in the diaper, on the grassy knoll with 
the rifle?

Yes,and the closest they ever came to figuring out it was me was 
the cigarette butts I left behind(I started smoking at a very 
young age).The rifle was made out of"Tinkertoys",but it was very 
accurate for long distances.

Well why not. Nobody could duplicate Lee Harvey Oswalds feat 
from the Book Depository with a cheap, mail order Italian bolt 
action rifle. Not expert marksmen, let alone Lee who was less 
than expert and a general bumbler to boot.

Listen man----dropping out for awhile is not a bad thing---I 
understand that VERY MUCH.
I'm no frickin' saint myself.
 However---in a weird kind of way------you have become a 
friend of mine. Someone I would like ta cross paths again.
A reason out of others that I returned to this frickin' mess of 
a board.

On a personal note (and I hate talking here about this kind 
of shit---) I've had ta deal with a lot of death type issues;
but coming back here and seeing some of the recent 
friends that I've made ( after 9-11)---t'is good ta see. You're 
one of 'em.

I don't expect the daily post like we use to do---but I do 
expect ta here from my new (recently) found friend.
And that would be you U.K. (and some others).

I know you don't agree with me on religion---and I don't care!
(but I hope you don"t mind if I wish you a GodBless anyway).

Your ISP kinda cyber friend------Spy

When I was very small I explained what happened to my mother and 
grandparents.As I explained about the shots coming from the 
suppository(lotta TV?),they all broke out laughing,and I walked 
away mad as hell at them for thinking the presidents death was 
funny.A story still told with glee at family get-togethers.....


 The real story will never be told,and from what I've seen and 
read,I'm not really sure I want to know what really happened.A 
very shady business.

Hey whats up with the background picture are you promoting the 
evnts on september 11, or what? change the background paper.

Anything for you,Great Aldo,God of idiots.

Sorry,it was such an asshole thing of me to say.What I meant 
was:This is a messageboard for the use of discussion of the 
terrorist events of 9-11 and thereafter.As of yet,no one who 
posts here has requested that the background be changed,and for 
that matter,none of us here has the power to change it.If it is 
too offensive to you,use the backspace button on your browser,and 
it will take you right back to www.askjeeves.com.

I'll keep an eye out -------

I think you have forgotten why this board was started in the 
first place.  We should never forget.  The background is the 
board.

I'm a fucking idiot.  you're right; I have my head up my ass.    

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win with friendly Brits."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win with friendly Brits."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win with friendly Brits."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win with friendly Brits."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win with friendly Brits."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win with friendly Brits."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win with friendly Brits."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win with friendly Brits."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

"Friendly Americans win British friends."
UNITED STATES BOARD SERVICE

You all are pathetic mother fuckers!!!! you dick heads are 
noting but nazis, so get the hell of our planet and start your 
FUCKING!!! "CRISIS 2001" somewere else!!!!!!!!!!! 

MOTHERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
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RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR 
FUCKERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
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SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
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SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Another suicide bomb, does the palestinian want peace. How can 
their foreign minister compare the killing of innocent civiliana 
to rounding up of militants and weapon as equal. If the Isreal 
wanted to kill they would have killed many more, they were 
trying to dig out all the hidden organizations who is doing all 
these suicide bombing and met with resistance from all kind, 
men, women, young and old,they would definitly shoot and kill if 
they were attack. As I say if Isreal were to sent in their 
Rambos and killed the innocent palestinian civilian, it could 
have been worse. I just hope Sharon would not come to think of 
these actions to stop the palestinian suicide bombing

The palestinian does not want a state of their own, they want 
the whole of the holy land and chasing the Isreal out of the 
Holy Land. Read the past history. Isreal have to defend itself. 
Not only from the Palestinian but from the rest of the Arab 
world.

Mr Bush has made it clear, that to have peace in the world, any 
form of terror must be stop. Isreal is doing exactly what the 
American is doing in Afghanistan. I believe Om/Cf mention it.

I hope the American public who, think that what the Isreal is 
doing is wrong should ask themselves who hates America, the 
Isreal or the Palestinian.

I also hope that Isreal finish whatever job they are supposed to 
do with as little casualties a possible and withdraw from those 
territory and the palestinian should give these withdrawal a 
chance.

The palestinian are smart they know that the United Nation, 
European and the United States ask Isreal to withdraw. The 
Palestinian actually do not want the Isreal to withdraw. They 
just want the world to see how arrogant Isreal is. Last week, no 
suicide bombing, we hear that the Isreal will withdraw before 
Colin Powell arrived. Just as he arrived 3 suicide mission. What 
are the Palestinian trying to tell the Isreal. "Carry on attack 
us. Your big brother is here to scold you for not withdrawing in 
his command to do so".

If the Palestinian authority can gurantee that there would not 
be anymore suicide bombing and the Isreal are still not 
withdrawing than I would definitely not agree with the Isrealis. 
I can be sure that it would be easier for the world to put 
pressure on Isreal to withdraw and eventually lead to the 
negotiating table.

So in the meantime, I am with the Isrealis and praying for them 
and also for the Palestinian people. May God keep all those who 
want peace, safe.

I have to admit that the Palestinians did the most ignorant 
thing politically for them by starting the terrorist bombings up 
again directly after several national leaders told Sharon,in no 
uncertain terms,to pull back their troops.

 From CNN Sat.apr 13:A senior Palestinian official said the 
Palestinians think the postponement of the Powell-Arafat meeting 
is being used as "blackmail" to pressure Arafat into condemning 
Friday's bombing. The official said Arafat will not condemn the 
bombing until the United States and Israel condemn the killing of 
hundreds of Palestinians in Israel's current military campaign in 
the West Bank.

Sounds kind of like two children arguing over a favorite 
toy,doesn't it?Except for one thing:Arafat is in no position to 
refuse much of anything at this point. 

How can Powell tell Israel to pull back troops now,after Arafat 
has shown the whole world that peace is not what he wants at 
all?Arafat was beginning to look like the victim,but now looks 
like a liar and a fool.I can't believe someone could be so very 
stupid,and uncaring of his peoples fate.

Hi Walter, I believe I have never respond to you before. Anyway 
nice to received post.

You are right Walter, it just like a kid game. Two kid fighting 
for the Toys (The Holy Land) The stronger boy Isreal(A) have it 
first but the weaker boy Palestinian (B) wanted all not some. So 
daddy have to come and ask them to share. B reluctantly agree 
and have plan to win not only those toys that A agree to part to 
him but all the toys. So through time they will start fighting, 
of course the stronger boy win most of the time. And each time 
when daddy steps in to break up the fight and while A is moving 
away B will come and kick him again, so A turn around and 
starting hittin him again. So who do you think Daddy is going to 
cane. Yes both but we can see who is creating the trouble.

Take Care, Have wonderful weekend. God Bless

How did the whole trouble started. This was something I read.

Sharon probably wishes he were as powerful as the world press 
makes him out to be! Was Ariel Sharon's ascent to the Temple 
Mount a smart thing to do in the current situation? No. Was his 
ascent to the Mount a sufficient "provocation" to trigger off 
the violence we have seen since that Friday? Also no. He went 
unarmed and without violence to visit a Jewish holy site that 
all agree is an act allowed to all Jews. Arab Israeli MKs was 
there as well without "provocation" even though they are Israeli 
Members of Parliament. Let's review.

The Thursday before Sharon's visit, an Israeli Border Patrol 
soldier was murdered by a double roadside bomb inside of Israel, 
an unprovoked act of violence we had not seen in years. The next 
morning (before Sharon's ascent to the Mount) a Palestinian 
policeman, on a joint patrol with an Israeli partner, pulled his 
automatic rifle on his partner murdering him and then wounded 
another Israeli policeman. When Sharon ascended the Mount, he 
saw the mounds of boulders which had been prepared well in 
advance for pelting Jewish worshipers at the Western Wall below. 
There was obviously well planned uprising in the wings waiting 
for a convenient spark which Sharon provided. It is clear to 
Israeli security forces that that spark would have come from 
somewhere else eventually.

After he left, the Imam in the El Aksa mosque on the Mount 
whipped the congregation (about 2 thousand worshipers) into a 
frenzy repeating the "new Palestinian truth" that the Israelis 
have secret plans to take over the mount and destroy the mosques 
there and that Sharon represented their scout. The Moslem sermon 
on the Temple Mount today included the following supplications: 

"We want the battle against the enemy to be orderly. We want 
dead amidst the enemy. We want to kill and not be killed. We 
must fight guerrilla warfare."


Thus the violence started as the crowds surged out after their 
prayers and began throwing the awaiting boulders over the wall 
and surging into the Old City to take over and burn an Israeli 
police station there, severely injuring a number of policeman 
who did not shoot into the crowds. Did you see it on the news?

We again ask the world, did the unarmed visit of a Jew to the 
Temple Mount justify this past week's violence? Are we to then 
assume that the Palestinian people are so out of control that 
any act to which they object may produce such violence as the 
only response? How then are we to trust any peace agreement? How 
then are we to trust Palestinian sovereignty in the Old City or 
trust them as our peaceful neighbors? Why is it that the world 
ignores the fact that the only time in history that there has 
been unlimited access to all religions to their holy sites in 
the Old City has been since the 1967 re-capture of the Old City 
by Israel?

How did the whole trouble started. This was something I read.

Sharon probably wishes he were as powerful as the world press 
makes him out to be! Was Ariel Sharon's ascent to the Temple 
Mount a smart thing to do in the current situation? No. Was his 
ascent to the Mount a sufficient "provocation" to trigger off 
the violence we have seen since that Friday? Also no. He went 
unarmed and without violence to visit a Jewish holy site that 
all agree is an act allowed to all Jews. Arab Israeli MKs was 
there as well without "provocation" even though they are Israeli 
Members of Parliament. Let's review.

The Thursday before Sharon's visit, an Israeli Border Patrol 
soldier was murdered by a double roadside bomb inside of Israel, 
an unprovoked act of violence we had not seen in years. The next 
morning (before Sharon's ascent to the Mount) a Palestinian 
policeman, on a joint patrol with an Israeli partner, pulled his 
automatic rifle on his partner murdering him and then wounded 
another Israeli policeman. When Sharon ascended the Mount, he 
saw the mounds of boulders which had been prepared well in 
advance for pelting Jewish worshipers at the Western Wall below. 
There was obviously well planned uprising in the wings waiting 
for a convenient spark which Sharon provided. It is clear to 
Israeli security forces that that spark would have come from 
somewhere else eventually.

After he left, the Imam in the El Aksa mosque on the Mount 
whipped the congregation (about 2 thousand worshipers) into a 
frenzy repeating the "new Palestinian truth" that the Israelis 
have secret plans to take over the mount and destroy the mosques 
there and that Sharon represented their scout. The Moslem sermon 
on the Temple Mount today included the following supplications: 

"We want the battle against the enemy to be orderly. We want 
dead amidst the enemy. We want to kill and not be killed. We 
must fight guerrilla warfare."


Thus the violence started as the crowds surged out after their 
prayers and began throwing the awaiting boulders over the wall 
and surging into the Old City to take over and burn an Israeli 
police station there, severely injuring a number of policeman 
who did not shoot into the crowds. Did you see it on the news?

We again ask the world, did the unarmed visit of a Jew to the 
Temple Mount justify this past week's violence? Are we to then 
assume that the Palestinian people are so out of control that 
any act to which they object may produce such violence as the 
only response? How then are we to trust any peace agreement? How 
then are we to trust Palestinian sovereignty in the Old City or 
trust them as our peaceful neighbors? Why is it that the world 
ignores the fact that the only time in history that there has 
been unlimited access to all religions to their holy sites in 
the Old City has been since the 1967 re-capture of the Old City 
by Israel?

Does the Palestinian want a state of their own only or the whole 
of Isreal. Read On

Yasser Arafat and his "Palestinian" cohort are among the best 
liars in the world.  While telling Western press they want 
peace, Arafat and his people tell Arabs of their vision of 
conquering Israel and creating (yet) another Muslim state.  This 
is the ultimate objective of Arafat:

"We Palestinians will take over everything, including all of 
Jerusalem....All the rich Jews who will get compensation will 
travel to America....We of the PLO will now concentrate all our 
efforts on splitting Israel psychologically into two camps. 
Within five years we will have six to seven million Arabs living 
in the West Bank and in Jerusalem....You understand that we plan 
to eliminate the State of Israel and establish a purely 
Palestinian State....I have no use for Jews; they are and remain 
Jews. We now need all the help we can get from you in our battle 
for a united Palestine under total Arab-Muslim domination!" - 
Yasser Arafat, January 30, 1996, (Speech) "The Impending Total 
Collapse of Israel", Stockholm, Sweden (1,2)

Is it a wonder why Israelis are so skeptical about making 
a "just and lasting peace" with the Yasser Arafat, 
the "president" of the Palestinian authority?  Having signed the 
Oslo Accords, one would assume that Arafat is a man committed to 
peace.  However, he has shown that this is far from the case - 
he has rejected peace proposals, he propagates hatred against 
Jews in his media and he keeps his "Palestinian gunmen" well 
armed and trained.  Mr. Arafat has not only discussed his goals 
in closed meetings, but he has enshrined these goals in the 
Constitution of the his Fateh faction:

Some of Yasser Arafat's goals, as per the Constitution of the 
Fateh faction, which he leads:

Article (12) Complete liberation of Palestine, and eradication 
of Zionist economic, political, military and cultural existence.


Article (19) Armed struggle is a strategy and not a tactic, and 
the Palestinian Arab People's armed revolution is a decisive 
factor in the liberation fight and in uprooting the Zionist 
existence, and this struggle will not cease unless the Zionist 
state is demolished and Palestine is completely liberated.


But that's not it!  Have you seen Yasser Arafat's goals, as per 
the PLO's 1974 Phased Plan?  Never having been revoked, this 
Phased Plan calls for declaration of independence on any land 
given over by Israel.  The new independent state would be used 
as a launching ground for attacks against Israel.  Sound 
familiar?

There is a Map in Palestinian National Authority State 
Information Service showing the whole Isreal, Gaza, West Bank as 
Palestine. Hmmm? I wonder what Sharon think of it.

Spy: Sorry I couldn't reply. Speaking of God, it was a god 
forsaken time of the morning, probably around 4.30 a.m. before 
my body finally started going on strike from lack of sleep. 
Generally in order to get some kind of immediate response I've 
had to attend this board in the small hours, our time. Not good 
for the body clock.

A fair degree of irate language flys around here from time to 
time. I do understand your sentiments on that point, but as I 
know you're well aware, it's a place to blow off some steam. I'm 
sure you've seen your fair share of things from your 
experiances. I've no connection to the military myself of 
course, but those such as yourself and Walter who have been, 
have my utmost respect for that. That other place you were 
talking about, whatever drift there was, I couldn't quite catch. 
Funnily enough though, there is a place we could have conversed. 
The board on this site I mentioned to you some time ago. Now, 
nobody perhaps seems to be aware of it, but if one selects any 
archived page of say this board, one should then at the top see 
an option for a board called 911terrorists. It's a place for 
quiet contemplation! Crazy Canuck I think would bare testiment 
to that fact!! It's deserted, almost. When I first found this 
site, my google enquiries brought me in onto that board first. 
Way back when, I had an interesting, and fairly peculiar one-way 
conversation with a Vietnam veteran, who on relection I don't 
think had both paddles in the water, to use an American phrase. 
So I've of course in telling you all this, (to use an english 
phrase) let the cat out of the bag. Nevermind. But I tell you 
what, if this site remains in existance I'd be happy to post 
here on Christmas Eve, New Years, Superbowl Sunday (Merlyn take 
note:predictions in advance please:)), and perhaps your nations' 
Thanksgiving holiday if you could spare some turkey. You can 
name a couple of others should you wish to. It would be nice to 
share such days with youreslf and everybody here. Just to say hi 
and have a laugh. How's that? Thanks once again for taking the 
trouble to say hello. I shall look out for your reply. Take care 
my friend.
  

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES


"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

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SHARON BATTERIES

"It keeps going, and going, and going...."
SHARON BATTERIES

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SHARON BATTERIES

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SHARON BATTERIES

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SHARON BATTERIES

I know my commercials are not well-liked on this board, you may 
find them stupid and their(anti-religious) nature is probably 
one of the reasons for you leaving it ("discussing religion is 
not what I'm here for"?), but even so, you have all my sympathy 
and warmest feelings. 
Like before, sorry to see you go. 

theE.S.D.: Nice to hear from you again. I personally (some would 
say)have a rather simplistic and idealistic/naive? view on Iraq. 
To put it in simple terms Saddam Hussein's an evil dictator who 
should be taken out.

There is the point of view that the U.S. wants rid of him for 
it's own security reasons and that is all. Whilst I'm sure 
that's a factor, I'd like to think as do you ,that there are 
moral reasons for his removal. Namely the treatment of his own 
people, the attrocities carried out against the Kurdish 
minorities within his borders, and the threat he poses to his 
neighbours. At present he is going out of his way to be friendly 
with other Arab states, in order to make the idea of an 
international coalition which could side against him, much more 
difficult. He's basically forcing the U.S's hand to go it alone, 
in order to make things as difficult politcally, militarily and 
diplomatically as he can, for it to proceed. It's a sad 
inevitability that if war eventually does come, that there will 
be military casualties on both sides, and loss of innocent 
civilian life. I'm sure a veteran soldier would say that there 
are no true winners in war, there are only degrees of losing. 
With that said, if Saddam and the hierarcy that surrounds him is 
finally removed, through war, it may well be the key not only to 
the region's security, stability and prosperity but that of the 
rest of the world. I hope I'm right on that. It's in all our 
interests to have that region filled with stable democracies. 
The most unfortunate thing is that things may well have to get 
worse before they get better. If the aims of the U.S. the U.K. 
and our allies are truly geniune in their willingness to bring 
eventual peace and prosperity to the region, it's our children 
and grandchildren who will be the beneficiaries, and I guess 
that's what it's all about after all. For them perhaps, what 
happened last year will be a distant but sobering memory of a 
troubled, but by-gone age.

Thanks for bringing us the facts as you've seen them to this 
point in time, and let us hope for the best. Again, take 
care:)    

Thanks for your post Sponsor. I wouldn't worry too much and no 
need to apologise. It's a free access site after all, and as 
such it changes over time, as it should. It's your way of 
expressing your views, and as such, it's just as valid as 
anybody elses including mine. I've always said on here, that 
variety is no bad thing. It's true we get fewer commercials over 
here, but I'm sure you'd agree things have to paid for somehow! 
Keep things going and I do thank you for your second to last 
post btw. That was appreciated. I'm only one guy of course, not 
a nation, but the feeling I get over here is that the U.S. has 
the full support of the majority of the British people, if not 
certain members of our government. We have our anti-U.S. crowd 
over here, sure, but as I say, on balance the pro's just about 
have it. For the sake of discretion, I'll not ask you much David 
Icke paid you for his advertisement:) Typing his name in google 
is liking taking a trip into another dimension as I'm sure 
you've already found. The official Freemasons's site had some 
hilarious things to say about his book entitled "I am me, I am 
free!", especially the front cover, for obvious reasons.

Nice to hear from Our Sponsor, and thanks also for those kind 
thoughts. Bye now.    

Again just to follow up your post, the post I sent to theE.S.D 
was in large degree also aimed at you and Merlyn specifically, 
and others if they're interested in the subject. I'd assume we'd 
both take a roughly similar stance on Iraq, if I maybe so bold 
as to suggest it.

Now, didn't I say Tony would come through....eventually. But 
watch him closely, he's a shifty one, a bit like me. I'm sure 
Mr.Bush appreciates his support, he may not wish to heed what 
our P.M. suggests to him the n'th degree, but with tangible 
support having been shown thus far, I'm sure he's more willing 
to listen to things from him, about the British and European 
perspective on matters, than any other western leaders at 
present.

As I've just said to Spy, I'll check back in to say hello during 
the specific days mentioned if that's O.K.. And now a weather 
prediction: long range forecast. Illinois region, heavy snowfall 
expected 24 Dec 2002.

You have my undoubted respect sir. Once again, it's been a 
plesure talking with you. Take care Om/cf.

Though I don't post too much to you, you should know though, you 
have my respect. You talk the talk, and you walk the walk when 
it comes to being a religious man of peace. You actually give 
religion a good name. I do hope others who have religious 
beliefs follow your fine example.

Now I'm not religious!, but..Godbless:)  

Hi---I just caught your replies.{ For some odd reason--I'm 
really having a hard time getting up and running today.}

Don't have time right now to give a decent reply myself----but 
I'll be back { and hopfully more awake}.

Like Spy, Im not exactly 'snapping to attention' this morning. I 
just wanted you to know I have the utmost respect for you as 
well and will look forward to any posts from you. Feel free to 
use either e-mail address, even the one with the nursey rhyme 
last name. lol! Whats in a name? The person is what counts.

Now I have to check my 'corporation's' big game lottery tickets, 
146 of them! And nobody won, 300 million next week. Im starting 
to wish I didn't start the corp. 2 weeks ago. Take care.

I'm supposed to be leaving, and what am I doing? getting typers 
cramp of course! Again, I've posted to theE.S.D., but that post 
also is aimed for you also. I know you've things to say about 
that region, it's future, and in turn our future. You're 
contemplative posts were good too, there for a little variety.

In the end what most people are genuinely concerned about are 
their friends and most importantly of all, their family. We have 
no kids ourselves, but I know many have here, and I'm sure when 
things like 9,11 happen, it's not oneself one worries about, but 
ones children. How can one protect them in world that for 
whatever reason gets more dangerous, not less. I hope this can 
be reversed, somehow.

The ducks post. Thank you Merlyn.

I'm just happy you know who, has decided not to continue. I just 
hope the dialoge continues along with all the other aspects of 
this board which make it something which you, I and others have 
felt drawn to. It's easy joining this board, it's a dammed sight 
harder to leave it. 

Can't help thinking from time to time, "hmmmm wonder what's 
going on the Afghan-Government board right now", it's 
unpredictability is way too addictive, but it's the people here 
that make it so. One never knows what to expect. Case in point:
Having been here for six months, I'd truly never paid much 
attention to that frog in the corner, or what it looked like it 
was doing. I'd been typing in some spreadsheets late in the 
evening and thought I'd take a break a check the board out. 
Someone posted anonymously not long after I'd accesed the board, 
with a earnest and humourously put query. Both it and the 
anonymous reply cheered me up no end. It was unexpected and 
that's something I'll miss about this board.

As an aside, was driven around in a Pacer way back in the bi-
centenial year, it was like being in a bubble on wheels. Odd 
car. If I'm correct, I believe Pintos had a tendancy to self 
combust. That's a little too unexpected for my liking.
Well enough of this, best be going. I'll ask you to place your 
bets after the NFL draft pick later on this year. Five crates of 
beer and one packet of potato chips (crisps) should do for game 
day sustinance next year.

Its been good to talk to you Merlyn. The best to you and your 
family.

Justice & NC Gal: Just thought I'd say goodbye. Again my best 
wishes to you both.
        

Thanks for your post, I always believe that relgion is led by 
example and not by force. I am glad that many on this board have 
post nice message to me including Sister and till now I have not 
received any nasty post, not even from U know who.

I am happy if I can bring peace and understanding to people of 
different race, language or religion so that we may have lots of 
happiness in our life and our children's life in future. May we 
always continue to pray for world peace so that we can focus our 
attention to nations that is in need.

Have great weekend, God Bless and peace be upon you and your 
family.

In a world all to small for the un controlled hate. My friend 
you have proven one last time to be one I could trust to stand 
against it. Judgment yes, judgment is in question for each life 
taken and each life given. Our responsibility to our children 
and our judgment of how to raise them, as the teenage martyrs so 
sadly prove out my point, is in fact our very future. And as the 
background of this board so gravely depicts, we are letting our 
future die. 
    Next time you see a child, recognize him, for he is your 
future, and you are his past. Wisdom and judgment are the role 
of society and the lessons so desperately needed by our 
children. 
                We are all gods  children in our mother earth s 
arms. "Be happy for me for I go to a better place" when we die 
we go into the future of our children's life, as their children. 
We had best learn to teach.

I remember the post, asking what he was doing. I had never 
really looked closely. I laughed for a minute straight then gave 
my honest opinion, anonamously of course. Whoops!

There was was this littel green man, living in a green house, in 
Greenland and everything he own is green. One day he went for a 
shower in his green bathroom using geen soap, lying happily in 
his green bathtub, suddenly his green doorbell rang. Green, 
Green Green. He remember he has order a pizza. He wrap himself 
with his green bathrobe and when to open the door. As he open 
the door his bathrobe felt exposiing his green things. The pizza 
man was shock and rand across the road and was knock down by a 
car. So what the moral of the story.

















Never cross the road when the green man is flashing. Hehehee

YOU VE GOT TO BE CAREFULLY TAUGHT

 You've got to be taught to hate and fear;
You've got to be taught from year to year;
It's got to be drummed in your dear little ear;
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
of people whose eyes are oddly made
and people whose skin is a different shade.
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you're six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate;
You've got to be carefully taught."
 
From SOUTH PACIFIC by Rodgers & Hammerstein, 1949

Goodbye and best wishes to you.

Nice to see you posting, today-
no-one will mind if you pop in more often than said holidays.
Take care of yourself.
Looked for you in the crowd @ the Queen Mums farewell...

I won't say goodbye (sounds to final). As Spy said, He thinks of 
you as a friend, I believe many of us on this board feel the 
same. So from time to time a post from you would be most 
appreciated. Take Care and All The Best...

   P.S. everyday's a Holiday!  depending on where your at in the 
world...LOL

rat

Ah, No.



Christians begging for their lives...



Besieged Palestinians in Bethlehem church call on Pope, Annan 
AFP 
Bethlehem, April 12 

-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
The Palestinians trapped inside the Church of Nativity in the 
southern West Bank city of Bethlehem since April 2 called on 
Friday in a statement for help from Pope John Paul II and UN 
Secretary General Kofi Annan. 
The penned-up Palestinians demanded the Pope and Annan "protect 
(them) from the Israeli plan... which has the goal of killing us 
without humanitarian, religious, moral or legal consideration," 
the group said, signing their name as the "besieged". 

For 10 days, 200 armed Palestinians, 30 Franciscan priests and 
several civilians have been trapped in the Church of Nativity by 
a ring of Israeli soldiers. 

The men's statement, released by the Lutheran church, is the 
first time the trapped Palestinians have sent an appeal to the 
outside world. 

The Church of Nativity marks the spot where most Christians 
believe Jesus Christ was born. 

http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/130402/dLFOR18.asp




ITALY, 12 APR 2002 (13:50)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
BETHLEHEM, APPEAL OF FRANCISCANS HANDED OVER TO CHIEF RABBI OF 
JEWISH COMMUNITY IN ROME (BRIEF, CHURCH/RELIGIOUS AFFAIRS)  
  
The appeal of the Franciscan Brothers addressed to the entire 
Jewish community of the world, for the restitution of water and 
electricity to the convent of the Nativity in Bethlehem, will be 
directly handed over to the Chief Rabbi of the Jewish Community 
in Rome (Italy), Riccardo Di Segni. It was declared to MISNA by 
Father Gianfranco Pinto Ostuni, spokesman of the Franciscans. 
Father Giacomo Bini, Minister General of the Order of Friars 
Minor (OFM), has entrusted Father Luigi Perugini, to personally 
deliver the desperate appeal of the Franciscan Community to 
Chief Rabbi of Rome, so that the Israeli authorities reactivate 
the supply of water and electricity to the religious barricaded 
inside the Basilica of the Nativity in Bethlehem already for 
eleven days. (CO) 

http://www.misna.org/eng/notizia.asp?id=63103

Jews Attack Christmas Lutheran Church,
smashing doors and breaking windows.

http://www.iht.com/articles/53961.html

What?! Lutheran's in the neighborhood?

That can't be !  Israel must defend itself from Luther!

Lutherans got PCs and Refrigerators,
and those could be very dangerous items.
Israel was fully justified in breaking them.

A frozen chicken leg could be used as a weapon!



Lutherans!
It's their own fault,
they bring this violence down on themselves
with all those songs and after church lunches!

I guess Israel really must draw the line somewhere,
It's bad enough having all the bloody A-rabs running around,
but how could anyone expect them to tolerate Lutherans ?

Messieurs respect s et Dames,  
     
    Mon nom est Diego, j'ai 16 ans, j' cris   demander que vous 
ou dame m'envoyez toute chose, sur le Djibouti, parce que 
j'admire cette nation merveilleuse beaucoup. Depuis longtemps, 
quand c' tait encore petit, j'ai d couvert et j'ai  t  ensorcel  
pour lui, je sens pour le Djibouti, un tr s fort amour. Je serai 
tr s gai et heureux, tr s heureux si je peux avoir un peu de lui 
pr s de moi, pendant que je n'accomplis pas mon plus grand r ve 
de savoir que qui est la plus belle place du monde. Je peux 
sentir d j  la brise dans ma peau, le bonheur, l'inqui tude 
qu'un voyage au Djibouti peut apporter ou simplement le bonheur 
de recevoir une lettre de vous ou dame.     
Djibouti remplit ma vie et le monde de la paix et seul bonheur 
pour exister.  
Djibouti remplit le monde de bonheur et paix.  
  
C'est tr s important pour moi.     
     
Je remercie toute l'attention que j'ai pris.    
     
Merci beaucoup.  
   
J'ai d j   crit beaucoup de temps, mais ils ne m'ont pas 
r pondu, s'il vous pla t, d sirez recevoir toute chose sur 
Djibouti. Ce pays est ma vie, mon r ve. J'aimerai seulement ce 
soyez capable   toucher, la nation qui tant d'amour, bien pr s 
de moi. Depuis que je n'ai pas conditions de la visiter. Encore, 
j'implore, toute chose, ce peut  tre une pi ce, un drapeau, une 
brochure, un livre, une brochure, toute chose,. S'il vous pla t 
cet e-mail est ma derni re tentative. Cet appel est important 
pour moi beaucoup.  
S'il vous pla t, si vous ne pouvez pas m'aider, il pourrait 
passer cet e-mail pour le Gouvernement de Djibouti.  

 
Mon adresse:   
Diego Barbosa da Silva    
Rua Ernane da Silva Pereira, 250,    
Oficinas Velhas     
Barra do Pira  - RJ    
CEP: 27110-310  
Br sil

Yes those coward gunmen hiding inside the church. They are 
probably holding the priests and civilian hostage. I believe the 
priests and the civilian are free to come out from the 
surrounded compound but was hold back by the 200 gunmen fearing 
that the Isreal will attack them when these people are out of 
the church. No, Isreal will not attack the church. I just hope 
the Priest can persuade them to surrender in peace and enlighten 
them with religion but it is difficult to talk to people holding 
gun. One wrong word and you are dead.

Why don't the anti-Jewish Catholics in the Church of Nativity 
turn over the Palestinian criminals to the Israelians?
Why are the Catholics (thus: most Italians in the first place) 
always on the wrong side of things, first in WWII, and now 
again??
-BECAUSE OF THEIR STUPID RELIGION!-
They still hold it against the Jews for having killed their 
Messiah, but then, if they would'nt have, would'nt this really 
have fucked up things for them in centuries to come? After all- 
was'nt the whole thing GODS DESIGN?- And if so - weren't the 
Jews mere pawns on GOD's chessboard??
In this case Catholics should be grateful to Jews for having 
played the game according to their set-up rules!
But maybe all this was just an excuse for trying to get more 
power themselves? - Even in parts of the world where they have 
no business at all?
It is supposed that Jesus was born where on the spot where the 
Church of Nativity stands. Now Catholics are doing their best to 
kill their own God on the very same spot.

Italian newspaper "Il Giorno"

ROMA, 6 APRILE 2002
Palestinesi vestiti come kamikaze: sindacati, Ds e Margherita 
lasciano il corteo per la pace in Medio Oriente....
 . Nonostante il fallimento del corteo, l'unit  alla piazza l' 
ha regalata monsignor Capucci quando dal palco, indicando un 
ritratto di Arafat e citandolo come  il nostro presidente  ha 
riscosso l'applauso dei manifestanti salutando  con ammirazione 
il popolo palestinese e i figli dell'Intifada che andr  avanti 
fino alla vittoria . 
Rome, April 6th 2002

Transl.:
Palestinians dressed up like suicide bombers: unions and several 
political parties leave the march for peace in the Middle 
East....
In spite of the failure of the march,  mons. Capucci (exiled 
Archbisop of Jerusalem) gave the piazza (square) unity by 
indicating a picture of Arafat , calling him  Our President .  
People applauded him while he saluted Palestinians and the 
children of Intifada with admiration and said that Intifada will 
go on untill its victory.
 
He obviously did'nt change his mind since:
23.10.2000:
 
To the Children of the Palestinian People
Bishop Hilarion Cappucci
The Bishop of Jerusalem - in Exile


As an Arab and as the Bishop of Jerusalem, my conscience obliges 
me to defend my parish and my children. Enough is enough! Our 
patience has reached its limit. Our catastrophe has as its cause 
the international Zionist movement, an expansionist, imperialist 
movement, which has made our life miserable since its inception. 
Israel is its implementing agency. 

I send my greetings to all the Arab people who stand in 
solidarity with the Palestinian people and the Al Aqsa Intifada 
in order to express their anger and outrage through mass 
demonstrations. 

Our martyrs are innocent and our wounded are lighted candles 
that show us the path on which we must proceed -- the path to 
return to the Aqsa Mosque, to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, 
to Palestine. This path, however, is filled with thornbs, filled 
with sacrifice. Dawn bursts forth only after the darkness of 
night. Revolution can only occur in the womb of grief, just as 
wheat can only grow when it is buried in the ground. Its death 
is its life, its fertility is its resurrection. 

"I was away from Iraq during the past years, but I was always 
praying for it," said Cappucci, who was deported from Jerusalem 
by Israeli forces 20 years ago because of his support then of 
the Palestinians and the Palestine Liberation Organization. 
Since then, he has been at the Vatican, but never relinquished 
his post as Bishop of Jerusalem. Cappucci praised Iraq for his 
backing of the ongoing Palestinian uprising and for extending 
assistance to the Palestinians fighting Israeli occupation. 
www.misna.org/eng/notizia.asp?id=63103 





 

Old news, but it shows what living in the town of Jesus 
is like now-a-days for christians:




Supposedly Israeli Sniper kills alter boy claims this source:
http://www.orthodox.net/news/2001-10-21-johnny-thalgieh.html





Well Golly Molly!


Alter boys are obviously a danger to the Nation State of Israel.

They are known for having lit candles in their hands,
ringing bells and carrying around books offensive to everyone,
books like 'the Bible' and other such anti-Israeli writings.

And playing outside with little children? The Nerve!

The boy obviously provoked the sniper by 
walking about, completely unarmed.
That outraged the sniper -
he had no choice but the kill the boy.




Excellent Marksmenship wins again!

He was struck in the chest Saturday by a large-caliber bullet, 
apparently fired from an Israeli position on a ridge a half-mile 
away with a clear line of sight into Manger Square. 

When he was hit, at dusk, he was playing with his 4-year-old 
cousin Michael, hoisting him skyward and then setting him down. 
A burst of fire raked Manger Square from the southeast -- the 
one exposed corner of the enclosed stone-faced plaza. 

Half a mile!  

Half a friggin mile and 
still he has a clean
kill of the Christian boy!





You wonder why with snipers like that,
why don't they have peace yet,
simply by elimination of all resistance 
to their occupation?

I would like to think that Islam is good as I mention many time 
but the street protest in many part of the world and the word 
they use make me feel that all they want is war, revenge, 
retaliation. Why don't they ask those question, who started it. 
whose land is it, the historical part. The ancestors part, the 
religious part. Isreal give them those land in West Bank and yet 
the are not satified. Isreal have history on those part of land.

Who are the Palestinian?, are they the desendent of the 
philistine who own the Gaza Strip? No, they are refugee from 
Arab Nation.

Have read some article regarding these.

Something I read.

If you believe what you read in most news sources, Palestinians 
want a homeland and Muslims want control over sites they 
consider holy. Simple, right?

Well, as an Arab-American journalist who has spent some time in 
the Middle East dodging more than my share of rocks and mortar 
shells, I've got to tell you that these are just phony excuses 
for the rioting, trouble-making and land-grabbing.

Isn't it interesting that prior to the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, 
there was no serious movement for a Palestinian homeland?

"Well, Farah," you might say, "that was before the Israelis 
seized the West Bank and Old Jerusalem."

That's true. In the Six-Day War, Israel captured Judea, Samaria 
and East Jerusalem. But they didn't capture these territories 
from Yasser Arafat. They captured them from Jordan's King 
Hussein. I can't help but wonder why all these Palestinians 
suddenly discovered their national identity after Israel won the 
war.

The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never 
Land. The first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the 
Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple 
and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, 
the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. The name 
was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered 
by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to 
add insult to injury. They also tried to change the name of 
Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying 
power.

Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an 
autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic 
and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by 
the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at 
least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.

There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct 
Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as 
Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, 
indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), 
Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs 
control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents 
one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.

But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is 
ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. 
Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions 
the Israelis make, it will never be enough.

What about Islam's holy sites? There are none in Jerusalem.
Shocked? You should be. I don't expect you will ever hear this 
brutal truth from anyone else in the international media. It's 
just not politically correct.

I know what you're going to say: "Farah, the Al Aqsa Mosque and 
the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem represent Islam's third most 
holy sites."

Not true. In fact, the Koran says nothing about Jerusalem. It 
mentions Mecca hundreds of times. It mentions Medina countless 
times. It never mentions Jerusalem. With good reason. There is 
no historical evidence to suggest Mohammed ever visited 
Jerusalem.

So how did Jerusalem become the third holiest site of Islam? 
Muslims today cite a vague passage in the Koran, the seventeenth 
Sura, entitled "The Night Journey." It relates that in a dream 
or a vision Mohammed was carried by night 

"from the sacred temple to the temple that is most remote, whose 
precinct we have blessed, that we might show him our signs. ..." 
In the seventh century, some Muslims identified the two temples 
mentioned in this verse as being in Mecca and Jerusalem. And 
that's as close as Islam's connection with Jerusalem gets -- 
myth, fantasy, wishful thinking. Meanwhile, Jews can trace their 
roots in Jerusalem back to the days of Abraham.

The latest round of violence in Israel erupted when Likud Party 
leader Ariel Sharon tried to visit the Temple Mount, the 
foundation of the Temple built by Solomon. It is the holiest 
site for Jews. Sharon and his entourage were met with stones and 
threats. I know what it's like. I've been there. Can you imagine 
what it is like for Jews to be threatened, stoned and physically 
kept out of the holiest site in Judaism?

So what's the solution to the Middle East mayhem? Well, frankly, 
I don't think there is a man-made solution to the violence. But, 
if there is one, it needs to begin with truth. Pretending will 
only lead to more chaos. Treating a 5,000-year-old birthright 
backed by overwhelming historical and archaeological evidence 
equally with illegitimate claims, wishes and wants gives 
diplomacy and peacekeeping a bad name.

Another interesting subject I read.

The three monotheistic religions of the world either began or 
perpetuated themselves through wars and holy battles. The two 
oldest of these religions, Judaism and Christianity, learned 
eventually to put away the sword and center their religions on 
faith in their God and acts of loving-kindness in the world.

The third religion, Islam, still separates the world into 
the "Lands of Islam" and the "Lands Under the Sword". The 
violent acts of recent days, instigated by the Imams in the 
mosques, show that Islam continues to put little value on human 
life and continues to believe that the world will be converted 
to Islam through violent subjugation. Any concept of sharing 
space or land in which there is a Muslim presence is anathema to 
them (no non-believer may even enter the city of Mecca).

In addition, they find it necessary in every way possible to try 
to negate all holy site claims of other religions, particularly 
Judaism, as we are witnessing with their denial that the Temple 
Mount ever housed a Jewish temple along with the denial that 
Joseph's tomb was a Jewish holy site. This, all ironically, 
while Jews the world over turn towards Jerusalem to pray, 
Muslims (even in Israel) turn their backs on Jerusalem as they 
turn towards Mecca.

When will the world media awaken and realize that Islam is not 
the peaceful faith it pretends to be and that the 
Islamic "cause" is, by definition, a violent one? Even as they 
report on the world's hottest trouble spots, overwhelmingly 
caused by Islamic violence, they continue to paint the 
Palestinians and the surrounding Arab world as victims and not 
the aggressors they are.

And so, these are very sad times for us as a people. What many 
don't comprehend is that they are perhaps even sadder times for 
the world at-large. If the world's moral compass becomes so 
warped as to accept almost any act against Israel as legitimate, 
where does that end? Israelis watched in stunned silence as 2 
thousand Palestinian supporters crowded into Times Square. We 
see it as the ultimate chutzpah and ask where the AMERICAN Jews 
are?

So my friends, it is a very sad start to a new year. I am 
heading for our hospital, where I will be for at least the next 
17 hours as we are the government army evac hospital for all of 
Northern Israel. As you might suppose, we are on high alert. A 
nice way to spend my Yom Kippur.

Those of you who believe, please pray for the Peace of Jerusalem 
and our nation as a whole. Those of you who don't, we could sure 
use some positive energy, thoughts, and actions coming our way. 
We feel abandoned as in no time in recent history. Whether you 
even support Israel itself, support truth and justice and don't 
allow lies to warp your thinking and that of your friends..

In dreams of peace,

Stuart, Wendy, Josh, Noach and Eli

Thank you for proving beyond a reasonable doubt, it was a stray 
bullet that killed the boy. That happens in war. That also 
happens every day on the streets of America.

I will be posting to you soon------should be within the next 48
hours. Please keep a watch out for it if you would.
( Oddly enought----the movie entitled "Fail Safe" is playing in 
the background on the tele right now ------)

hi friend, im thinkin about letting a black guy have anal sex 
with me, im so sick of white guys.  What do you think??  

I found this site, interesting, have you seen it.

http://www.isrealarabconflict.com/

Check it out.

my ass is getting wet just thinkin about it, i say go for it!!

                      friends

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1925000
/1925760.stm


JEWS DESTROY EYE CLINIC...

I guess if christians and palistinians can't get glasses,
they can't see as well to throw rocks at the Israeli tanks!

BBC:
"Tom Kay found at an eye clinic in a medical aid centre 
downtown. 

He is a British national living in Ramallah. 

"Here the soldiers literally went from the top to the bottom of 
the building," he says. 

"They pulled every machine on to the floor and smashed it. All 
the computers are gone, the optemetric equipment was on the 
floor upside down, all the glasses are in piles on the floor. 

"Every door has been broken into whether it was locked or not 
but, in addition, next to the door, they have smashed a man-
sized hole through just to make sure." 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1925000
/1925760.stm

Tanks now won't have to worry 
about getting paint scratched
when hit by children's rocks...

Poor Eyesight - Poor Aim! 



WHY IS THE USA CENSORING ALL THE NEWS OF JEW WAR CRIMES?



The truth is easily found on the BBC, and many other foriegn 
news systems.

The USA?  

Nothing...

=======================

The Start of the Conflict





THE heart of the current issue of the conflict between Arabs 
and Jews and Christians goes back to the time of God's 
covenant with Abraham.  The media outlets try to figure out 
the conflicts by tracing events back just 10-20 years when 
the events should be traced back to the beginning. It is 
impossible to understand unless this is done. 

Interestingly, the Arabs, Christians, and Jews include 
Abraham as a main source to the foundation of their beliefs. 
Why would this be? The Bible tells us that Abraham was a 
just man who feared God. Fearing the Lord is absolutely 
essential to life:

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools 
despise wisdom and instruction. 
Proverbs 1:7

Because Abraham revered the Lord properly, God chose to 
use him to bless the entire world:

I will indeed bless you, and I will multiply your descendants 
as the stars of heaven and as the sand which is on the 
seashore. And your descendants shall possess the gate of 
their enemies. Genesis 22:17

Abraham had a wife Sarah who the Lord had promised a 
son to. Though both of them had increased in age, they still 
had faith in the Lord's promise to them. Abraham had a son 
Ishmael first through his Egyptian bondservant Hagar 
because his wife had not been able to conceive up to that 
point. When Abraham was 100 years old and Sarah was 90, 
she had his son Isaac--the Lord fulfilled his promise as he 
always does. 

But Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she 
had borne to Abraham, playing with her son Isaac.  So she 
said to Abraham, "Cast out this slave woman with her son; 
for the son of this slave woman shall not be heir with my 
son Isaac." And the thing was very displeasing to Abraham 
on account of his son. But God said to Abraham, "Be not 
displeased because of the lad and because of your slave 
woman; whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for 
through Isaac shall your descendants be named. And I will 
make a nation of the son of the slave woman also, because 
he is your offspring. Genesis 21:9-13

Having sons with his wife Sarah (Isaac) and his 
bondservant Hagar (Ishmael), the stage was now set for the 
conflict to begin. God promised the seed of Abraham to be 
blessed through Isaac and not Ishmael. God foreshadowed 
his offering of his only Son Jesus by asking Abraham to 
offer his only beloved son Isaac:

After these things God tested Abraham, and said to him, 
"Abraham!" And he said, "Here am I." He said, "Take your 
son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land 
of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one 
of the mountains of which I shall tell you." 

So Abraham rose early in the morning, saddled his ass, 
and took two of his young men with him, and his son Isaac; 
and he cut the wood for the burnt offering, and arose and 
went to the place of which God had told him. On the third day 
Abraham lifted up his eyes and saw the place afar off. Then 
Abraham said to his young men, "Stay here with the ass; I 
and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to 
you." And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and 
laid it on Isaac his son; and he took in his hand the fire and 
the knife. So they went both of them together. And Isaac said 
to his father Abraham, "My father!" And he said, "Here am I, 
my son." He said, "Behold, the fire and the wood; but where 
is the lamb for a burnt offering?" Abraham said, "God will 
provide himself the lamb for a burnt offering, my son." 

So they went both of them together. When they came to the 
place of which God had told him, Abraham built an altar 
there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, 
and laid him on the altar, upon the wood. Then Abraham put 
forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. But the 
angel of the LORD called to him from heaven, and said, 
"Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here am I." He said, "Do 
not lay your hand on the lad or do anything to him; for now I 
know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your 
son, your only son, from me." 

And Abraham lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, 
behind him was a ram, caught in a thicket by his horns; and 
Abraham went and took the ram, and offered it up as a burnt 
offering instead of his son. So Abraham called the name of 
that place The LORD will provide; as it is said to this day, 
"On the mount of the LORD it shall be provided." And the 
angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from 
heaven, and said, "By myself I have sworn, says the LORD, 
because you have done this, and have not withheld your 
son, your only son, I will indeed bless you, and I will multiply 
your descendants as the stars of heaven and as the sand 
which is on the seashore.   Genesis 22:1-17

The Koran teaches it was Ishmael, not Isaac that was 
almost sacrificed and that Ishmael was the promise, the 
messenger, and prophet.  Also mention in the Book (the 
story of) Ismael: He was (strictly) true to what he promised, 
and he was an apostle (and) a prophet. (19:55) So when 
they had both submitted their wills (to God), and he had laid 
him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice) Sura 37:103).

 Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!  - thus indeed do. We 
reward those who do right. For this was obviously a trial 
(Sura 37:105-106).

The God of Scripture becomes known as the God of 
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Ishmael is not included in this 
because he was not part of the promise, although God did 
bless him as part of the family. The Bible records that Isaac 
was Abraham s  only son  three times (Gen. 22:2, 12, 
16).Gen. 32:9  Then Jacob said,  O God of my father 
Abraham and God of my father Isaac, the LORD who said to 
me, 'Return to your country and to your family, and I will deal 
well with you'".

Islam claims that Abraham traveled with Ishmael to Mecca. 
Alfred Guillame, a professor of Arabic and Islamic studies, 
states that  there is no historical evidence for the assertion 
that Abraham or Ishmael was ever in Mecca, and if there 
had been such a tradition it would have to be explained how 
all memory of the Old Semitic name Ishmael (which was not 
in its true Arabian form in Arabian inscriptions and written 
correctly with an initial consonant Y) came to be lost. The 
form in the Koran is taken either from Greek or Syriac 
sources.  (From Islam, by Alfred Guillame, Penguin Books 
Inc., 1956, pp. 61-62.) Dr. Guillame points out that many 
words in the Koran do not yield a meaning unless they are 
traced back to their Hebrew or Syriac sources, which is 
significant because the Koran claims to have been written in 
only Arabic and no other language.

The Koran does not recognize Israel and removes her as 
being a chosen people and nation. In its place are the Arab 
people, descendants of Ishmael. One of the major annual 
feasts celebrated in Islam is called Ishmael, a 
commemoration of Abraham's willingness to offer Ishmael 
instead of Isaac on the mount. Ishmael (and his seed, the 
Arabs) replaces Isaac (and his seed, the Jews) as the 
Promised Seed. This becomes a more serious challenge to 
Scripture as Jesus Christ who is the seed of promise is 
brought into the picture.

God labeled Ishmael in the Bible as  a wild donkey of a man 
whose hand will be against everyone, and everyone's hand 
against him, and he will dwell (settle, encamp) in the 
presence ( in the face ) of his brothers.  (Genesis 16:1-12; 
17:2-21; 21:8-21; 25:9,12-18)

As I scan the nightly newscasts, I can't help but to recall 
God's description of Ishmael and the Arab people being 
wild and barbaric. It is common to see mobs of people in 
these countries burning flags, throwing rocks, and fighting. 
In fact, it rarely seems like any of them have been at peace 
during any portion of their lives. If they did get to heaven, 
what would they do? What cause would they have to fight 
for? I count my blessings daily to be a part of a country that 
loves peace.  

See, I have set the land before you; go in and possess the 
land which the LORD swore to your fathers-- to Abraham, 
Isaac, and Jacob-- to give to them and their descendants 
after them. Deuteronomy 1:8

In Isaiah 60:16 we find that God calls Himself after the 
patriarch he made covenant with for the people of Israel. 
You shall know that I, the LORD, am your Savior And your 
Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.  He never calls himself 
the God of Ishmael along with Abraham or Isaac. Let's look 
at the land of Israel, specifically Jerusalem. Jerusalem is 
mentioned over 700 times in the Jewish Tanach, yet it is not 
mentioned once in the Koran. It was King David who 
founded the city of Jerusalem and the Jewish people lived 
there. Mohammed never traveled to Jerusalem. Jerusalem 
has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim nation or 
group, and up until recent times Arab leaders did not go 
there to visit. So this territory becomes part of the equation 
today. 

In the Abrahamic Covenant there are 3 provisions: to 
Abraham; to the Seed, Israel; and to the Gentiles. It includes 
the entire Jewish nation: the descendants of Abraham, 
Isaac, and Jacob.

In the genealogical record, Luke the historian traces Christ 
back to be  the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of 
Abraham, the son of Terah (Luke 3:34). This clearly portrays 
Jesus as a Jew who is traced to Abraham.

The prophets after Abraham were Jewish prophets called to 
the Hebrew people. The apostle Peter spoke saying,  But 
those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His 
prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 
 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be 
blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the 
presence of the Lord,  and that He may send Jesus Christ, 
who was preached to you before,  whom heaven must 
receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God 
has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the 
world began.  For Moses truly said to the fathers, 'The Lord 
your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your 
brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says 
to you. 'And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that 
Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.' 
 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who 
follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these 
days.  You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant 
which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, 'And 
in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.' 
 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent 
Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your 
iniquities  (Acts 3:18-26).

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the 
Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham 
beforehand, saying,  In you all the nations shall be 
blessed.  So then those who are of faith are blessed with 
believing Abraham. Galatians 3:8-9  

This Gospel is the good news in the New Testament 
delivered to us by the apostles. It tells us our sins are 
forgiven because of Jesus' death on the cross and that we 
have eternal life because he rose from the dead. Once 
again, this offer is open to anyone and the message is love 
and salvation. The message of the Koran is much different.


Jesus or Mohammed?

 



JESUS //MOHAMMED                                        
                                                             
Jesus  name means God is Savior, Immanuel-God with us 
as our Savior 
Mohammed's name means praised one
Born about 4 BC. in Bethlehem Born of the Virgin Mary 
Isa.7:14 had no earthly father Mt.1 
Born of Aminah In 570 A.D. in Mecca
Raised by Mary His mother and Joseph, His adopted father  
Raised by his mother, Halima the nurse, then his uncle and 
grandfather
Prophesied by more than 300 scriptures for his first coming, 
Fulfilled them all including Deut.18:15 
Muslims believe Mohammed is prophesied as the 
Comforter. and the prophet of Deut.18:15
Labored as a carpenter like his stepfather in Nazareth 
His father was named Abd Allah after Allah. Started as a 
shepherd then became a camel-caravan leader
Spoke in Hebrew, Aramaic, and probably Greek 
Spoke only Arabic--Muslims say he was illiterate
Was literate, but wrote no books. He directly commissioned 
his dedicated followers  to write and preach his message 
Was literate and wrote the Koran or as some say, others 
heard his sayings and wrote them down as well.
Attracted multitudes by His teaching of God affirming the OT. 
Taught openly to multitudes as one having authority 
Attracted multitudes by his teaching and by the sword 
forcefully overthrowing the worship of multiple Gods.
Miracles and healings were given freely. He healed all kinds 
of diseases 
The Koran is his miracle. Did no miracles of healing or 
delivering people from demons
Moved to Capernaum because of rejection by His 
townspeople and brothers and sisters 
Had to move to Medina because of rejection by his 
townspeople
Was never married 
Married to at least fifteen wives, one of which was only 9 
years old at the time
Lived a sinless life, never once prayed for forgiveness like 
other sinners--he forgave others 
Prayed often for forgiveness of his sins as did all the 
prophets in the OT and NT
Waged no war, said his kingdom was not of this world so 
his followers should not fight 
Was a warrior who waged war by fighting or leading in 
sixty-six battles to spread his message of monotheism 
Ordered the death of no one but instead died in place of the 
guilty 
Ordered the death of many men and women (the first was a 
poetess) to promote the message of monotheism
Established a religion of truth, mercy and love even for 
enemies-- invites all to come to him 
Established a monotheistic belief system--an earthly 
empire Teaching all must obey the teachings of the Koran
Established a relationship with God and a spiritual kingdom 
not of this world that will last forever with Him as the ruler 
Established a religion of God being compassionate and 
merciful  to the obedient but there are no guarantees for 
anyone
Died by crucifixion for others in Jerusalem at age 33 being 
innocent of any crime 
Died in Medina due to effects of pneumonia at age 62
Arose from the dead the third day as he predicted. Tomb 
remains empty. Promises to raise everyone and judge all 
Still lingers in his grave awaiting the Day of Judgment by 
Jesus
Jesus is mentioned in the Koran 97 times 
Mohammed is mentioned in the Koran 25 times
Old Testament predicts His 2nd coming in more Scriptures 
than his first 
Mohammed had only self-fulfilling prophecy, nothing in the 
Old Testament predicted his coming
Over 1,500,000,000 claim to be His followers. Are known for 
their dedication, love, and caring for others. Building 
hospitals, feeding the poor and helping to educate people 
all over the world showing the compassion of God. 
1 billion are followers who are dedicated, zealous and still 
use force if necessary against non-Muslims 
Christ prophesied  the end of the age and what it would be 
like when he comes again. The Old and  New Testament 
will be fulfilled by his 2nd coming 
There is no teaching on Mohammed coming back again to 
rule or reign
  
 

Weigh the evidence with a humble, open mind and you can 
gain eternal salvation! Remember what Jesus said:

"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the 
Father except through me." 


Basic Teachings of Islam

 


Islam could very well be listed as the fastest growing 
religion in the world today. Estimates of its followers 
(Muslims) range from a conservative 800 million to 1.5 
billion worldwide. This means that about 1 out of every 5 
people on Earth is a Muslim. This population extends to 40 
countries on 3 continents.

There are 2 major sects of Islam - the Sunnis make up 80- 
90% of the Muslim population and the Shiites comprise the 
rest. The Shia is a sect of all which broke off from the main 
body of Muslims in the 7th century (which they call their 1st 
century). The division arose over a dispute that concerned 
the succession of leadership after Mohammed's death. The 
Shiites favored Mohammed's son-in-law and nephew: All 
believed that the caliph should have divine appointment and 
not be elected by men.

The 2nd disagreement for the Shiites concerned the 
Doctrine of lmam. An Imam is a divinely appointed leader 
that will guide the people. New ones appear from time to 
time as they are needed. Throughout the history of Islam, 
numerous men have claimed this position. The Sunnis 
believe that the Imam is just the leader of the Friday night 
prayer service and nothing more.

The Sunniites make up the majority of the population in 
countries such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan. The 
Shiites populate Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, and parts of Africa and 
are the fundamentalists that we hear about so often on the 
news. They are also very active in the war for the Holy Land.

Both conservative and fundamentalist Muslims believe in a 
jihad, or Holy War. There are different interpretations of what 
a Jihad really is: Conservatives consider the Jihad to be a 
spiritual war, while the fundamentalists see it as literal.

There are also cults that have arisen from Islam such as the 
Baha'is. It is the group's goal to unite all religions under 
their prophet, Baha'u'lah. He has many similar claims to the 
Muslims' prophet Mohammed, one of which is being the 
comforter and successor to Christ.

Other Islam-based cults or offshoots of Islam include the 
Sufis (mystics), and the Druze (Shiite mystics). In addition, 
there are the Black Muslims who belong to the Nation of 
Islam, led by Louis Farrakhan.

Although a majority of Arabs are Muslims, not all Muslims 
are Arabs. We are probably familiar with certain Arab 
countries that are Islamic, but are not so familiar with the 
many non-Arab countries that are comprised of a Muslim 
majority. Here are some examples: Indonesia (pop. 195.6 
million; 87% Muslim), Sumatra (pop. 1.8 million; 99% 
Muslim), Turkey (99.8% Muslim), Yemen (99.9% Muslim), 
Afghanistan (pop. 18 million; 99% Muslim), Central Africa 
(Chad 90%; Sudan - 70%; Nigeria - 40%), Pakistan (97% 
Muslim), Bangladesh (85% Muslim - Note: These non-Arab 
countries are equal in Muslim population to Arab Muslim 
countries), and Iraq (pop. 22.4 million; 95.4% Muslim).

The above-mentioned are just a few statistics to 
demonstrate Islam's great influence throughout the world. 
Almost 1/5 or more of the people on earth are Islamic.

In the United States, there are anywhere from 6 to 8 million 
Muslims. There are presently more Muslims than there are 
Episcopalians and Methodists, with 1500 mosques (Muslim 
temples) throughout America.

Islam first made its way onto American soil in 1860 with 
Syrian and Lebanese immigrants. In the last 20 years, 
Islam has seen tremendous growth.

Islam is promoted strongly on college campuses. One-fifth 
of more than 400,000 international students in the U.S. 
comes from Islamic countries. We have 80,000 Muslims 
currently attending our universities.

In the U.S. Armed Forces there are approximately 10,000 
Muslims. In 1993, the army needed to commission a 
Muslim chaplain to care for its needs. This is a conflict in 
their religion since the majority of Shiite Muslims consider 
Americans to be satanic. But the majority that are here in 
America are Sunni, and very conservative and would even 
be considered liberals to the rest of the Muslims in other 
countries throughout the world.

Why has Islam come to America and how has it grown so 
much in so little time? The Muslims believe it is their duty to 
evangelize the world with what they consider to be the last 
prophet's message. In their view, Mohammed was the final 
revelation to all mankind. Muslims pray 17 prayers five times 
a day. They will fast almost a whole day for nearly a month 
during their religious period called Ramadan. This is a 
celebration of Allah in which they thank him for the Koran. 

What are the tenets of the Islamic faith ? A true Muslim must 
accept 5 main articles of faith. These are known as The 
Shahada (witness) :

lst Article : Belief in Allah as the one true God. This is a strict, 
numerical monotheism. A Muslim looks at the 
Judeo-Christian view of a unity in the Godhead with 
contempt.

2nd Article : Belief in angels as instruments of God's will. 
Mohammed allegedly received his revelation from the angel 
Gabriel.

3rd Article : Belief in the 4 inspired books - the Torah (5 
books of Moses), the Zabur (the psalms), the lnjil (the 
gospel), and the final revelation, the Koran.

Muslims claim that the Koran has been kept perfectly unlike 
the Christian Bible. While they claim to respect the Bible, 
they also believe that it has been corrupted. The Muslims 
make incredible claims about their writings and will always 
compare our Bible to the Koran for testing the truth. 
However, many of their claims cannot be substantiated and 
scholars have decidedly proven them untrue.

4th Article : Belief in the 28 prophets of Allah, Mohammed 
being the last and the greatest.

According to Islam, there are 124,000 prophets (Note: No 
one has ever seen the listing of names) which comprised 
the history of the human race, but there are 28 main 
prophets which include : Adam, Noah, Moses, David, 
Solomon, and Jesus. Jesus is viewed as just another 
prophet in line with the others.

5th Article : Belief in a final Day of Judgment.

Only those who obey Allah and his prophet can enter into 
Heaven. All others will be sent to Hell.

So, if one wants to become a Muslim they need to say The 
Shahada, bearing witness that there is no God but Allah. 
The Islamic believer must perform good works which will be 
weighed at the end of his/her life. If Allah is graceful and 
merciful, the Muslim will enter Heaven. However, the Koran 
teaches that Allah is arbitrary in passing out his mercy, and 
no one has any guarantee of making it. The only sure way to 
make it to Heaven is if the Muslim dies in a Jihad. Only then 
will they go directly to Heaven. This is their only assurance 
for salvation. This explains why so many Muslims willingly 
give their lives in terroristic acts for their cause.

There are also 5 obligations that are required for a Muslim -- 
to pray, fast, give alms ( shakat  - 2.5% of their income), 
recite the Shahada while praying, and to make a pilgrimage 
to the Holy Land (the  Hodge ) at least once in their lifetime. 
As they pray, they must face towards Mecca and bow their 
faces to the ground. While Christians meet on Sundays and 
Jews meet on Saturdays, the Muslims meet on Fridays.

The word  Islam  means "submission to God , although it 
did not originally mean this. Dr. M. Braumann, a Middle East 
scholar, states in his book The Spiritual Background of Early 
Islam that Islam originally referred to  that strength which 
characterized a desert warrior who, when faced with 
impossible odds, would fight even to the death of his tribe. 

Who is Jesus to a Muslim, and what do they believe about 
Him? According to Islam, Jesus is a prophet in line with 
many other prophets. Sura 43:59 states  Jesus was no 
more than a mortal whom Allah favored and made an 
example to the Israelites." Muslims think Christians believe 
in three gods and that the trinity consists of father, mother 
and the son. Everything Muslims understand about Jesus is 
wrong because of the incorrect teaching from the Koran. 
They also claim that Jesus was taken to heaven alive 
because God does not allow true prophets to be killed. If 
Jesus is a true prophet to them, how could his teachings 
completely contradict the Koran and His own? It is not 
possible.  How could Allah favor Jesus who claimed to be 
the Son of God and the only way to heaven? 

The fact is that Muslims simply embrace what they believe 
because they want to believe they are the "chosen people" 
rather than seeking out the truth. Jesus' offer is for all 
people who come to him, including repentant Muslims. The 
Koran instructs their own to kill Jews and Christians. Who 
would you want to follow?

According to Islam, Jesus was the Word spoken, not the 
Word as God. For this reason, the Muslims call Jesus the 
Spirit of God, but this term also does not mean he was God 
Himself according to the Islamic interpretation. They believe 
Jesus lived a sinless life without fault, performed miracles, 
and ascended bodily into Heaven.

What Islam excludes is the very purpose that Jesus came 
for which is to die for the sins of the whole world. Muslims 
refuse to believe this since the Koran says that someone 
else took His place on the cross. According to Islam, God 
only kills false prophets so Jesus could not have been 
crucified. Since all false prophets are killed or die, this 
eliminates not only Jesus' death but His resurrection as 
well. It only stands to reason that since Mohammed was not 
killed, he was not a false prophet in the eyes of a Muslim.


===================

the jews have every right to kill,and kill somore, and then keep 
killing. continue to kill..it is unwise to bring a rock to a gun 
fight. palestine is jealous of Israel

The Real Islam




Were the hijackers of September 11, 2001 radicals?  The 
translated version of the Arabic document that was left 
behind instructed the hijackers:  You should pray, you 
should fast. You should ask God for guidance, you should 
ask God for help. Continue to pray throughout this night. 
Continue to recite the Koran.  What verses would they be 
reading before committing this inhumane act?

The Dallas Morning News quoted federal officials as saying 
that a copy of an Arabic-language prayer guide had been 
found in the wreckage of Flight 93. The first four pages of the 
document obtained by The Post recite some basic Islamic 
history about the "prophet fighting infidels with 100 men 
against 1,000".

Were these men wrong or alone in their interpretation and 
representation of Islam? The truth is that young Muslims are 
recruited for Jihad all over the world, especially in Israel. 
Unfortunately they are being used by evil and clever men to 
further their causes. We know now 16 out of the 19 terrorists 
came into America with student visas. There are still 
600,000 foreign students on our soil with student visas, 
something we need to further look into.  

Harvard's Samuel P. Huntington wrote in his book The 
Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order, 
 Muslims make up about one-fifth of the world's population, 
but in the 1990s they have been far more involved in 
intergroup violence than the people of any other civilization. 
The evidence is overwhelming. 

The fact is that 10 out of the 20 top terrorists on the FBI list 
have the name Ahmed or Mohammed as part of their full 
name. What is the message sent when they are named 
after Mohammed? Would Mohammed do such things? 

The Jihad ideology and the dhimmi rules are not in the 
Koran. These apparently were developed by Muslim 
theologians after the death of Mohammed. They were the 
result of the interpretation of some verses in the Koran and 
some from the hadith (their commentaries). These were 
mostly composed during the period of the Islamic conquest 
in the eighth or ninth century when there was a strong 
military confrontation between Christianity and Islam. But it 
is not only Jews and Christians that are in this conflict, but 
also Buddhists, Hindus and any other religion that is not 
Islamic.

A dhimmi is any non-Muslim who is tolerated under the 
Islamic rule of government.

Jihad is the Muslim view that the world is divided into two 
parts: Muslim and the non-Muslims lands. In Islam there is 
the idea of Jihad (the struggle to extend the interests of 
Islam). The Koran speaks of the struggle within oneself 
(inner jihad), the struggle within the Islamic community 
(external jihad), and the struggle among unbelievers (also 
an external jihad). It is this one which becomes a militant 
aggression against those that oppose their beliefs.

Surah 29:68-69, (Al-Ankabut) introduces the idea that the 
Muslim will encounter many who are practitioners of error, 
and it is their duty to be alert to error and not succumb to it. 
 And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie 
against God or rejects the Truth when it reaches Him? Is 
there not a home in Hell for those who reject Faith? Sura 
29:69  And those who strive (Jihad,) in Our (Cause), We will 
certainly guide them to Our Paths: for verily God is with 
those who do right.  The term  Jihad  or  struggle  is used in 
this sense, although it is not the more common use.

In Surah 25:51-52 (Al-Furqan) Muslims are instructed to 
 struggle  against unbelievers with the Koran. This places 
the struggle in the realm of an intellectual struggle.  Had it 
been Our Will, We could have sent a warner to every center 
of population. 52 Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but 
strive (Jihad) against them with the utmost strenuousness 
with the Koran. 

When Mohammad established his community, (the umma) 
his intention was to have both Jews and Christians be part 
of it by paying a designated tax. But they did not accept him 
as a prophet. Sura 2:113  The Jews say: 'The Christians 
have naught (to stand) upon; and the Christians say:  The 
Jews have naught (To stand) upon.  Yet they (Profess to) 
study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those 
say who know not; but God will judge between them in their 
quarrel on the Day of Judgment."

Jihad is the normal state of relationship between the 
non-Muslim and the Muslim. It is a perpetual conflict. The 
concept of Jihad preceded the Crusades by five centuries. It 
was with Jihad that the Christian populations and Jewish 
communities became subject to the Islamic law. If they 
submitted without resistance to the Muslim armies, they 
were given protection by the Islamic ruler, but this was 
protection from the laws of jihad, not protection because 
they were cared for or loved by them. If they paid the tax, (a 
ransom money) their lives were safe. Sura 9:29  Fight those 
who do not believe in Allah   until they pay the tax in 
acknowledgment of superiority and they are in states of 
subjection with willing submission and feel themselves 
subdued  (1917 Maulana Mohammed Ali Translation).

Jizya is the tax levied on Dhimmis by Muslim rulers. A 
Dhimmi is a non-Muslim tolerated under Shari a, Islamic 
rule.

When non-Muslims or a non-Muslim country pays a tribute 
to the Islamic countries, war can be replaced by a temporary 
peace. But if they stop paying the Jizya, (the tax), the jihad 
resumes because jihad is the normal state of relationship 
between the non-Muslim and the Muslim. Those in the early 
growth of Islam that disagreed, that did not want to be 
converted to Islam or to be reduced to slavery, fled to the 
mountains or to other cities. In this era non-Muslims had to 
dress differently (sometime humiliating) when they went out 
in public so that they would not be confused with Muslims. 
Non-Muslims were not allowed to practice their religion in 
public. Those of other religions were not permitted to build 
new synagogues or churches. The Jews could not repair 
their synagogues the Christians their churches and In time 
fall into ruins.

The history of dhimmi, include Jews and Christians are a 
single unit because they are bound together as the People 
of the Book. This phrase the people of the book is used 
several times in the Qu ran. In Sura 5:15:  O people of the 
Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to 
you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over 
much (that is now unnecessary). There hath come to you 
from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book.  Here we 
find that Mohammad s revelation replaces the Old and New 
Testament.

For us to ignore militant Islam s intolerance toward what 
they deem as unbelievers, is a grave and costly mistake. 
There is no middle ground in this kind of jihad, Sura 
9:5,29,41  Slay the idolators [non-Muslims] wherever ye find 
them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and 
prepare for them each ambush. Fight against such of those 
who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah 
nor the last Day . Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, 
and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! 

The Muslim government in Sudan had imposed Islamic law 
in 1993. Over 2 million Sudanese Christians and animists 
have been killed and enslaved since then and few people 
even know about it. For years in Indonesia, the Philippines 
and East Timor, Christians have been massacred by 
Muslims. Coptic Christians in Egypt whose religion arrived 
prior to Islam, have been slaughtered by fundamentalist 
Muslims. The authorities have done little to stop them. Arab 
Christians are oppressed by Muslims in their own lands as 
are Christians in many Arab lands such as Syria, Iraq, and 
Lebanon. Churches and Christian homes in Nigeria are 
being burned and Christians are murdered by militant 
Muslims because they are unbelievers. In Saudi Arabia it is 
illegal to be anything but a Muslim. The death penalty is 
given if one's conscience turns him to another religion, 
especially Christianity. Just recently, a man in China was 
charged with importing Bibles--the punishment for this 
horrible act?--death.

Harvard's Samuel P. Huntington warned us of deluding 
ourselves about the true nature of the Islamic threat.  Some 
have argued that the West does not have problems with 
Islam but only with violent Islamist extremists,  Huntington 
wrote.  Fourteen hundred years of history demonstrate 
otherwise. 

An imam in Gaza earlier this year broadcasted a sermon 
over Palestinian Authority radio calling on Muslims to 
murder Christians and Jews because it is their Islamic duty. 
Broadcasts such as  first we go after the Saturday people 
then the Sunday people  are not uncommon. For it is the 
Koran that says 5:36  The punishment of those who wage 
war against God and His Apostle, and strive with might and 
man for mischief through the land is: execution, or 
crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite 
sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this 
world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.  
So they take a literal interpretation of these verses 
implementing them in their daily lives.

The last hour with the false Christ (Daljal) is an important 
topic in the Hadith as it warns of his coming. According to 
the Bible he will make a peace treaty with Israel. This is 
exactly what this war is about.

Mohammed said,  The last hour will not come before the 
Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them.  (Mishkat 
Al Masabih Sh.M. Ashraf pp.147, 721, 810-11, 1130) It is the 
Hadith that explains the Koran, it is their commentary on the 
writings. Hadith, the body of traditions relating to 
Mohammed and now supplemental to the Koran: He (Abu 
Hurayah) reported the messenger of Allah as saying: The 
last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews 
and the Muslims kill them, so that Jews will hide behind 
stones and trees and the Stone and the tree will say, O 
Muslim, O servant of God! There is a Jew behind me; come 
and kill him. The only exception will be the box-thorn for it is 
one of the trees of the Jews. (Sahih of Muslim, quoted by 
Israel and the Prophecies of Al Koran by Ali Akbar, Bismi 
Publishers 1992, p.44)

What does it mean when Muslims say they are for peace?  
George Braswell, Jr. (B.D., Yale; Ph.D., U of NC) who lived in 
Iran for seven years, defines the word  peace  from a 
Muslim perspective:  The world of Islam must conquer 
and rule over those of ignorance and disobedience . The 
peace of the world cannot be secured until the peoples 
come under the rule and protection of Islam.  (What You 
Need To Know About Islam and Muslims, p. 87)

It is interesting to note the parallels and contradictions 
between what Jesus teaches through the Bible and what 
the Koran teaches through Mohammed. It is impossible for 
both of them to be correct because they contradict each 
other. Furthermore, they are extremely similar with regard to 
the end times. The Bible makes it clear that all the countries 
will gather together against Israel in the latter days and be 
"cut into pieces". The Koran says "the last hour will not 
come before the Muslims kill the Jews". Both sides mention 
the peace agreement with Israel in the end times. According 
to the Bible, that is the beginning of the worst seven year 
period in history. According to the Koran, it will be a time of 
victory and conquest over the Jews. God states through the 
Bible that he will send strong delusion to those who are not 
raptured. Many will believe "the great lie". When millions of 
people suddenly disappear from the earth, Muslims will 
believe that the great Satan (True followers of Christ) has 
been destroyed. They will think Allah has finally judged the 
Jews and Christians and will celebrate, only to find that 
Allah is really Satan and his demonic hosts.

When someone plays the "whore" or "harlot" in the Bible, it 
is referring to spiritual adultery--following a false God. God 
gave us all the ability to reason. He wants to see if we use 
that ability to differentiate between good (Jesus) and evil (all 
others). At first glance, that statement may seem intolerant. 
But Jesus states clearly that if you do not believe that He is 
the Son of God, then you will die in your sins. He is the only 
way to heaven and his invitation is for all people. Most 
people get uncomfortable about having to choose a side, so 
they choose to ignore the issue. Ronald Reagan stated it 
best when he said, "There is no safety in neutrality".  CS 
Lewis made an extremely important observation also in his 
best seller Mere Christianity:  Jesus can only be one of two 
possibilities. He is either the Son of God or the greatest con 
artist who ever lived. THERE IS NO OTHER POSSIBILITY.

                                        

You have to choose and it is the most important choice you 
will ever make. 

Who is Allah?

 

Allah is the name of the only God in Islam. Allah is a 
pre-Islamic name coming from the compound Arabic word 
Al-ilah which means the God, which is derived from the 
word deity. It was also the name of the chief God among the 
numerous idols (360) in the Kaaba in Mecca. Today a 
Muslim is one who submits to the God Allah.

Islam means submission to Allah, but originally it meant 
"strength which characterized a desert warrior who, even 
when faced with impossible odds, would fight to the death 
for his tribe". (Dr. M. Baravmann, The Spiritual Background 
of Early Islam, E. J. Brill, Leiden, 1972)

Many believe the word  Allah  was derived from the 
mid-eastern word  el  which in Ugaritic, Caananite and 
Hebrew can mean a true or false God. 

According to the Encyclopedia of Religion, Allah 
corresponded to the Babylonian god Baal, and Arabs knew 
of him long before Mohammed worshipped him as the 
supreme God. Before Islam, the Arabs recognized many 
gods and goddesses and each tribe had their own deity. 
There were also nature deities. Allah was the god of the 
local Quarish tribe, which was Mohammed's tribe before he 
invented the religion of Islam to lead his people out of their 
polytheism. Allah was then known as the Moon God, who 
had 3 daughters who were viewed as intercessors for the 
people into Allah. Their names were Al-at, Al-uzza, and 
Al-manat, which were three goddesses; the first two 
daughters of Allah had names which were feminine forms 
of Allah. Hubal was the chief God of the Kaaba among the 
other 360 deities. Hubal was a statue likeness of a man 
whose body was made of red precious stones whose arms 
were made of gold. (Reference Islam George Braswell Jr.)

Historians like Vaqqidi have said Allah was actually the chief 
of the 360 gods being worshipped in Arabia at the time 
Mohammed rose to prominence. Ibn Al-Kalbi gave 27 
names of pre-Islamic deities. Interestingly, not many 
Muslims want to accept that Allah was already being 
worshipped at the Kaaba in Mecca by Arab pagans before 
Mohammed came. Some Muslims become angry when they 
are confronted with this fact. But history is not on their side. 
Pre-Islamic literature has proved this.  (G. J. O. Moshay, 
Who Is This Allah? (Dorchester House, Bucks, UK, 1994), 
pg. 138).

History has shown that Mecca and the holy stone al-Kaaba 
were holy sites for pre-Islamic pagan Arabs. The Kaaba in 
Mecca was formerly named Beit-Allah meaning House of 
Allah.

The Koran tells us that Mohammed drove the other idols 
away and that he was the messenger for the one and only 
God. He kept the Kaaba as a holy, sacred place and 
confirmed that the black stone had the power to take away 
sins. He obligated every believer to make a pilgrimage to 
the stone at least once in his lifetime. (Sura 22:26-37) No 
Old Testament saint ever journeyed to the Kaaba and 
kissed its black stone.  Ironically, the Bible uses black 
stones to indicate guilt and white stones to indicate purity 
and innocence:

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the 
churches. To him who conquers I will give some of the 
hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new 
name written on the stone which no one knows except him 
who receives it.  Revelation 2:17

Mohammed used the name Allah which was the name of a 
specific idol without ever distinguishing it from the idol the 
Meccans were already worshipping. This was a 
modification of their former worship but never a complete 
break. He never did direct the people to stop worshipping 
the wrong Allah for the right one.

The addition of the letter T to the end of the name Allah was 
represented by a square black stone that was located in a 
major sanctuary in the city of Taif. This stone represented 
the goddess of fate, a female counterpart of Allah. Al-uzza 
was the goddess of East Mecca. It has been said there 
were human sacrifices made to her and Islamic tradition 
tells of a story of Mohammed s grandfather almost 
sacrificing his son, the father of Mohammed to her. What 
prevented this was his seeking counsel from a fortune teller 
who told him to ransom his son with one hundred camels. 
Muslims look to this as the will of Allah to bring Mohammed 
into existence. (Reference Muhammad husain haykal, Hayat 
Mohammed)

The name Allah, as the Koran itself is witness, was well 
known in pre-Islamic Arabia. Indeed, both it and its feminine 
form, Allat, are found not infrequently among the 
theophorous names in inscriptions from North Africa. (Arthur 
Jeffrey, Islam: Mohammed and His Religion 1958, p. 85.)

The literal name of Mohammed's father in Arabic is Abd 
Allah. His uncle's name Obred Allah. These names show 
the devotion of Mohammed's family's pagan roots and also 
prove that Allah was part of a polytheistic system of worship 
before Allah was made the supreme and only God from the 
other gods. This should be proof to the pre-Islamic root of 
the name of Allah to the Muslim. Remember they were 
pagans who used this name. He kept his family name 
above all other names. 

Mecca was the place where the idol Allah was located, so 
the people would face in that direction when they prayed. 
Prior to Islam the people would pray 5 times a day facing 
Mecca (The Encyclopedia of Islam p.303) and each Arab 
tribe used Allah to refer to its own particular high god. This 
is why Hubal, the Moon god, was the central focus of prayer 
at the Kaaba and people prayed to Hubal while using the 
name Allah. The crescent moon was the symbol of the 
moon God Allah (Hubal) and is still used as a symbol of 
Islam today (although they have changed the meaning to be 
"from Mecca" to the "moon Islam will spread"). Today there 
is hardly a Muslim that knows its ancient origin. History 
records it as an ancient pagan fertility symbol that is found 
throughout the Middle East. Mohammed smashed all the 
idols that led the people into idolatry but the black stone was 
kept which Muslims continue to kiss today. This was 
another practice that preceded Mohammed.

Mohammed made Allah into a single being who, unlike the 
Bible's God, has no son. Because of this portrayal, there is 
no fellowship or love among the godhead before God 
created man. Creation and man therefore become a 
necessity for God to express His attributes or 
characteristics. This God has never revealed Himself to 
man but revealed only His will. This God is so removed from 
man that it is impossible to know him in a personal way. He 
relates to man only through his will and law. 

Of the 99 names of God in Islam, not one is  Father  or has 
a personal connotation. The difference is not to be 
overlooked. The God of the Bible is personal and wants an 
ongoing friendship with each of us. Islam portrays God as 
one who expects us to do our religious duty or He angers. 
There are rules to be obeyed and one can only please him 
but not know him personally. No Muslim would ever 
consider being able to have a personal relationship with 
him by talking to him and loving him. Jesus instead taught 
Christians to pray  our Father in heaven  (Matthew 6:9). 
Throughout the Old Testament God was real to the prophets 
who had him personally speak to them and they to him. 
 Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? 
Why do we deal treacherously with one another by profaning 
the covenant of the fathers?  (Mal 2:10)

Muslims claim that the name Allah can be found in the 
Bible. This is no different than what the Jehovah's 
Witnesses do for the name Jehovah. Allah is not called 
Yahweh once in the Koran but neither is Yahweh called 
Allah in the Bible. So they can't be the same God. Neither is 
the word Elohim which is applied to Yahweh over 2,500 
times in the Bible used in the Koran. Neither is he called I 
Am, which He said to Moses would be His name forever.

The God of the Bible identifies himself as the God of 
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jacob's name is later changed 
to the name Israel, being the father of the 12 tribes of Israel. 
The God of the Bible calls Jerusalem the city of David and 
claims that the Messiah would descend from his lineage. 
The God of the Bible does not mention Mecca or Medina but 
instead Jerusalem 800 times, yet Jerusalem is not 
mentioned in the Koran, which the Muslim claims as their 
own.

Muslims trying to prove their position from the Bible point to 
the Old Testament with the word alleluyah, interpreting the 
first portion of the word alle as Allah. The word [H]alleluyah 
is not a compound Hebrew word. It is not two words but a 
singular word meaning praise to Yahweh. (alle- praise, 
lu-to, yah-Yaweh). The beginning of the word is Hallel 
meaning praise. This has nothing to do with an Allah, and 
the last syllable of the word is a reference to Yahweh the 
God of the Bible--this is hardly evidence for their assertions. 
They are also confusing Aramaic with Arabic. This is not 
unusual, as Muslims will often take words and meanings 
set in another language and culture and adopt them for 
proof of their own book or religion.

This word-play only gets more ludicrous as they claim to 
have Jesus saying the name of their God. When Jesus was 
on the cross they say that when he cried out "Eli, Eli", it was 
really Allah, Allah. The New Testament was written in Greek. 
However it points us to him speaking the Aramaic language, 
not Arabic. Jesus was quoting Psalm 22:1 which when read 
in full says, Eli, Eli Sabbathani  My God, My God why have 
you forsaken me.  What makes even less sense for this 
position is the fact that they don't believe that it was Jesus 
on the cross in the first place, but that another took His 
place. Some think it was Judas. So was it Judas crying out 
Allah, Allah?

The first Arabic translation of the Bible came into existence 
about the 9th century. Nowhere is the name of Allah found 
in the Old or New Testament. When Islam became the 
dominant political force, people were coerced to use the 
name Allah for God or suffer the consequences from the 
hands of militant Muslims. Because of Islam's dominance, 
Allah became the common name of God. The translators of 
the Bible gave in to the religious pressures and substituted 
Allah for Yahweh in the Arabic Bibles, but this is not the 
name of the God of the Hebrews, nor of the Creator who 
made heaven and earth. His nature and attributes have only 
a few basic similarities, yet far more differences.

=================

The Real Islam

Were the hijackers of September 11, 2001 radicals?  The 
translated version of the Arabic document that was left 
behind instructed the hijackers:  You should pray, you 
should fast. You should ask God for guidance, you should 
ask God for help. Continue to pray throughout this night. 
Continue to recite the Koran.  What verses would they be 
reading before committing this inhumane act?

The Dallas Morning News quoted federal officials as saying 
that a copy of an Arabic-language prayer guide had been 
found in the wreckage of Flight 93. The first four pages of the 
document obtained by The Post recite some basic Islamic 
history about the "prophet fighting infidels with 100 men 
against 1,000".

Were these men wrong or alone in their interpretation and 
representation of Islam? The truth is that young Muslims are 
recruited for Jihad all over the world, especially in Israel. 
Unfortunately they are being used by evil and clever men to 
further their causes. We know now 16 out of the 19 terrorists 
came into America with student visas. There are still 
600,000 foreign students on our soil with student visas, 
something we need to further look into.  

Harvard's Samuel P. Huntington wrote in his book The 
Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order, 
 Muslims make up about one-fifth of the world's population, 
but in the 1990s they have been far more involved in 
intergroup violence than the people of any other civilization. 
The evidence is overwhelming. 

The fact is that 10 out of the 20 top terrorists on the FBI list 
have the name Ahmed or Mohammed as part of their full 
name. What is the message sent when they are named 
after Mohammed? Would Mohammed do such things? 

The Jihad ideology and the dhimmi rules are not in the 
Koran. These apparently were developed by Muslim 
theologians after the death of Mohammed. They were the 
result of the interpretation of some verses in the Koran and 
some from the hadith (their commentaries). These were 
mostly composed during the period of the Islamic conquest 
in the eighth or ninth century when there was a strong 
military confrontation between Christianity and Islam. But it 
is not only Jews and Christians that are in this conflict, but 
also Buddhists, Hindus and any other religion that is not 
Islamic.

A dhimmi is any non-Muslim who is tolerated under the 
Islamic rule of government.

Jihad is the Muslim view that the world is divided into two 
parts: Muslim and the non-Muslims lands. In Islam there is 
the idea of Jihad (the struggle to extend the interests of 
Islam). The Koran speaks of the struggle within oneself 
(inner jihad), the struggle within the Islamic community 
(external jihad), and the struggle among unbelievers (also 
an external jihad). It is this one which becomes a militant 
aggression against those that oppose their beliefs.

Surah 29:68-69, (Al-Ankabut) introduces the idea that the 
Muslim will encounter many who are practitioners of error, 
and it is their duty to be alert to error and not succumb to it. 
 And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie 
against God or rejects the Truth when it reaches Him? Is 
there not a home in Hell for those who reject Faith? Sura 
29:69  And those who strive (Jihad,) in Our (Cause), We will 
certainly guide them to Our Paths: for verily God is with 
those who do right.  The term  Jihad  or  struggle  is used in 
this sense, although it is not the more common use.

In Surah 25:51-52 (Al-Furqan) Muslims are instructed to 
 struggle  against unbelievers with the Koran. This places 
the struggle in the realm of an intellectual struggle.  Had it 
been Our Will, We could have sent a warner to every center 
of population. 52 Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but 
strive (Jihad) against them with the utmost strenuousness 
with the Koran. 

When Mohammad established his community, (the umma) 
his intention was to have both Jews and Christians be part 
of it by paying a designated tax. But they did not accept him 
as a prophet. Sura 2:113  The Jews say: 'The Christians 
have naught (to stand) upon; and the Christians say:  The 
Jews have naught (To stand) upon.  Yet they (Profess to) 
study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those 
say who know not; but God will judge between them in their 
quarrel on the Day of Judgment."

Jihad is the normal state of relationship between the 
non-Muslim and the Muslim. It is a perpetual conflict. The 
concept of Jihad preceded the Crusades by five centuries. It 
was with Jihad that the Christian populations and Jewish 
communities became subject to the Islamic law. If they 
submitted without resistance to the Muslim armies, they 
were given protection by the Islamic ruler, but this was 
protection from the laws of jihad, not protection because 
they were cared for or loved by them. If they paid the tax, (a 
ransom money) their lives were safe. Sura 9:29  Fight those 
who do not believe in Allah   until they pay the tax in 
acknowledgment of superiority and they are in states of 
subjection with willing submission and feel themselves 
subdued  (1917 Maulana Mohammed Ali Translation).

Jizya is the tax levied on Dhimmis by Muslim rulers. A 
Dhimmi is a non-Muslim tolerated under Shari a, Islamic 
rule.

When non-Muslims or a non-Muslim country pays a tribute 
to the Islamic countries, war can be replaced by a temporary 
peace. But if they stop paying the Jizya, (the tax), the jihad 
resumes because jihad is the normal state of relationship 
between the non-Muslim and the Muslim. Those in the early 
growth of Islam that disagreed, that did not want to be 
converted to Islam or to be reduced to slavery, fled to the 
mountains or to other cities. In this era non-Muslims had to 
dress differently (sometime humiliating) when they went out 
in public so that they would not be confused with Muslims. 
Non-Muslims were not allowed to practice their religion in 
public. Those of other religions were not permitted to build 
new synagogues or churches. The Jews could not repair 
their synagogues the Christians their churches and In time 
fall into ruins.

The history of dhimmi, include Jews and Christians are a 
single unit because they are bound together as the People 
of the Book. This phrase the people of the book is used 
several times in the Qu ran. In Sura 5:15:  O people of the 
Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to 
you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over 
much (that is now unnecessary). There hath come to you 
from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book.  Here we 
find that Mohammad s revelation replaces the Old and New 
Testament.

For us to ignore militant Islam s intolerance toward what 
they deem as unbelievers, is a grave and costly mistake. 
There is no middle ground in this kind of jihad, Sura 
9:5,29,41  Slay the idolators [non-Muslims] wherever ye find 
them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and 
prepare for them each ambush. Fight against such of those 
who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah 
nor the last Day . Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, 
and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! 

The Muslim government in Sudan had imposed Islamic law 
in 1993. Over 2 million Sudanese Christians and animists 
have been killed and enslaved since then and few people 
even know about it. For years in Indonesia, the Philippines 
and East Timor, Christians have been massacred by 
Muslims. Coptic Christians in Egypt whose religion arrived 
prior to Islam, have been slaughtered by fundamentalist 
Muslims. The authorities have done little to stop them. Arab 
Christians are oppressed by Muslims in their own lands as 
are Christians in many Arab lands such as Syria, Iraq, and 
Lebanon. Churches and Christian homes in Nigeria are 
being burned and Christians are murdered by militant 
Muslims because they are unbelievers. In Saudi Arabia it is 
illegal to be anything but a Muslim. The death penalty is 
given if one's conscience turns him to another religion, 
especially Christianity. Just recently, a man in China was 
charged with importing Bibles--the punishment for this 
horrible act?--death.

Harvard's Samuel P. Huntington warned us of deluding 
ourselves about the true nature of the Islamic threat.  Some 
have argued that the West does not have problems with 
Islam but only with violent Islamist extremists,  Huntington 
wrote.  Fourteen hundred years of history demonstrate 
otherwise. 

An imam in Gaza earlier this year broadcasted a sermon 
over Palestinian Authority radio calling on Muslims to 
murder Christians and Jews because it is their Islamic duty. 
Broadcasts such as  first we go after the Saturday people 
then the Sunday people  are not uncommon. For it is the 
Koran that says 5:36  The punishment of those who wage 
war against God and His Apostle, and strive with might and 
man for mischief through the land is: execution, or 
crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite 
sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this 
world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.  
So they take a literal interpretation of these verses 
implementing them in their daily lives.

The last hour with the false Christ (Daljal) is an important 
topic in the Hadith as it warns of his coming. According to 
the Bible he will make a peace treaty with Israel. This is 
exactly what this war is about.

Mohammed said,  The last hour will not come before the 
Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them.  (Mishkat 
Al Masabih Sh.M. Ashraf pp.147, 721, 810-11, 1130) It is the 
Hadith that explains the Koran, it is their commentary on the 
writings. Hadith, the body of traditions relating to 
Mohammed and now supplemental to the Koran: He (Abu 
Hurayah) reported the messenger of Allah as saying: The 
last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews 
and the Muslims kill them, so that Jews will hide behind 
stones and trees and the Stone and the tree will say, O 
Muslim, O servant of God! There is a Jew behind me; come 
and kill him. The only exception will be the box-thorn for it is 
one of the trees of the Jews. (Sahih of Muslim, quoted by 
Israel and the Prophecies of Al Koran by Ali Akbar, Bismi 
Publishers 1992, p.44)

What does it mean when Muslims say they are for peace?  
George Braswell, Jr. (B.D., Yale; Ph.D., U of NC) who lived in 
Iran for seven years, defines the word  peace  from a 
Muslim perspective:  The world of Islam must conquer 
and rule over those of ignorance and disobedience . The 
peace of the world cannot be secured until the peoples 
come under the rule and protection of Islam.  (What You 
Need To Know About Islam and Muslims, p. 87)

It is interesting to note the parallels and contradictions 
between what Jesus teaches through the Bible and what 
the Koran teaches through Mohammed. It is impossible for 
both of them to be correct because they contradict each 
other. Furthermore, they are extremely similar with regard to 
the end times. The Bible makes it clear that all the countries 
will gather together against Israel in the latter days and be 
"cut into pieces". The Koran says "the last hour will not 
come before the Muslims kill the Jews". Both sides mention 
the peace agreement with Israel in the end times. According 
to the Bible, that is the beginning of the worst seven year 
period in history. According to the Koran, it will be a time of 
victory and conquest over the Jews. God states through the 
Bible that he will send strong delusion to those who are not 
raptured. Many will believe "the great lie". When millions of 
people suddenly disappear from the earth, Muslims will 
believe that the great Satan (True followers of Christ) has 
been destroyed. They will think Allah has finally judged the 
Jews and Christians and will celebrate, only to find that 
Allah is really Satan and his demonic hosts.

When someone plays the "whore" or "harlot" in the Bible, it 
is referring to spiritual adultery--following a false God. God 
gave us all the ability to reason. He wants to see if we use 
that ability to differentiate between good (Jesus) and evil (all 
others). At first glance, that statement may seem intolerant. 
But Jesus states clearly that if you do not believe that He is 
the Son of God, then you will die in your sins. He is the only 
way to heaven and his invitation is for all people. Most 
people get uncomfortable about having to choose a side, so 
they choose to ignore the issue. Ronald Reagan stated it 
best when he said, "There is no safety in neutrality".  CS 
Lewis made an extremely important observation also in his 
best seller Mere Christianity:  Jesus can only be one of two 
possibilities. He is either the Son of God or the greatest con 
artist who ever lived. THERE IS NO OTHER POSSIBILITY.

                                        

You have to choose and it is the most important choice you 
will ever make. 

Who is Allah?

 

Allah is the name of the only God in Islam. Allah is a 
pre-Islamic name coming from the compound Arabic word 
Al-ilah which means the God, which is derived from the 
word deity. It was also the name of the chief God among the 
numerous idols (360) in the Kaaba in Mecca. Today a 
Muslim is one who submits to the God Allah.

Islam means submission to Allah, but originally it meant 
"strength which characterized a desert warrior who, even 
when faced with impossible odds, would fight to the death 
for his tribe". (Dr. M. Baravmann, The Spiritual Background 
of Early Islam, E. J. Brill, Leiden, 1972)

Many believe the word  Allah  was derived from the 
mid-eastern word  el  which in Ugaritic, Caananite and 
Hebrew can mean a true or false God. 

According to the Encyclopedia of Religion, Allah 
corresponded to the Babylonian god Baal, and Arabs knew 
of him long before Mohammed worshipped him as the 
supreme God. Before Islam, the Arabs recognized many 
gods and goddesses and each tribe had their own deity. 
There were also nature deities. Allah was the god of the 
local Quarish tribe, which was Mohammed's tribe before he 
invented the religion of Islam to lead his people out of their 
polytheism. Allah was then known as the Moon God, who 
had 3 daughters who were viewed as intercessors for the 
people into Allah. Their names were Al-at, Al-uzza, and 
Al-manat, which were three goddesses; the first two 
daughters of Allah had names which were feminine forms 
of Allah. Hubal was the chief God of the Kaaba among the 
other 360 deities. Hubal was a statue likeness of a man 
whose body was made of red precious stones whose arms 
were made of gold. (Reference Islam George Braswell Jr.)

Historians like Vaqqidi have said Allah was actually the chief 
of the 360 gods being worshipped in Arabia at the time 
Mohammed rose to prominence. Ibn Al-Kalbi gave 27 
names of pre-Islamic deities. Interestingly, not many 
Muslims want to accept that Allah was already being 
worshipped at the Kaaba in Mecca by Arab pagans before 
Mohammed came. Some Muslims become angry when they 
are confronted with this fact. But history is not on their side. 
Pre-Islamic literature has proved this.  (G. J. O. Moshay, 
Who Is This Allah? (Dorchester House, Bucks, UK, 1994), 
pg. 138).

History has shown that Mecca and the holy stone al-Kaaba 
were holy sites for pre-Islamic pagan Arabs. The Kaaba in 
Mecca was formerly named Beit-Allah meaning House of 
Allah.

The Koran tells us that Mohammed drove the other idols 
away and that he was the messenger for the one and only 
God. He kept the Kaaba as a holy, sacred place and 
confirmed that the black stone had the power to take away 
sins. He obligated every believer to make a pilgrimage to 
the stone at least once in his lifetime. (Sura 22:26-37) No 
Old Testament saint ever journeyed to the Kaaba and 
kissed its black stone.  Ironically, the Bible uses black 
stones to indicate guilt and white stones to indicate purity 
and innocence:

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the 
churches. To him who conquers I will give some of the 
hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new 
name written on the stone which no one knows except him 
who receives it.  Revelation 2:17

Mohammed used the name Allah which was the name of a 
specific idol without ever distinguishing it from the idol the 
Meccans were already worshipping. This was a 
modification of their former worship but never a complete 
break. He never did direct the people to stop worshipping 
the wrong Allah for the right one.

The addition of the letter T to the end of the name Allah was 
represented by a square black stone that was located in a 
major sanctuary in the city of Taif. This stone represented 
the goddess of fate, a female counterpart of Allah. Al-uzza 
was the goddess of East Mecca. It has been said there 
were human sacrifices made to her and Islamic tradition 
tells of a story of Mohammed s grandfather almost 
sacrificing his son, the father of Mohammed to her. What 
prevented this was his seeking counsel from a fortune teller 
who told him to ransom his son with one hundred camels. 
Muslims look to this as the will of Allah to bring Mohammed 
into existence. (Reference Muhammad husain haykal, Hayat 
Mohammed)

The name Allah, as the Koran itself is witness, was well 
known in pre-Islamic Arabia. Indeed, both it and its feminine 
form, Allat, are found not infrequently among the 
theophorous names in inscriptions from North Africa. (Arthur 
Jeffrey, Islam: Mohammed and His Religion 1958, p. 85.)

The literal name of Mohammed's father in Arabic is Abd 
Allah. His uncle's name Obred Allah. These names show 
the devotion of Mohammed's family's pagan roots and also 
prove that Allah was part of a polytheistic system of worship 
before Allah was made the supreme and only God from the 
other gods. This should be proof to the pre-Islamic root of 
the name of Allah to the Muslim. Remember they were 
pagans who used this name. He kept his family name 
above all other names. 

Mecca was the place where the idol Allah was located, so 
the people would face in that direction when they prayed. 
Prior to Islam the people would pray 5 times a day facing 
Mecca (The Encyclopedia of Islam p.303) and each Arab 
tribe used Allah to refer to its own particular high god. This 
is why Hubal, the Moon god, was the central focus of prayer 
at the Kaaba and people prayed to Hubal while using the 
name Allah. The crescent moon was the symbol of the 
moon God Allah (Hubal) and is still used as a symbol of 
Islam today (although they have changed the meaning to be 
"from Mecca" to the "moon Islam will spread"). Today there 
is hardly a Muslim that knows its ancient origin. History 
records it as an ancient pagan fertility symbol that is found 
throughout the Middle East. Mohammed smashed all the 
idols that led the people into idolatry but the black stone was 
kept which Muslims continue to kiss today. This was 
another practice that preceded Mohammed.

Mohammed made Allah into a single being who, unlike the 
Bible's God, has no son. Because of this portrayal, there is 
no fellowship or love among the godhead before God 
created man. Creation and man therefore become a 
necessity for God to express His attributes or 
characteristics. This God has never revealed Himself to 
man but revealed only His will. This God is so removed from 
man that it is impossible to know him in a personal way. He 
relates to man only through his will and law. 

Of the 99 names of God in Islam, not one is  Father  or has 
a personal connotation. The difference is not to be 
overlooked. The God of the Bible is personal and wants an 
ongoing friendship with each of us. Islam portrays God as 
one who expects us to do our religious duty or He angers. 
There are rules to be obeyed and one can only please him 
but not know him personally. No Muslim would ever 
consider being able to have a personal relationship with 
him by talking to him and loving him. Jesus instead taught 
Christians to pray  our Father in heaven  (Matthew 6:9). 
Throughout the Old Testament God was real to the prophets 
who had him personally speak to them and they to him. 
 Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? 
Why do we deal treacherously with one another by profaning 
the covenant of the fathers?  (Mal 2:10)

Muslims claim that the name Allah can be found in the 
Bible. This is no different than what the Jehovah's 
Witnesses do for the name Jehovah. Allah is not called 
Yahweh once in the Koran but neither is Yahweh called 
Allah in the Bible. So they can't be the same God. Neither is 
the word Elohim which is applied to Yahweh over 2,500 
times in the Bible used in the Koran. Neither is he called I 
Am, which He said to Moses would be His name forever.

The God of the Bible identifies himself as the God of 
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jacob's name is later changed 
to the name Israel, being the father of the 12 tribes of Israel. 
The God of the Bible calls Jerusalem the city of David and 
claims that the Messiah would descend from his lineage. 
The God of the Bible does not mention Mecca or Medina but 
instead Jerusalem 800 times, yet Jerusalem is not 
mentioned in the Koran, which the Muslim claims as their 
own.

Muslims trying to prove their position from the Bible point to 
the Old Testament with the word alleluyah, interpreting the 
first portion of the word alle as Allah. The word [H]alleluyah 
is not a compound Hebrew word. It is not two words but a 
singular word meaning praise to Yahweh. (alle- praise, 
lu-to, yah-Yaweh). The beginning of the word is Hallel 
meaning praise. This has nothing to do with an Allah, and 
the last syllable of the word is a reference to Yahweh the 
God of the Bible--this is hardly evidence for their assertions. 
They are also confusing Aramaic with Arabic. This is not 
unusual, as Muslims will often take words and meanings 
set in another language and culture and adopt them for 
proof of their own book or religion.

This word-play only gets more ludicrous as they claim to 
have Jesus saying the name of their God. When Jesus was 
on the cross they say that when he cried out "Eli, Eli", it was 
really Allah, Allah. The New Testament was written in Greek. 
However it points us to him speaking the Aramaic language, 
not Arabic. Jesus was quoting Psalm 22:1 which when read 
in full says, Eli, Eli Sabbathani  My God, My God why have 
you forsaken me.  What makes even less sense for this 
position is the fact that they don't believe that it was Jesus 
on the cross in the first place, but that another took His 
place. Some think it was Judas. So was it Judas crying out 
Allah, Allah?

The first Arabic translation of the Bible came into existence 
about the 9th century. Nowhere is the name of Allah found 
in the Old or New Testament. When Islam became the 
dominant political force, people were coerced to use the 
name Allah for God or suffer the consequences from the 
hands of militant Muslims. Because of Islam's dominance, 
Allah became the common name of God. The translators of 
the Bible gave in to the religious pressures and substituted 
Allah for Yahweh in the Arabic Bibles, but this is not the 
name of the God of the Hebrews, nor of the Creator who 
made heaven and earth. His nature and attributes have only 
a few basic similarities, yet far more differences.


============

The Start of the Conflict





THE heart of the current issue of the conflict between Arabs 
and Jews and Christians goes back to the time of God's 
covenant with Abraham.  The media outlets try to figure out 
the conflicts by tracing events back just 10-20 years when 
the events should be traced back to the beginning. It is 
impossible to understand unless this is done. 

Interestingly, the Arabs, Christians, and Jews include 
Abraham as a main source to the foundation of their beliefs. 
Why would this be? The Bible tells us that Abraham was a 
just man who feared God. Fearing the Lord is absolutely 
essential to life:

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of